Apparently when you wield the hammer of cold fusion, all of the world's problems are nothing but a series of nails. As Adrian is fond of saying, we will have to wait and see.
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How about we transfer the ac/dc posts to LENR vs Solar/Wind, and emerging Green Technologies.
That is a better place to for it.
There, the deed is done.
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[That is a better place to for it.]
There, the deed is done.
So . . . you are saying they are in a better place, now that the deed is done. It sounds like a Victorian murder mystery.
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Apparently when you wield the hammer of cold fusion, all of the world's problems are nothing but a series of nails.
Yup. That's technology for you. It causes many of humanity's worst problems such as pollution, global warming and overpopulation, but is is also the only way to fix those problems. Medical technology caused overpopulation, but now it has given us effective contraceptives and 100% certain means of identifying the father. Those two together can end population growth, if we have the will to use them.
Cold fusion can solve a broad range of problems, as I described in my book:
http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/RothwellJcoldfusiona.pdf
Not all problems, of course. It won't cure cancer, * illiteracy or income disparities. It might make the latter even worse. But energy is the most essential part of any technology. All machines use energy, by definition. So a better source of energy can have a bigger impact than any other breakthrough, and cold fusion will be by far the best source of energy (assuming it can be made practical). That is why experts said it will be the most important discovery since fire if it works. They were right.
* On the other hand, it will reduce some forms of cancer caused by air pollution.
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Well, I am not at all convinced by some of the specific realizations of CF technology in your book (such as steam-powered cars), but there is no doubt that any virtually unlimited and highly efficient new energy source would turn the world on its end (no allusions to a flat earth intended.) Whether cold fusion is that world-changing technology is the 64 tera-dollar question. I realize the answer is clear in your mind and in those of many others that you are chomping at the bit to enumerate but that does not mean that the answer is clear. And whatever I have to say about it - and, for that matter, what most people here have to say about it - has no consequence whatsoever.
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You are right.
Thanks Shane. Sounds about as I expected.
But my main point was s nothing to do with aircraft. It was Jed insisting that the government had to do the tests and that is not true.
Today Rossi reports that his partner, who is mainly industrial. witnessed the test of the SK and was pleased with the results.
He says they have manufacturing expertise and will help install the manufacturing equipment as well as finance it.
I wonder if the babblers felt the walls close in at all.
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Adrian,
YW. Still though, the main point Jed, and most others are making, is that the government is heavily involved. Even if they do not do the testing, they, or their designee, have to sign off on it. That would apply to what Rossi plans to put on the market. So I have to agree with the consensus here that a legitimate customer, and real product are not in the cards.
That said, I have little doubt Rossi is prepping for something. Not sure what it is, or how it will turn out. Whether it will end the speculation, or be another big disappointment, but looking forward to when the show begins.
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Probably we have had enough of the great AC/DC controversy by now. Back to pure Rossi, or I'll have you all electrocuted!
dang,
I was just getting warmed up
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And whatever I have to say about it - and, for that matter, what most people here have to say about it - has no consequence whatsoever.
That is incorrect. As you see in the book, I talked to many experts such as Adm. Griffin, Fleischmann, and many distinguished non-experts such as Clarke. I listened carefully and I ran the manuscript past them to be sure I described their points of view correctly. I consulted with most of the people who knew about cold fusion at that time.
Here are some of the people I am less inclined to listen to, or not inclined to listen to at all:
People who have not thought about this.
People who have read nothing about cold fusion, or for that matter, conventional energy.
People who have no idea what power density and temperature means, or when these things were understood in the 19th century.
People who cannot understand some basic facts about technology and economics, such as the fact that automobiles, refrigerators and even house wiring must be gradually replaced over time. Or the fact that automobile engines are 130 times cheaper than large electric power generators per kilowatt of capacity. * Or the reasons why electric power companies in Hawaii are in dire shape. These have a direct bearing on the likely situation that will occur with cold fusion, as I show in various papers and books. Perhaps those experts I consulted with are wrong, and I am wrong, but if you have not even read these arguments, or considered them carefully, you are not in a position to dismiss them.
