Rossi-Blog Comment Discussion

Google helps, Source unfortunately in German...but a laughable deja-vu back in 2012, an Ecat meeting in Switzerland, with product announcements, robotic manufacturing, presentations, etc... the full package.

http://www.borderlands.de/Links/NET0712S30-33.pdf

He is/was technical expert from (former?) Ecat Australia, probably holding Rossi’s license as local distributor....

Seems no one needs or wants these fabulous E Cat products, since years...so many companies who do offer Rossi’s stuff, in addition to Leonardo. 10kw home heaters, produced by the millions with robots, available from 2013... doesn’t this ring a bell?

Quote

He is/was technical expert from (former?) Ecat Australia, probably holding Rossi’s license as local distributor....

Roger Green was selling all sorts of rights to areas and countries other than N America and Europe. I wonder if anyone got their money back. Mr. Green has many energy ... uh... schemes.

This below was in 2012!

http://energycatalyzer3.com/ne…alia-stirs-up-controversy

Meanwhile, on JONP:

Dott. Rossi is just producing "heat" and can't give IMHO any logical answer to this question, asked several times in the past.

Plug out from mains, to self-power the cat from it's own claimed produced energy, which could be gained from heat to electric power conversion and storage with existing technology, eg. Seeback/Peltier and custom acculmulators.

Raise the COP to infinity ....

He can't see the point

He just makes heat ....

(emphasis added)

• Steven N. Karels
  June 27, 2018 at 4:53 AM

  Dear Andrea Rossi,

  You posted “As I always said, an external power source is necessary and to measure its consume is always possible.”

  Yes, you have been consistent in your statement to that effect. However, there are repeated questions by different people as to why a self-contained eCat electrical power generation is not possible.

  In the past you have suggested that a safety requirement is what precludes the possibility. That it might be possible for an eCat feeding its own power back to itself could become unstable in its operation, and shut-down.

  I believe what you should explain, if you can do so without revealing confidential information, is why an eCat connected to an electrical generator of some type, could not siphon a small portion of the produced electrical energy into a storage medium (e.g. a battery or thermal storage unit) and then convert the stored energy back into electrical energy to supply the input to the eCat. The capacity of the storage unit could be so great as to isolate the output and input to an effective very long time constant, thus assuring stability.

  When the effective COP was 6 (many years ago), I could reason that system efficiencies could preclude that configuration. However, with reported COPs above 100, it seems that reason is no longer valid. Please clarify.

• Andrea Rossi
  June 27, 2018 at 6:38 AM
  Steven N.Karels:
  We cannot make a closed circuit with all the safety system and have not experience so far in the matter. So far we just make heat. Possibly in future the situation will change. Honestly, I do not see the point, though.
  Warm Regards,
  A.R.

• Gennady June 27, 2018 at 6:17 PM

  Dear Andrea Rossi,

  I saw the discussion and your answers regarding closing loop in the eCat by bringing some of the heat produced as an input into eCat.
  I spoke about it with my wife who is a mechanical engineer and designed largest power and cogeneration stations from LA to Buenos Aires to Taipei and Tokyo. She told me that there is always a way to route part of the heat produced to various parts of the system. Can you elaborate on what prevents eCat to do the same?
  Kind Regards,Gennady

• Andrea Rossi June 27, 2018 at 6:28 PM

  Gennady:

  Probably there is a misunderstanding: we produce heat, not electricity and the Ecat needs an external source of electricity, not heat.

  Warm Regards,

  A.R.

• Steven N. Karels June 28, 2018 at 4:54 AM

  Dear Andrea Rossi,

  You posted “Honestly, I do not see the point, though.” to a question about closed loop electrical generation.

  I was around for the 1965 electrical power outage. The electrical generation plants had no means of starting up from a cold start without externally supplied electricity. When the entire electrical grid was down, they could not restart.

  If you are going to design or integrate your system into an electrical generation plant (in the future or now), don’t forget the lessons learned from the past.

  You mentioned again the safety issue. It seems like a Red Herring issue to me. Are you saying there is an intrinsic problem with the eCat technology that precludes it from operating from the power it generates (heat or electricity)?

