Rossi-Blog Comment Discussion

  • Yes, and if it is run long enough so that we can rule out chemistry-

    say >50 MJ/ kg for the entire system mass calculated from the integrated

    amounts.

  • Your comment has me very confused. Just above you said, and I quote: "There is a good chance he will demonstrate the QX live as he now has a commercial unit." (emphasis added) Yet you now say in response to my question whether or not you had seen, personally, said commercial unit, "No. Obviously not as there hasn't been a "commercial" version yet."

    You get confused easily. Rossi says he now has a tested commercial version of the QX, but it has not yet been shown in public. I give Rossi the benefit of the doubt until more is known. I will not believe it until it has been shown.

    If he has a commercial version of the QX it should be relatively simple to demonstrate it as a black box in January.


    The answer to all your listed questions is no except #6 which is yes. Anyone who has been following what I previously wrote would know the answers already. As usual, a one word answer leaves out important information. For example, there is sufficient public evidence to back up my claim Rossi could have retired. He could even have done so when he sold his biofuel engine business.

  • Rossi could have retired years ago but he hasn't.

    If he is a con man who is he trying to defraud?


    This is one of the key questions that makes Rossi of interest to Rossi-watchers. His deceptive actions have been magnificently (sic) self-serving - in a material sense - from the money he has extracted from license-holders and then IH. Yet, when ahead he continues to play his game. Why?


    It is not so surprising. Rossi's career includes a fair dose of self-delusion, particularly in the area of technical fact. Exactly how much is a matter of debate amongst Rossi-watchers. Does he believe his stuff works whilst also justifying to himself the many many deceptions he makes? Or is he, as you suggest, an out and out con-man.


    You can't buy shares and his new customers would just pay for the heat they received.


    We have no idea of in what way Rossi might extract money from prospective "customers". He managed to get $10M from IH before anteing up. And they knew he could not be trusted. The possibility that even so he might have something, and backing from apparently competent academics now known to have been grievously incompetent, did that. Why not more of the same? Sam here, and you, are not unique. You rate Rossi positive on what to most observers is very negative evidence. Given a Rossi offer, if rational in other ways, and with money to spare, you would take a risk for the possible very large returns.


    They are not buying reactors that don't work.


    Rossi's past is littered with customers buying reactors that don't work. Look at IH. How many of the customers are real, and how many Rossi referring to himself as a third person, we do not know.


    If he is doing what he says he must have a partner financing it. With all the negative publicity said partner must be looking at what Rossi has produced very carefully.


    Rossi has $10M + (we know, from his condo empire in Florida). He can fund himself for a fair amount of time, hoping to net another fish. Anyway fools will always exist, and can always be parted with their money. For evidence of the first part look at you and Sam, seemingly able to discount the nagative publicity. Why suppose yourselves the only people who can do this?


    They are in a far better position to judge that than the armchair babblers here.


    that was the argument long made about IH. It proved untrue. And IH were credible investors, we do not know Rossi has any customers now, let alone credible ones.


    I hope he will show a black box demo in January where just the input power and output heat are carefully measured. No that that would convince the critics of course. Not that long to wait for new evidence.


    You are making assumptions that critics, like you, ignore evidence. I don't think you have grounds for this.

  • The main assumption is that Rossi is in it mostly for the money.

    Ego stoking, IMHO, is his primary driver, and money, real estate, and Cadillacs help that along.

    He is rich, envied by many, holds the future of humanity in his hands, is highly intelligent, inventive, has factories, giant manufacturing firms and rich capitalists say "how high" when he says "jump", and physicists and lovely ladies hang on his every word.

  • This is one of the key questions

    At last you tried to answer the points I made. The babblers couldn't answer the question of who he is now supposed to be defrauding. I didn't think yours held water.


    You are also probably wrong about the numbers for and against Rossi. There are only a dozen here and many more that do support him on ECW. Academia is another story. They got it wrong about Fleischmann and Pons and it is a disgrace.


