Rossi-Blog Comment Discussion

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Anyhow, did we ever get to the bottom of what the "COP" of the device at Stockholm demo

I think Rossi recoils at any mention of cops. He must think they're after him.

Jed, good effort but a waste if addressed mainly to @Adrian Ashfield .

Anyway, how many blatant and deliberate falsehoods do you need to see before you no longer believe someone? With Rossi, I reached that mark with the November 2011 ridiculous farce with the guests, including the AP reporter, being shown nothing believable and of course, the silly caricature of a customer representative in the form of the actor playing a NATO colonel (ROTFWL).

Quote from Adrian Ashfield

Jed, I doubt you could support 20 lies , let alone 200.

No - Jed is naturally truthful. Can be mistaken, and tenaciously hold onto mistakes, but never deceitful.

Rossi, OTOH, can and does support very many lies as has been demonstrated by multiple posters.

Adrian: rationally anyone thinking it likely Rossi has what he claims must incorporate into their views the fact that has habitually and repeatedly lied about his setups. He does this without seeming to notice, even when statements one week and the next contradict each other. And the IH contract, when he was involved with serious people who cared about what he said and remembered it, resulted in very many lies of a non-trivial sort as Jed and others documented above.

i'd dearly like to understand how you rationalise this quite extreme propensity for deceit with your trusting Rossi's word in blogs over Darden's sworn testimony for Court discovery. It is a very glaring failure in your arguments.

Quote from THHuxleynew

Adrian: rationally anyone thinking it likely Rossi has what he claims must incorporate into their views the fact that has habitually and repeatedly lied about his setups. He does this without seeming to notice, even when statements one week and the next contradict each other.

I agree. This does not absolutely rule out the possibility that Rossi's claims are correct. However, it does mean that we must see independent verification followed by replication before we believe them. What Rossi himself says has no credibility. He lies about technical issues, legal issues, about himself and other people (about me in one instance), and just about anything else. He lies even when it does not benefit him to lie, which I believe is a sign of pathology, rather than simply exploitation or a strategy to commit fraud.

Rossi's personality faults and his extreme tendency to lie does not absolutely rule out his claims. There have been rare instances of people like him who made valid scientific claims. Perhaps the most extreme example, and one of the most famous ones, was Robert Stroud, the so-called birdman of Alcatraz. He was a homicidal lunatic. He once killed someone in the prison, in full view of the guards and other prisoners. I gather he was also an extravagant liar. Yet despite his extreme personality, he was also a first-rate naturalist and scientist. His books such as "Digest on the Diseases of Birds" were first published in the 1930s, and they are still in print. Not because of his notoriety but because they are valuable. A 4-star review at Amazon says: "Although written a long time ago most of the observations are still relevant today and I use it often as a reference."

Quote from Adrian Ashfield

Jed , I only read the first half dozen and dispute all of them. You assume that everything Rossi says is a lie and that is the basis for your proof.

That is incorrect. I know for a fact that all of those statements are lies because I read the report and I saw some additional information that was not published. That is how I know, for example, that he claimed the machine was producing heat on days when his log shows it was turned off. If that is not a lie, what would be?

You can easily confirm that most of my statements are true. Rossi has inadvertently given you all the evidence you need. You will refuse to look at it -- but you could look if you wanted to. As I said, anyone who glances at the photos taken by Rossi and published here can see that several of his statements are lies. That cannot be a closed loop system. It cannot be airtight. Anyone who looks at the equipment specifications published by Rossi can see that the choice of flow meter is absurd, despite what he said. Anyone who looks at the numbers in the Penon report can see they are fabricated. You do not need me to prove anything. Rossi's own data and photos prove he is a liar.

You can also apply common sense. A heat exchanger capable of removing 1 MW of heat is about the size and weight of an automobile. It can only be installed outdoors. If you put one in the mezzanine, the mezzanine would collapse, and it would defeat the purpose in any case, because the heat would stay in the building. Blowers in the windows capable of removing 1 MW would be far larger than those windows. You can easily confirm this by looking at the specifications and photos of 1 MW capacity cooling equipment.

Quote from Alan Smith

We've been here before Jed. A big truck engine like a Mack 8HE is good for 500hp. That means the radiator will need to dispose of close to 1MW at times. And while it is a big radiator, it doesn't weigh as much as an automobile. Or even a Harley.