  What about an eCat powered jet aircraft using eCat technology to produce the heat for the jet engines? In that application, the aircraft generators are powered from the jet engines. The aircraft electrical power comes from the jet engines and, conceivably, would control the eCat operation. In that class of applications, you will need to be isolated from the national electrical grid (or have a very long power cord – LOL). Same issue associated with marine propulsion. I think this a valid issue and should not be so easily dismissed by the wave of the hand and saying it is a “safety issue”.

• Andrea Rossi
  June 28, 2018 at 7:18 AM

  Steven N.Karels:

  The external source of electric power can be a series of batteries.

  In case of internet blackout a backup energy generator is fundamental.

  Warm Regards,

  A.R.

I believe Adrian is just arguing for the sake of arguing, or he is just pulling our legs. He can't say in one breath he hasn't made up his mind yet about Rossi, and in the next sentence that the commercial QX is "ready" and point to the ECW world posts as evidence. He won't answer any question that would prove incompetence (ex. my question if the 1 ohm resistor test really showed anything). He isn't really incompetent. He is just a debater for fun, and he is a master.

I would contend that a "master debater" would be competent at defending his side of the argument. Adrian does not even try. He just name calls and says "wait and see". That ain't debating.

Here's a little babble for Adrian.

Rossi wrote:

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Probably there is a misunderstanding: we produce heat, not electricity and the Ecat needs an external source of electricity, not heat.

This part: "the ecat needs an external source of electricity, not heat." So what does Rossi do with the electricity?

This is a 2011-2012 ecat. The electricity energizes one large band heater around the cooling water jacket (!) while a rod heater (pipe fitting with wires emerging on the left end) goes right through the center, So Rossi converts virtually all the electricity to heat. Nobody will begrudge him some flea power level electrical source for control electronics. These days, control circuits can run days on a few "D" batteries. So let him output kilowatts for a few days with D batteries as the only power. Hey, why not if he told the truth? Anybody see how weirdly the original ecats were set up? The only thing the largest heater heated was the cooling jacket! And all that precious electricity Rossi said his ecat needed was... converted to heat that Rossi said he couldn't use.

Get it Adrian?

Quote from interested observer

I would contend that a "master debater" would be competent at defending his side of the argument. Adrian does not even try. He just name calls and says "wait and see". That ain't debating.

Adrian's posts here sustain what little debate there still is by being masterpieces of what I'd call "grumpy fairminded rhetoric".

Thus: he tries to hold a simple position of giving everyone (in this case the noble inventor Rossi) a fair chance and not jumping to conclusions, while also expressing his annoyance at those with contrary views. Whereas in general those with contrary views are very happy to have Adrian post here for the reasons that have been expressed above.

It is pretty difficult to hold Adrian's position unless like Sam one is determined not to evaluate technical issues and take hope from the fact that clever people support Rossi. An undeniable and interesting fact - but then the internet is a very big place and small corners of it like ECW are so very highly selective - you can find clever people to take almost any position on anything. ECW - unlike this place - has the quality of being selective on views expressed. If you express arguments that Rossi has lied, or has no evidence for his devices working, or make technical arguments against the validity of Rossi demos, you get banned. Forever.

SOT wrote: "...This part: "the ecat needs an external source of electricity, not heat." So what does Rossi do with the electricity?"

Maybe producing heat? This is what the Ecat is all about...

A pic from the old days in Italy show in addition a nice large diesel generator sitting somewhere for delivering "elcetricity"...batteries may not be strong enough to operate the Ecat in SSM...

Quote from seven_of_twenty

BTW, Captain Obvious told me that heat is not like electricity in any way-- transport, metering, regulation, etc. etc. Does anybody sell heat to the general public in large quantities now? Guess why.

Con Edison sells heat in large quantities. So do other power companies in densely populated urban areas. Originally it was waste heat from generators but nowadays they also sell steam generated directly.

From time to time you see steam escaping from under streets in New York, Washington DC and other urban areas. That's from the heat distribution network. The General Services Admin. in DC has a large network. In 2004 one of the pipes under 17th street exploded, killing two people.

Such networks are common in Russia and northern Europe, and in places like college campuses such as Cornell.