  • If he can demonstrate an ability to deliver heat at a price per kWH significantly lower than a business can generate from the grid there will be many customers. Most would start with a trial on a non critical part of the production line. If it turns out they don't save any money his plant will be kicked out the door pdq.

  • If he can demonstrate an ability to deliver heat at a price per kWH significantly lower than a business can generate from the grid there will be many customers. Most would start with a trial on a non critical part of the production line. If it turns out they don't save any money his plant will be kicked out the door pdq.

    ...

    ..

    .


    And that's why ONLY HE AND HIS TEAM will be allowed to have access. As it already seems, Rossi and his "team" has a lot of experience with fraudulent actions. So they will surely cover any evidence, that their reactor does not produce, what he claims. And being the only one having access to the reactor, they will surely falsify all data they can ....

  • Is useful advanced LENR energy technology emergent along a few fronts?

    It seems so. (I believe so)

    Might Rossi be one?

    I expect so.

    Expect

    Regard (something) as likely to happen.

    "We expect the best"

    Regard (someone) as likely to do or be something.

    Believe that (someone or something) will arrive soon.

  • Believe that (someone or something) will arrive soon.


    Many of us have been waiting and believing and hoping that LENR would arrive soon.

    Jed Rothwell for instance.

    Many of us on LENR Forum and ECat World were initially made aware of "important developments" in the field by the Rossi/IH fiasco.

    And after watching and waiting several years - so far nothing of substance. So we keep watching, but in the meantime we have the Rossi show to entertain us.


    There presumably must be a type of cognitive bias whereby people want something, or want to believe something, despite the lack of evidence. And so they go looking and “find” the evidence. Especially if they go looking with likeminded people.

    Take the whole Sasquatch thing. There have been a number of television series all based on looking for something that logic and lack of firm evidence dictates does not exist. No Sasquatch yet interviewed on television. Sometimes lack of evidence is itself evidence. And yet the believers find enough shadows, marks on the ground, sketchy eyewitness reports etc to convince themselves to keep going.


    In LENR there is certainly the odd report of developments from GEC, IH, Brillouin etc, just enough to keep the followers interested, but so far no commercial LENR reactor.

    Now, of course, Jed would say LENR has been replicated convincingly.

    And on the other side of the coin it is also true that sometimes science can benefit from stubborn minded people who keep going when all others have given up the search.


    So which side of the coin is LENR, science or fantasy? That's why we are here I guess.

  • Ok, Sam. Your answer to whether you think the Stockholm gizmo looked like a commercializable device is that Rossi says it is. And your answer to what it is good for makes no reference to what it even does apart from "making heat". To put it simply, it is clear that your confidence has no basis in any analysis or thought. It is pure faith. Good luck with that!

    I do have faith in Rossi.I will have a lot of faith if he gets product to market and

    has satisfied customers.

    1. Frank Acland July 12, 2018 at 4:46 PM

      Dear Andrea,

      If the SK is not ready, is the QX ready?

      Many thanks,

      Frank Acland

    2. Andrea Rossi July 13, 2018 at 2:44 AM

      Frank Acland:

      Yes. The QX is ready, the SK not yet. But we are working hard on it.

      Warm Regards,

      A.R.

  • Yes, and if it is run long enough so that we can rule out chemistry-

    say >50 MJ/ kg for the entire system mass calculated from the integrated

    amounts.


    But don't forget...


    50 MJ/kg = 50 kJ/g


    So if you have a 2 gram sample, that means you produced 100 kJ.


    Now 1 J/s = 1W, so if you were seeing a 1W excess heat, that would require 100,000 seconds = 27.8 hrs. So, if you ran longer, you'd get an even bigger 'energy density'.


    But 1W is of the same size as the calorimeter errors coming from CCS/ATER. You would need to assure yourself your 1W 'signal' was actually a signal.


    Bottom line: Integrating an error gives a bigger error, not a discovery.

  • Don't forget I said the mass of the entire system not just the sample size.

  • And that's why ONLY HE AND HIS TEAM will be allowed to have access. As it already seems, Rossi and his "team" has a lot of experience with fraudulent actions. So they will surely cover any evidence, that their reactor does not produce, what he claims. And being the only one having access to the reactor, they will surely falsify all data they can ....