* See: http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/RothwellJcoldfusionb.pdf
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Thanks Shane. Sounds about as I expected.
But my main point was s nothing to do with aircraft. It was Jed insisting that the government had to do the tests and that is not true.
Today Rossi reports that his partner, who is mainly industrial. witnessed the test of the SK and was pleased with the results.
He says they have manufacturing expertise and will help install the manufacturing equipment as well as finance it.
I wonder if the babblers felt the walls close in at all.
What is important to me is that a potential partner performs a test themselves on a unit built themselves from scratch and openly shares the results. Until that happens, even if Rossi did manage to sell heat to a customer and generate income, there will still be massive debate as to what it represents. Just because he may begin selling heat to a customer won't provide proof it is of nuclear origin. There will be people that say he is generating the heat by some other means other than LENR to promote his technology. Even if the customer came forward and claimed that they observed the unit and it seemed like there was only limited input and a huge amount of anomalous output, I tremendously doubt there will be the transparency required to PROVE the plant operates as claimed. Now, after a period of time, if the customer (hopefully a full scale industrial customer and not a JM Products clone) seems extremely happy, is continually paying Rossi's invoices, and everything looks plausible, some of us who think the technology is real may accept that the situation is legitimate. However, there is virtually no chance Rossi will provide detailed measurements of the input and output -- taking no shortcuts -- and allow a third party (who is not a close associate of his that would appear suspicious even if there is zero wrong doing) to read the gauges and meters themselves.
Simply put, even if such a plant is built, setup, and produces power for a customer for an extended period of time, it may not do much to prove to the world that LENR is a reality. Obviously, it would stir up more interest in LENR. But, again, without hard data collected by properly calibrated and property utilized instruments and checked by a very qualified third party, it means very little to most people.
What we need is for a team of truly "open source" replicators to try and build a quark like device themselves. I don't think it should be too awfully difficult.
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Jed, you are so wrapped up in fighting your endless battle that you don’t care what you are responding to. You just launch the same endless attacks. If you bother to actually look at the comment I made that you jumped on, you might notice that all I was saying was that I and most other people (if not all other people) on this website will not be a factor in determining the ultimate fate of cold fusion. If you disagree with that, you are ridiculous. Further, if you think that the comment has anything to do with what papers I have read or my knowledge of various technologies you decided to bring up, then I have no clue how your brain works. Not every comment I make is an attack on any of your sacred cows. Basically, all I said was that I was irrelevant and even that pissed you off. What the hell is your problem?
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Director,
If Rossi can prove a "full scale industrial customer", that alone will certainly attract some attention. I do not see that happening though.
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Director,
I believe it is clear to any rational non-delusional person with any scientific or engineering or business backround that Rossi has nothing. I personally had to correct his conversion from degrees C to K on JONP, this from a top physicist inventor? It doesn't make much sense to speculate on how to turn a scam into the world changing discovery of the millennium. That speculation is for the space aliens on ECW. And I was stupid enough to believe his baloney for a short time. Fool me once, shame on me.
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Director,
I believe it is clear to any rational non-delusional person with any scientific or engineering or business backround that Rossi has nothing. I personally had to correct his conversion from degrees C to K on JONP, this from a top physicist inventor? It doesn't make much sense to speculate on how to turn a scam into the world changing discovery of the millennium. That speculation is for the space aliens on ECW. And I was stupid enough to believe his baloney for a short time. Fool me once, shame on me.
Coming to this story afresh, and paying attention, we have some non-technical tells. For me of course, the technical issues (bad tests) are of more interest. But the non-technical stuff is damning.
