Rossi-Blog Comment Discussion


    I agree with Stefan.


    To answer AA's points more fully:


    1MW is problematic at Doral because of the LACK of natural ventilation up to the task. The comparison with a glass furnace is ridiculous, glass furnaces have large flues and void heat to the atmosphere through these. The existence of a tall large flue, with gasses emitted at high temperature, causes forced cooling which although natural creates an airflow equivalent to a very large fan. Doral had no such large flue, nor a 400C heat source to drive it!

    https://www.linkedin.com/pulse…ss-furnace-flue-stella-li



    A 20MW heating source is not comparable to a 20MW glass furnace because the 20MW must be properly dissipated in steam or hot water and distributed to its end use point with a closed loop system.


    Regards, THH

    Quote from woodworker

    And gas fired furnaces have been around for how many decades (or more). I find it disturbing that you compare a mature, well understood and well developed technology with an untested, unproven, unregulated, unexamined, not understood and not certified technology. I don't think you understand major corporations as well as you claim.

    What do you mean by a "gas fired furnace"? They come in all sorts of shapes and sizes and in industry are not standardized. You don't understand and it would take too long to explain it to you.

    Quote from Adrian Ashfield

    You really like spinning things to make them fit your version of the Rossi story.


    You write "a conventional 40 MW heater costs roughly $60 million." Yet your link further down shows that is a the cost for a geothermal heater - hardly conventional.

    Are you suggesting that a 40 MW Rossi device is conventional?? It would be the most unconventional machine in human history. It would work by principles that no scientist on earth understands, or can even imagine. It would not be safety tested. The control system would have to be invented from scratch. (The Doral system did not need any controls, because it was fake.) Surely, the cost of developing such a revolutionary machine would exceed the cost of developing a geothermal heater. Geothermal heating is boring, conventional technology that has been used for over a century in one form or another, mainly for electric power or combined heat and power, but also for direct space heating.

    Quote from stefan

    bet you had chimneys above the furnaces, directly or further up, so that the heated air went directly to the outlet without mixing much with the rest of the room so much.

    You would lose your bet. Inmost cases the flue leaves horizontally at ground level after the re generators. Apart from the radiation from the house sized furnace operating at 1550C the real thing you miss is that the furnace is >30% efficient and that heat comes out in the product.

    Why don't you try to find out the facts before you babble?

    Quote from Adrian Ashfield

    What do you mean by a "gas fired furnace"? They come in all sorts of shapes and sizes and in industry are not standardized.

    But they are governed by laws and regulations, and by ASME standards that fill entire books. Whereas no one knows anything about the Rossi reactor and there is not a single regulation or safety test on record that applies to it. You seem to imagine that if there are no applicable regulations to it, that means it can be used freely, in a happy-go-lucky world. No, that means it cannot be used. Period. Not until the safety tests are done and the regulations are on the books. That would take years and billions of dollars.


    Quote from Adrian Ashfield

    Insurance was dealt with by another dept, so I don't know mush about it.

    You do not know anything about it. Whereas other people here, including me, have dealt with it and we know a lot. The first thing we know is that there is not a single insurance company on God's Green Earth that will write a policy to cover a nuclear reactor that works by unknown processes, that only one person claims to understand, and that has never been safety tested, without any regulations covering it. The chances of that are zero to 5 significant places. I cannot even get insurance coverage for a house because it does not have modern plumbing. The insurance company almost withdrew coverage from my brother's house because there was dry rot on the porch. Insurance companies stick close to the rules and they take no unnecessary risks. Anything that looks like a violation of regulations will rule out coverage immediately. If they find out you deliberately violated or ignored regulations, they will not cover an accident.


    No corporation would risk using the Rossi device, whether they could get insurance or not. If something went wrong and there was an accident, they would face so many criminal charges and civil liabilities, the company might be bankrupted, like Tokyo Electric Power was after the Fukushima disaster. The management would end up in prison. No sane person would run that risk just to save 20% on energy costs for heating.