    This should be framed and hung on the wall of every babbler.

    It outlines how Rossi cab sell energy at a loss, using reactors that don't work, and so defraud his customers.

    Priceless.

  • Many of us have been waiting and believing and hoping that LENR would arrive soon.

    You don't have to believe anything and yet be interested in following LENR.

    The babblers think Rossi is guilty until proven innocent and also that that is impossible. It is not a logical position.


    The believers think Rossi is innocent until proven guilty, but in general lack the experience to know how long it will take to reach the market. As a result, they become disillusioned.


    There is sufficient evidence that LENR has been demonstrated at low COPs to remove reasonable doubt that the process is possible. A commercial LENR reactor has yet to be demonstrated and is required for the process to meet general acceptance.


    The best approach is to wait for more evidence and not jump to conclusions.

  • Can I add the "pathological believer” definition?

    Something like... someone that after 10 years of unfulfilled promises still believes and support any Rossi's says.


    Any news about "robotized factories" already built or under construction, an empty promise I find (every year) from 2012 ?

  • This should be framed and hung on the wall of every babbler.

    It outlines how Rossi cab sell energy at a loss, using reactors that don't work, and so defraud his customers.

    Priceless.

    Adrian,

    You either refuse to acknowledge what is clear to most people and history has proven, or you are incapable.


    You keep saying Rossi cannot sell heat at a loss and that this proves he is not scamming and a fraud.


    Rossi / JM "PAID" IH $1000 per day for heat during Doral for the non-existent factory making non-existent product. That totaled over $360,000 dollars. He was attempting to get 89 MILLION MORE via the scam. That is 237 times MORE than his "loss" of paying for non-existent heat.


    You take every word of Rossi's as not only true, but COMPLETE. Rossi can say he is selling heat, but he will have a contract for big $$$ once the "customer" thinks there is a working reactor. JUST LIKE HE DID AT DORAL. Fake it working then sell the proverbial "IP" for big dollars.


    Rossi will NEVER simply sell heat to a publicly known company. He will simply run his Doral scam all over again!


    You seem to think this impossible? You think his Skat Cat works! If you had several million dollars laying around, Rossi would be knocking at your door!


    Scammers abound. They run the same scam over and over again, even though it has been exposed in the news. This is no different.


    You believe that when Rossi says he will sell heat, he will do it publicly and open??? No, it will be just like Doral. I can guarantee you his new customer will not only be kept secret (like everything Rossi), but they will be tied to purchasing "IP".


    THAT is how he plans to make big bucks again. Remember, he already made 11 MILLION dollars off this scam and is looking to do it again.


    It is not that hard for most "babblers" to understand. I guess some faithful are much more enlightened. By the way, this "babbler" has a London Bridge in London to sell you!

    :thumbup:

  • I for one am looking forward to seeing what Rossi has up his sleeve. He seldom disappoints. I suspect his friend (Giovanni?) from the old country, who helped him set up JMP, is helping him set up a *customer* scenario. Probably scheming right now to make it look legitimate. I do not think it will be nearly the scale of deceit as Doral though. But I suspect it will be more complicated than the Stockholm QX DPS, since there is a customer involved.

  • Dewey Weawer just a question...


    can you explain me in simply words why TD accepted to close the lawsuit in that way (leaving to him a lot of money) instead of put this man in front of US justice for all those falsehood and deceptions you quoted, having already in hand all necessary evidences?


    Immediately after I would have sued him in court for fraud, damages...

  • Quote

    It is not so surprising. Rossi's career includes a fair dose of self-delusion

    Emphatically disagree. Rossi's misdirection and his pretend fury when a correct measurement or calibration is performed or proposed suggest strongly that his mismeasurements are deliberate, calculated and almost certainly pre-tested extensively in his "factory." Deluded people don't do that. Nothing suggests that Rossi is sincere in the slightest. He keeps going because like most con men, he thinks people will be so dumb, he can continue to fool them indefinitely. This, by the way, is what gets con men caught, for example Madoff and more recently, Elizabeth Holmes, the conwoman who ran Theranos, a thoroughgoing high tech con vastly larger than Rossi for those for whom size matters.