On the other hand, the commercial cooling towers I looked up with 1-MW capacity, designed for things like carpet mills, were the size of automobiles. And the cooling fans on a 1-MW transformer at a shopping mall near my house is about the size of an automobile. It is far too large and heavy for that mezzanine, and the fans are far larger than the windows. So, I think it depends on how much heat you need to remove, and where you are removing it to. A Mack 8HE truck does not have to cool down the radiator water so much that it can be used in a carpet factory machine. The cooling water and the engine can remain quite hot. If you left an object the size of a Mack 8HE truck engine in a closed space such as Rossi's factory, I expect the waste heat from it would kill everyone in the building, even if the radiator and fan blew most of the heat out through a window. Perhaps not if they left the loading bay doors wide open, but the doors were closed.

You can run carpet factory machinery in a closed space, I assume because the cooling towers remove a lot more heat than the Mack truck fan and radiator.

Here is a cooling tower with 117 to 390 tons of cooling power. That's 400 to 1.3 MW. I don't see the size specs, but it is about the size of a car. The access doors are 30" x 42". You could not install this in the mezzanine.

https://www.lenntech.com/Data-sheets/Marley-AV-10-L.pdf

Quote from THHuxleynew

Jed is naturally truthful.

Quote from JedRothwell

Shanahan are crackpots

Really THH?

Regarding that Marley AV-10 cooling tower, however big it is, is it bigger than a breadbox . . . much bigger than anything you could haul up the mezzanine stairs. Not only that but I doubt that Rossi could design something like this, and have it constructed and installed by pick-up labor in a short time, as he claims. If he managed to install it, it could not be removed overnight.

The point is, this is a 1-MW heat exchanger. This is what a heat exchanger looks like. They are installed outdoors, not in a mezzanine. I think this brochure alone should be enough to convince a sensible person that Rossi was lying about the heat exchanger.

Even if Alan Smith is correct, and this thing could be roughly the size of a Mack truck radiator and fan, I doubt that Rossi could invent a homemade version of that, build it overnight with unskilled pickup labor, and then remove it overnight. I doubt he could put it in the mezzanine. Look at the photos of mezzanine and the stairs leading to it, and you will see why I doubt that. Whereas Adrian Ashfield apparently believes Rossi did all of that, and there is no reason to suspect he is lying about it.

Quote from kirkshanahan

[Jed is naturally truthful.]

[Shanahan are crackpots]

Really THH?

Yes. I sincerely, truly and with all my heart believe that people like you, who claim that a 1-liter object remains hot for three days, are crackpots. I may be wrong, but I am sincere, and I am telling the truth when I say you and Morrison are crackpots. Morrison was ignorant of the most basic scientific principles, such as the difference between power and energy. See the introduction here, p. 6 and 7:

http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/Fleischmanlettersfroa.pdf

Either you and Morrison are crackpots, or you are trolling us, and trying to convince people of nonsensical claims. Why you would do that, I cannot say. It is impossible for me to tell the difference between a crackpot who actually believes such things, and a troll who says them to make trouble and confuse the issue. The two types seem functionally equivalent.

Perhaps you do not understand the difference between "naturally truthful" and "naturally amiable." No one would say I am amiable. But I would only be lying (untruthful) if I did not actually believe you are a crackpot. That is, if I secretly agreed with you & Morrison.

I'm just now catching up on the E cat QX from Nov. 2017. This demonstration looks pretty hoaky to me. Rossi's black box is evidently drawing enough power to account for all of the measured "LENR" power. If the black box is sending high voltage pulses of, say, 2ns width to the reactor, who would notice? The oscilloscope has only 50 MHz bandwidth. The plasma most likely presents a complex and frequency dependent impedance, but it might present significant resistance at just these high frequencies, so as to be able to absorb 71W from the black box. When it sees a predominantly resistive load in the comparison test, the black box could stop producing such pulses. With the instrumentation shown, Rossi may not even know how his black box really behaves. I want to see (filtered!) AC power in to the black box minus its measured dissipation compared to power out from the reactor; anything else can easily be a hat trick.

Maybe a Mack Truck's radiator would need to be a little bigger if the engine was passing it steam rather than water? But anyway, didn't Rossi and some guy called Professor Wang (?) enter into the court record a scheme that involved a large number of 150mm dia. pipes pipes welded together?