Whereas the things that Adrian reports are all speculative, based on a generous interpretation of Rossi's sphinx-like hints and even more generous assumption that Rossi is telling the truth, these tells are fact:
- Inventor spends excessive time curating his blog, answering blog questions about his work, dropping hints
- Inventor talks to himself on his blog
- Inventor blatantly lies to business partners, and boasts of this
- Inventor gets angry and irrational when presented with convincing evidence that his technical assumptions are wrong, and does not accept this
- Inventor is charismatic and convincing talking about general philosophy and physics to non-scientists
- Inventor does not allow reputable third-party testing - black box or NDA - as would be normal to validate for investors
- Inventor accepts commercialisation agreements in which he has no incentive in the success of the commercialisation. (The IH agreement). While there is no proof that Rossi insisted on this "pay massively up front" agreement it is pretty certainly from him, since very unusual and strongly contrary to the interests of any industrial partner, who would want inventors at least to have some interest in commercial success, and contrary to the interests of a normal inventor.
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What is important to me is that a potential partner performs a test themselves on a unit built themselves from scratch and openly shares the results. Until that happens, even if Rossi did manage to sell heat to a customer and generate income, there will still be massive debate as to what it represents. Just because he may begin selling heat to a customer won't provide proof it is of nuclear origin. There will be people that say he is generating the heat by some other means other than LENR to promote his technology.
One customer will not be enough to persuade the pathoskeptics, but half a dozen customers should be enough for most people.
Money talks and the bean counters who run large companies are always keen to reduce energy costs. It is something they can understand. Rossi would have many customers if the first dew customers are satisfied.
If you think about it, for Rossi to compete with gas would require a COP >25. It should not be difficult to show he is only using electricity. One doesn't need an independent test to show that.
There is no requirement for the government to get involved in an industrial situation if Rossi can states he is not using any toxic/radioactive materials and not making dangerous radiation.
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“There is no requirement for the government to get involved in an industrial situation if Rossi can states he is not using any toxic/radioactive materials and not making dangerous radiation.”
Right. There is no need for permits of any kind as long as Rossi says everything is ok. That’s how industry works.
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Inventor spends excessive time curating his blog, answering blog questions about his work, dropping hints
You don't think any comsny should have a web site and advertise themselves?
Inventor talks to himself on his blog
Prove it.
Your bullet points are just repeats. You just have to insult Rossi in every post. Ever wonder why you get satisfaction form that?
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Adrian,
I won't reiterate the proof. If you pay attention over the past 18 months we have documented on this site cases when the mis-spellings and phraseology of posters are exactly the same as Rossi - things unusual and characteristic. I'm not saying that all the posts that have been so attributed are definite - some of these things may be charactersitic of Italians speaking English - but some were. Sometimes he was directly answering points posted here: it was comical. There was a lot of it during the Trial when of course Rossi himself was supposed not to say anything. His sock puppets would ask a question supposing a particular answer to which Rossi would reply that he was not allowed to say.
Sure - almost anyone has a web site. But few inventors have a fake academic Journal. Few inventors spend so much time answering questions from a devoted fan audience. The combination is extraordinary and, for anyone of normal cognition, a definite oddity.
THH
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One customer will not be enough to persuade the pathoskeptics, but half a dozen customers should be enough for most people.
Money talks and the bean counters who run large companies are always keen to reduce energy costs. It is something they can understand. Rossi would have many customers if the first dew customers are satisfied.
If you think about it, for Rossi to compete with gas would require a COP >25. It should not be difficult to show he is only using electricity. One doesn't need an independent test to show that.
There is no requirement for the government to get involved in an industrial situation if Rossi can states he is not using any toxic/radioactive materials and not making dangerous radiation.
Adrian it is strange that you post these things. Your argument above is one of the reasons why most here don't rate the chances of Rossi having anything very high.
If Rossi had what he claims it would indeed become front page news pretty soon. You cannot keep something like that quiet. One or two genuine customers would be enough (and with Press interest reporters would soon establish any non-genuineness).
No-one here to my knowledge argues that. The fact that Rossi's stuff - seemingly working for 7 years now in some form that indicates a radical new energy source - has not become front page news tells you something. It actually got more and better Press when he did his first demos 7 years ago than it does now.
Cue the conspiracy theories? (I've heard a lot!).
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I won't reiterate the proof.
You really take babbler's speculation as proof? LOL