  • its better than that. R begged IH to invoice JM for the "heat". TD refused to do so and, intentionally, not a dime was exchanged for anything there.

    From what I've read, TD knew that the Johnson Matthey deal had not materialized. Further, he stated he didn't care if the generated heat was simply dumped. The main interest was whether the plant actually performed.


    It seems that IH were enthusiastic about the 1 MW plant when woodford visited and as they got ~$49 million as a result it is not clear they lost money on the whole deal.

  • Rossi / JM "PAID" IH $1000 per day for heat during Doral for the non-existent factory making non-existent product. That totaled over $360,000 dollars.

    I did not read the legal testimony carefully, but I do not think he paid them. I believe he offered to pay them. He asked them to invoice him. But they refused. By that time they did not believe his claims.


    EDIT: Ah. I see Dewey Weaver confirmed my impression.


    It was a non-existant factory run by a non-existant shell company, which was owned by Rossi himself. That part I read carefully enough to be sure of.


    (Mostly I read the technical documents.)

  • Dewey Weawer just a question...


    can you explain me in simply words why TD accepted to close the lawsuit in that way (leaving to him a lot of money)

    I do not speak for I.H. or Dewey, but my impression from various lawyers is: this would be like trying to squeeze blood from a turnip. Pursuing this kind of lawsuit is incredibly expensive. Lawyers unrelated to I.H. tell me it is far more expensive than I imagined. There would be no point to spending millions to recover hundreds of thousands.


    It would be good if the government went after Rossi for criminal fraud, but unfortunately, I read that criminal fraud is so widespread this is only a minor case and they probably won't bother. The government goes after people who bilk the government itself for hundreds of millions in things like medicare scams, or people who steal hundreds of millions from banks. A few million is not enough to make it worth their while. That's appalling, but that's what I read. It seems crime does pay.

  • I can understand your point of view but IH was already paying money to their attorneys, they paid attorneys for one year minimum.

    During that time period TD could have sued the "great inventor" for fraud, immediately starting at least from the beginning of lawsuit (it was April 2016) and I believe that 11 M$ (dozen of appartments, villas... to be seized ) were not a value of only hundreds of thousands of dollars, gaining also the powerful image of a business man that never can be screwed in affairs.


    P.S.

    Obviously donations already giveaway by the Miami "donor" in order to cure the cancer of childs, it would been kept saved.

  • The babblers think Rossi is guilty until proven innocent and also that that is impossible. It is not a logical position.


    Perhaps your confusion here is that you do not understand weight of (inductive) evidence, and the importance of induction in reasoning (and particularly scientific reasoning). There is copious evidence to show Rossi a fraud, and that many of his claimed working devices do not work. Logically, within a deductive framework, it is still possible that some devices do work - though in that case Rossi has been very careless in not showing them to people who could properly validate. In fact you can never prove Rossi's devices don't sometimes work, obviously. I predict that you will always stay in a state of deductive uncertainty and therefore (for reasons that are less clear to me) support Rossi.


    Most people go by induction - extrapolating from known evidence. By that measure Rossi has all the cards stacked against him, ticks every box (including past history) for a vapourware merchant. Ignoring such abundant evidence means you get a false "I don't know" conclusion. That is bad reasoning. Taking past evidence into account, because many different strands point the same way, you get a very low but technically finite chance that some of Rossi's devices work. Though it would require real contortions to fit his maze of reversals and moving goal posts into a scemario where basically his stuff works.


    The believers think Rossi is innocent until proven guilty, but in general lack the experience to know how long it will take to reach the market. As a result, they become disillusioned.


    That is however not good reasoning, and not good inductive logic. Why suppose without evidence that somone has a world-beating invention which is still 7 years after first demo unproven, when they have shown themselves to be a liar, delivered provably non-working machines to IH masquerading as working due to a measurement error, etc, etc? I find it really difficult to follow believers on this one.