    You have not addressed any of these issues, and I am sure you will not address them. Your only response is "Rossi knows this stuff better than you do." No, he does not.

    Andrea Rossi

    August 14, 2018 at 5:44 PM


    Abe Vincent:

    It will be a magnificence as I can see it inside my brain. Pure Art of technology and a window with the view of the sun of the future. My life has been also a series of failures and errors and resiliency, but if all the enormous work for which I spent my life will have as a result this plant, my life will have been worth to be spent.

    Warm Regards,

    A.R.

    AA since you worked with glass manufacturing,.... what did you think of Bass's "fake" J.M Products business card with the picture of an industrial glass making manufacturing plant in Japan that he gave to IH?


    court docs: http://coldfusioncommunity.net…11/0029.20_Exhibit_20.jpg


    Recall he just used the picture from: http://acidcow.com/pics/16423-plants-in-japan-35-pics.html

    (image #17) on his card while saying he was working for Johnson Matthey.

    What a magnificence that his customer now has to take care for all the necessary 40MW nuclear plant authorizations...another failure in his career...


    1. Frank Acland August 16, 2018 at 5:42 AM

      Dear Andrea,

      Do you already have all the necessary authorizations to install and operate the 40 MW plant?

      Kind regards,

      Frank Acland

    2. Andrea Rossi August 16, 2018 at 7:56 AM

      Frank Acland:

      Our Customer is dealing with this issue. We have the necessary safety certification already done and all our plant’s components are certified. Locally certified engineers are dealing with specific licenses.

      Warm Regards,

      A.R.

    Quote from oldguy

    AA since you worked with glass manufacturing,.... what did you think of Bass's "fake" J.M Products business card with the picture of an industrial glass making manufacturing plant in Japan that he gave to IH?


    court docs: http://coldfusioncommunity.net…11/0029.20_Exhibit_20.jpg


    Recall he just used the picture from: http://acidcow.com/pics/16423-plants-in-japan-35-pics.html

    (image #17)

    Is that a glass manufacturing plant? I read about these photos but I don't recall the details. Image 28 shows tanks that say "Central Glass Co., vinyl chloride monomer" but I guess they deal in all kinds of chemicals, and that might not be the same factory as Image 17.


    I think these photos are by Ken Oyama (http://www.ohyamaken.com/) who has become rather famous for them. I vaguely recall this set of photos was taken on the Inland Sea, my old stomping grounds. These industrial complexes don't look pretty during the day.


    I want to push back on the notion that LENR is nuclear. LENR produces no gamma radiation. and neutrons. The energy that LENR releases could well come from the vacuum. It is up to the regulators to duplicate Rossi's reactor and determine where the energy is coming from before they ban that energy source as having an unknown character. For all intents and purposes LENR is not harmful to life since LENR can also be produced by bacteria.

    Quote from PhysicsForDummies

    You have to believe that Rossi is wearing a toupee because his hair fell out due to the effects of "Strange Radiation".


    A recent dialog between AXIL and LION as follows:


    AXIL: "In the LION reactor meltdown as well as many other LENR experiments, strange radiation is seen. These particle tracks are produced by the energy rich petal condensate as it moves around and absorbs energy using self pumping along it path of travel."

    LION: "Hi Axil,

    and it SPITS out Particles as it goes, the one I saw was BLACK and only visible due to the shiny Nickel around it."


    AXIL: "Can you supply a inclusive narrative that describes this experience?"


    LION: "

    Indeed, and the elements listed in my post above will provide a video of the phenomenon itself.

    I would dearly like to both say and show more but doing so would put events out of sequence that are currently in play.

    I will honour your request fully in the near future, be sure to hold me to this promise.

