Rossi-Blog Comment Discussion

  • Jed, you are so wrapped up in fighting your endless battle that you don’t care what you are responding to. You just launch the same endless attacks. If you bother to actually look at the comment I made that you jumped on, you might notice that all I was saying was that I and most other people (if not all other people) on this website will not be a factor in determining the ultimate fate of cold fusion. If you disagree with that, you are ridiculous. Further, if you think that the comment has anything to do with what papers I have read or my knowledge of various technologies you decided to bring up, then I have no clue how your brain works. Not every comment I make is an attack on any of your sacred cows. Basically, all I said was that I was irrelevant and even that pissed you off. What the hell is your problem?

  • Director,

    I believe it is clear to any rational non-delusional person with any scientific or engineering or business backround that Rossi has nothing. I personally had to correct his conversion from degrees C to K on JONP, this from a top physicist inventor? It doesn't make much sense to speculate on how to turn a scam into the world changing discovery of the millennium. That speculation is for the space aliens on ECW. And I was stupid enough to believe his baloney for a short time. Fool me once, shame on me.

  • Director,

    I believe it is clear to any rational non-delusional person with any scientific or engineering or business backround that Rossi has nothing. I personally had to correct his conversion from degrees C to K on JONP, this from a top physicist inventor? It doesn't make much sense to speculate on how to turn a scam into the world changing discovery of the millennium. That speculation is for the space aliens on ECW. And I was stupid enough to believe his baloney for a short time. Fool me once, shame on me.


    Coming to this story afresh, and paying attention, we have some non-technical tells. For me of course, the technical issues (bad tests) are of more interest. But the non-technical stuff is damning.


    Whereas the things that Adrian reports are all speculative, based on a generous interpretation of Rossi's sphinx-like hints and even more generous assumption that Rossi is telling the truth, these tells are fact:


    • Inventor spends excessive time curating his blog, answering blog questions about his work, dropping hints
    • Inventor talks to himself on his blog
    • Inventor blatantly lies to business partners, and boasts of this
    • Inventor gets angry and irrational when presented with convincing evidence that his technical assumptions are wrong, and does not accept this
    • Inventor is charismatic and convincing talking about general philosophy and physics to non-scientists
    • Inventor does not allow reputable third-party testing - black box or NDA - as would be normal to validate for investors
    • Inventor accepts commercialisation agreements in which he has no incentive in the success of the commercialisation. (The IH agreement). While there is no proof that Rossi insisted on this "pay massively up front" agreement it is pretty certainly from him, since very unusual and strongly contrary to the interests of any industrial partner, who would want inventors at least to have some interest in commercial success, and contrary to the interests of a normal inventor.
  • What is important to me is that a potential partner performs a test themselves on a unit built themselves from scratch and openly shares the results. Until that happens, even if Rossi did manage to sell heat to a customer and generate income, there will still be massive debate as to what it represents. Just because he may begin selling heat to a customer won't provide proof it is of nuclear origin. There will be people that say he is generating the heat by some other means other than LENR to promote his technology.

    One customer will not be enough to persuade the pathoskeptics, but half a dozen customers should be enough for most people.


    Money talks and the bean counters who run large companies are always keen to reduce energy costs. It is something they can understand. Rossi would have many customers if the first dew customers are satisfied.


    If you think about it, for Rossi to compete with gas would require a COP >25. It should not be difficult to show he is only using electricity. One doesn't need an independent test to show that.


    There is no requirement for the government to get involved in an industrial situation if Rossi can states he is not using any toxic/radioactive materials and not making dangerous radiation.

  • “There is no requirement for the government to get involved in an industrial situation if Rossi can states he is not using any toxic/radioactive materials and not making dangerous radiation.”


    Right. There is no need for permits of any kind as long as Rossi says everything is ok. That’s how industry works. :D:D

  • Adrian,


    I won't reiterate the proof. If you pay attention over the past 18 months we have documented on this site cases when the mis-spellings and phraseology of posters are exactly the same as Rossi - things unusual and characteristic. I'm not saying that all the posts that have been so attributed are definite - some of these things may be charactersitic of Italians speaking English - but some were. Sometimes he was directly answering points posted here: it was comical. There was a lot of it during the Trial when of course Rossi himself was supposed not to say anything. His sock puppets would ask a question supposing a particular answer to which Rossi would reply that he was not allowed to say.