I love Lewan's figure/circuit diagram in the image provided by @hunter above. How difficult would it have been for Rossi to put a voltmeter across the one ohm resistor? From grade school physics/electricity, that would measure the current in the circuit and assuming the resistor was accurately 1 ohm, the power dissipated in it. But naturally, Rossi did not allow or do that. The claim that to do it might reveal IP is ridiculous. If there was a problem with showing waveforms, which is extremely doubtful, the voltmeter input and/or output could have been suitably averaged or filtered. Lewan's failure to ask Rossi in public why this was not done and to insist on a meaningful reply is inexplicable (though I expect Ascoli65 to profer a reason). Surely, Lewan knows Ohm's law and the simple power rule!

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I gather he [Stroud]was also an extravagant liar.

You can't assume that without other facts in evidence. The man may be violent but truthful. And it is pretty clear he didn't lie about birds, his work, anyway. Rossi lied about essentially everything regarding his work including the lies about his past accomplishments and a portion of his education (remember Kensington College?). And these were self-serving lies. You can not assume Rossi is telling the truth about anything and in the end, there is little to suggest one can put hydrogen and nickel and whatever else was in Rossi's soup, together to make copious amounts of energy from fission or fission-like processes. There is nothing to suggest Rossi is anything but a liar.

Quote from seven_of_twenty

[I gather he [Stroud]was also an extravagant liar.]

You can't assume that without other facts in evidence.

I did not assume it. I gather that is the case. "Gather" means that's what I have heard. I read that in a short biography and in a review of Stroud's autobiography, which was published recently, long after he died. It is titled "Looking Outward: A Voice from the Grave."

Apparently Stroud lied about personal matters, but not about birds. I think many scientists, programmers and engineers are honest about their subject matter, but dishonest about other things. You can't function as a scientist otherwise. They are likely to catch you and disbar you -- or whatever it is called. Tear off your insignia and break your sword. Take away your wooden pointer.

It is true that Rossi also lies about his subject matter, which is different from Stroud. That is why I say we must have independent verification of Rossi. Whereas, you could believe Stroud's textbooks even without peer review or verification. He was -- and deserved to be -- a trusted authority.

Quote from Zeus46

Maybe a Mack Truck's radiator would need to be a little bigger if the engine was passing it steam rather than water?

I do not know a thing about Mack trucks. And I don't know much about cooling towers. But I have seen them and asked the people at the factory what the capacity is. The one in the brochure is a typical 1-MW capacity is. I do not know how heavy they are, but they are about the size of my car, upended.

The model shown in the brochure ranges from 117 to 390 "tons." Apparently this means it it removes enough heat to melt that much ice. See:

https://www.energyvanguard.com…Capacity-Measured-in-Tons

I looked up the conversion factor and came up with 400 to 1.3 MW. I hope that's right.

I suppose there are various models and extra fans to go from 400 to 1.3 MW, but they are all the Marley AV-10 series. There are lots of others shown at that web site. I just looked for one that seemed about the size of the 1-MW one I saw.

You never put one of these inside a building. The fan points up. Does anyone think Rossi mounted it sideways, with the fan pointing out? I'll bet a lot of heat radiates out of the body, anyway. These go outside, like an air conditioner outside unit. However, I saw a swank resort hotel with a giant HVAC cooler hidden in a sort of fake upper floor. So the guests wouldn't see it? Everything in these resort hotels seems fake to me. And pretentious. I would estimate it was a few hundred kilowatts, based on the size of the building. It was behind a gigantic grill maybe 10' x 20' with steel bars disguised as wood -- fake again. It made a lot of real noise. Obviously a huge external unit for an air conditioner. If they wanted real class and quiet, they would have used a ground cooling unit, or water cooling. It is right on the Atlantic Ocean, which is a large heat sink. Maybe there are regs against that?

Quote from seven_of_twenty

Lewan's failure to ask Rossi in public why this was not done and to insist on a meaningful reply is inexplicable (though I expect Ascoli65to profer a reason). Surely, Lewan knows Ohm's law and the simple power rule!

Sincerely I'm not interested neither in the Stockholm demo, nor in the role of Lewan in the Ecat affair. I'm more interested in understanding the sources of the public credulity in the Ecat. Lewan is not a main source of such credulity, he is just a scientific journalist, not an authoritative academician. He witnessed some tests in 2011, and described them in as many reports that were quite well documented, even if their conclusions were completely wrong. But I don't think that the people who believed for a while, or even until today, that the Ecat was able to produce XH, had been convinced by Lewan and his reports.

The notoriety of Rossi and the Ecat ramped up at the beginning of 2011 thanks to the three first tests carried out and publicized by UniBo professors, as well as to the fourth test witnessed and documented by Essen and Kullander. Those professors are the only source of public credibility for the Ecat. All the rest is IMO a wasting of time.