    You see Axil I have won already, and am simply thoroughly lining up events so that as wide an audience as possible may benefit from it, that for me includes main stream science"

    Quote from axil

    I want to push back on the notion that LENR is nuclear. LENR produces no gamma radiation. and neutrons. The energy that LENR releases could well come from the vacuum.

    Rossi claims it is nuclear in his patent. There is no evidence that energy can be extracted from a vacuum with "zero point energy," so your saying it "could well" be coming from that is nonsense. Zero point energy has been suggested by some theoreticians but never demonstrated. This is like saying "time travelers could well exist" because a few theories suggest time travel might be possible.


    Quote from axil

    It is up to the regulators to duplicate Rossi's reactor and determine where the energy is coming from before they ban that energy source as having an unknown character.

    Here on planet earth, that is not how regulators work. They do not have to show there is a safety problem. They have to perform extensive tests proving there is no safety problem. Things are banned until they are proven safe, using long-established tests and criteria. If Ford makes a new model car that has not been crash tested yet, they are not allowed to sell it because "there is no proof it is not safe." It never works that way.


    Furthermore, all major scientific organizations and institutions have to agree on the theory, and theory of operation. No one would be allowed to operate a large scale machine when no one understands what makes it work. Rossi alone might claim he understands, but that doesn't count. The whole scientific establishment has to understand and it has to agree on the theory.


    Quote from axil

    For all intents and purposes LENR is not harmful to life since LENR can also be produced by bacteria.

    No one has any idea whether LENR may be harmful to life. There has not been a single test of this, other than scientists being exposed to reactions mostly of a fraction of a watt. Rossi has never been exposed to a large scale LENR reaction because his Doral, FL device was a crude fake that produced no cold fusion reaction, as you see in the Penon report that you refuse to look at. More to the point, many LENR devices have exploded, and Rossi often claimed that his devices went out of control and were on the verge of exploding. Explosions are harmful to life. An explosion of a 40 MW device in a populated area could be catastrophic.


    There is only a little evidence that LENR can be produced by bacteria. As usual, you take partial, fragmentary, or vaguely suggestive evidence and you assume it is right, and you blow it up into a proven fact.

    The Rossi reactor is now a DISTRIBUTED reactor in that the energy that is produced comes from many 100 watt units connected together by a flow of coolant where a failure will be isolated to only one of these units. These independent units are isolated functionally and do not interact as happens in a neutron based nuclear reaction. In other words the design of the QX reactor regardless of its size is inherently safe.

    Quote from axil

    The Rossi reactor is now a DISTRIBUTED reactor in that the energy that is produced comes from many 100 watt units connected together by a flow of coolant where a failure will be isolated to only one of these units. These independent units are isolated functionally and do not interact as happens in a neutron based nuclear reaction. In other words the design of the QX reactor regardless of its size is inherently safe.


    Axil, have you considered that when it comes to nuclear safety unsubstantiated speculation, no matter how plausible it sounds, will never cut it? Nor should it.

    According to the world's foremost expert on all technical matters - Axil - the Rossi reactor is now a distributed reactor composed of 100W units. That means that the forthcoming 40MW machine is (drumroll...) 400,000 little e-cats all meowing together. Ok then. I take back my earlier nominee for most ridiculous thing to believe and choose this instead.

    Quote from THHuxleynew

    Axil, have you considered that when it comes to nuclear safety unsubstantiated speculation, no matter how plausible it sounds, will never cut it? Nor should it.


    Yes. Here is something that would probably not happen at a meeting of the Nuclear Regulatory Commission. The chief commissioner would probably not say --


    "Fellow commissioners, we have been informed that a new and totally unknown type of nuclear reactor is now in use, producing 40 MW of heat. It is installed in downtown Milwaukee, at the Screen & Trapdoor Glass Company. Only one person in the world -- the inventor -- has access to the controls, which he manipulates over the internet from an unknown location. Presumably he monitors the reaction and controls it 24 hours a day, but we don't know that.