    Sure - almost anyone has a web site. But few inventors have a fake academic Journal. Few inventors spend so much time answering questions from a devoted fan audience. The combination is extraordinary and, for anyone of normal cognition, a definite oddity.


    THH



  • Adrian it is strange that you post these things. Your argument above is one of the reasons why most here don't rate the chances of Rossi having anything very high.


    If Rossi had what he claims it would indeed become front page news pretty soon. You cannot keep something like that quiet. One or two genuine customers would be enough (and with Press interest reporters would soon establish any non-genuineness).


    No-one here to my knowledge argues that. The fact that Rossi's stuff - seemingly working for 7 years now in some form that indicates a radical new energy source - has not become front page news tells you something. It actually got more and better Press when he did his first demos 7 years ago than it does now.


    Cue the conspiracy theories? (I've heard a lot!).

  • Adrian,


    You can’t be serious,

    convincing the “pathoskeptics” is worth less than 2 dead flies.

    How can you even consider that a requirement?

  • Director,

    I believe it is clear to any rational non-delusional person with any scientific or engineering or business backround that Rossi has nothing. I personally had to correct his conversion from degrees C to K on JONP, this from a top physicist inventor? It doesn't make much sense to speculate on how to turn a scam into the world changing discovery of the millennium. That speculation is for the space aliens on ECW. And I was stupid enough to believe his baloney for a short time. Fool me once, shame on me.


    I totally disagree -- if the individual has a decent understanding of LENR (especially the EVO and spheromak connection) and has followed the saga closely. In this case, they'd be able to realize that it's a virtual certainty Rossi has built working LENR systems in the past. What he did early on with palladium seeded nickel exposed to plasma is very similar to the more recent work of Mizuno. The only difference is that even back then Rossi was using fine powder that would allow his fuel to have at least a magnitude greater surface area than Mizuno's wire (only using one order of magnitude to be conservative here due to the realities of nickel powder sintering together). So take Mizuno's results, boost the temperature to 700C or higher (which Mizuno predicts would have produced a kilowatt of excess heat), multiply the excess heat produced by ten due to the increased surface area, and boost it a tad more to take in account Rossi's use of lithium and various alkaili metals. The result is Rossi's early systems (such as the one that Dr. Levi tested that spiked in output to over a hundred kilowatts for a period of time) that produced high levels of output and even self sustained operation. Furthermore, the early evolution of the stimulation methods Rossi used make perfect sense; for example, the use of radio frequency generators in the reactors of the first one megawatt plant. When you have dug deeply enough into the history of the various players in LENR -- looking all the way back to Focardi and Piantelli's work -- you realize that the chance of Rossi never having anything is minuscule.


    However, I can understand how an engineering or businessman looking at Rossi's track record without having followed the entire saga or studied LENR in depth would conclude he was nothing but a snake oil salesmen and far, far worse. The image Rossi created for himself due to the shenanigans that took place at Doral is not flattering to say the least. Being the president of his own customer, manipulating the LENR community into thinking he had a relationship with Johnson Matthey, attempting to convince IH he had a relationship with Johnson Matthey, violating his contract by not allowing IH representatives to enter the facility, setting up the test at Doral to make the exact results far less convincing than they should have been (a few extra instruments installed at various points would have backed up his figures and made them rock solid), not taking pictures of various components he claims existed, etc. All of this would make someone looking at the situation from the distance scream and run the other way.

  • I speculated the babblers would not be convinced by one customer. I couldn't care less it did or didn't as it doesn't make any difference.

    Would you be convinced by one customer?

    Of course not, you're an engineer, you research, investigate, discuss with other engineers about the application.


    Unless of course the customer is a

    sock puppet like Doral, then it would be dismissed out of hand as it should.

  • It came up on a discussion with you, when initially you wouldn't accept multiple clients as proof. You later changed your mind.



    Adrian please take that back, or give a link?


    I do change my mind, unlike it seems you. but did not on that matter. I remember you misread my post, but if you interpret every post you do not properly read as somone changing their mind you will be sadly deluded.