    The inventor and the Screen & Trapdoor Glass Company did not inform this commission or the public about this reactor until after it was installed and in operation, which is why it just came up on our agenda.


    We have concluded this reactor is probably safe because an anonymous person on the internet who calls himself 'Axil' has informed us that it derives energy from the vacuum, and it is made up of 400,000 small units. The small units are probably safe, as far as anyone knows, although they have not been tested by any lab or safety regulator. Anyway, if they are safe, it stands to reason that a conglomeration of them is probably safe too. Why wouldn't it be? Although there are no details on how this conglomeration is controlled, or whether the units might interact. That is a trade secret known only to the operator.


    The reactor might or might not produce penetrating radiation. No one has reported any radiation sickness yet. So far so good! The reactor can probably be controlled to avoid an explosion, although the inventor says his previous reactors often went out of control and almost exploded. Again, so far so good. We see no reason to do any safety or performance checks. We are inclined to believe everything the inventor claims without any third-party verification. Although we note that he has been involved in several criminal and civil actions, and in his testimony he admitted he defrauded people and lied about the performance of the machines. There are some technical doubts about his previous claims. He claimed there was a heat exchanger which does not appear in any photos of the facility. Three leading engineering experts reviewed his performance report and pointed that it was nonsense without a shred of scientific or engineering validity. Putting all this aside, we are inclined to believe all of the inventor's claims.


    By the way, the reactor is not insured as far as anyone knows. The inventor says that is up the customer, and Screen & Trapdoor refuses to discuss the matter. We contacted several insurance companies, explained the situation, and asked if they are covering it, or whether they would cover it. They said no, they have not heard of it, and it would violate their procedures to insure a reactor that no one understands and that has not been safety tested. But what do they know? Maybe some company insured it.


    I move that we retroactively approve this installation. Let us hope it does not explode or irradiate anyone. As our national poet said, hope is the thing with feathers, and that's good enough for this commission. And as I said, so far so good! What's the worst that could happen? Okay, no one knows what might happen, but it isn't as if the public is counting on us to ensure safety."




    . . . A.A., Axil and Rossi apparently believe this is a realistic scenario. I don't think so.


    Boys, boys, boys, I am sure that we are making too much of the regulatory requirements -- Rossi will personally attest that his products are not only revolutionary, ground breaking, provide free energy, but also are perfectly safe and, if you order now (operators are standing by), you will get a free set of ginzu like knives, guaranteed to cut through any of Rossi's heat exchangers. If RossiSays, I am sure the regulators will all smile and immediately sign off, for, as everyone knows, Rossi's word is good as gold.

    Quote from Adrian Ashfield

    Insurance was dealt with by another dept, so I don't know mush about it.

    I assume it Rossi's plant is owned by Leonardo Corp and the would be responsible for that. Just like the supply of other utilities.


    But located on buyer's property? Connected to buyer's operation? And typically, the generating facilities for most utilities are located at a great distance from the end user. And to the extent that a end user has a generation facility on its premises, you better believe that their insurer/risk manager has analyzed it.


    And let's assume, for the sake of argument, that Rossi buys/leases a patch of land right next to his end user. I guarantee the end user's insurer is going to want to know about / inspect this revolutionary technology before issuing any property insurance for the end user. Why, you ask. Well, AA, because insurers need to know about potential risks that could cause or aggravate any property damage. Locating next to a kindergarten school doesn't radically increase one's risk, but siting right next to a "nuclear reactor" utiliizing unproven, untested and unregulated technology sets off insurers' alarm bells.


    These are all every day, real life practical issues, not babbling. And somehow you never seem to really answer any of these questions other than to say Rossi will take care of it, it is not really that important, the rest of us are too stupid to understand and/or not my department.


    Insurance -- all of the above;

    Regulators -- really not that difficult, but no details why not;

    Economics to the purchaser of the heat supply agreement -- the rest of us are too stupid to understand;

    etc., etc., etc., wash, rinse and repeat.

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