  • Frank Acland

    September 15, 2018 at 11:40 PM


    Dear Andrea,

    Will your industrial partner be using E-Cat heat for its own operations, or just helping you make E-Cats?

    Best wishes,

    Frank Acland


    Andrea Rossi

    September 16, 2018 at 9:34 AM


    Frank Acland:

    Will use the Ecats for his production.

    Warm Regards,

    A.R.

  • PS

    THH: Yes indeed. No skeptic here disputes that - just we think it vanishingly unlikely it will happen.


    AA: So why did it take so long to see the light and say yes?

    #6,458


    Adrian. Are you on purpose not reading my posts? Or are you not able to understand them? The long one, which you complained was too long for you to read, explains why (as summarised in the next one), neither yes nor no is a correct answer to your original question, because it depends on crucial details not given.


    Ever since then you have done this "Yes or No" or "It took you a long time to say Yes" stuff.


    It is either an unsophisticated and slightly dishonest rhetorical device, or just that you have a profound inability to understand any complexity. I'm pretty sure the second applies.


    Actually I suspect you are intellectually capable of understanding, but you choose not to.

  • Adrian. Are you on purpose not reading my posts? Or are you not able to understand them?

    We had been discussing whether multiple clients would present proof for some time. I couldn't get a straight answer so asked for a yes or no


    When you replied "Yes indeed. No skeptic here disputes that -" it seemed clear enough to me.


    Let's try again. Would hundreds of satisfied clients be proof that the SK worked? Yes or no?

  • Let's try again. Would hundreds of satisfied clients be proof that the SK worked? Yes or no?

    If I actually believed there were hundreds, of course that would be proof! However, if Rossi claimed there were hundreds, but there was no list and no testimony or independent proof, I would assume he was lying, the way he lied about his previous customers.


    It wouldn't take hundreds. If two or three customers emerged, and testified in a credible way, with evidence that convinced most engineers and HVAC people, I would believe it. On the other hand, if the evidence was something like the Penon report, I would not believe it. Neither would you, if you were to read the Penon report.


    But this is a complete fantasy. It could never happen. Long before any customer buys a Rossi device, the devices will have to be tested for safety and efficiency, and these tests must be made public. So, 5 or 10 years before the first satisfied client emerges, everyone on earth will know that the machine is real and Rossi is telling the truth.

  • We had been discussing whether multiple clients would present proof for some time.

    Sure, the testimony of a couple of credible clients would satisfy.

    But where are they - after so many years of Rossi promises about “robotized e-cat production lines”?


    Just one example. Here what Rossi told Mats Lewan two years ago about e-cat manufacturing in Sweden:

    Quote

    Rossi made it clear to me that he intended to buy the factory building, aiming at starting manufacturing of the third generation E-Cat reactor, called the Quark X, hopefully this year, otherwise in 2017, with an estimated production volume of 500,000 items a year, using a robot line provided by ABB.

    https://animpossibleinvention.…ilding-plus-more-updates/


    So, where are this 500,000 Quark X which he planned to produce in 2017?


    Let me ask you in return to your question “How many satisfied clients would be proof that the SK worked”: How many empty promises of “robotized factory lines” etc (soon) ready for production would it take for you to accept that Rossi doesn’t have what he claims to have?

  • f I actually believed there were hundreds, of course that would be proof!

    THH didn't think so. He went into ,ore exotic exceptions. To get around that and prove the principle, with a large number- a million satisfied clients (ie in widespread use) if you like , one wouldn't need any reports. If you agree to that, we could debate a lower number....


    Ps, Every one knows you don't believe any E-Cats worked and regulations would stop their use. You don't have to keep repeating it, Only time will tell.

  • THH didn't think so. He went into ,ore exotic exceptions.

    I am not THH. He does not believe any cold fusion results. He comes up impossible scenarios to deny them, such as water leaving the cells undetected in the weeks before the boil-off, when the data shows no water left undetected, and that could not begin to explain the heat even if all of the water had left.


    Ps, Every one knows you don't believe any E-Cats worked and regulations would stop their use.

    I never said regulations would stop their use. I said they will delay it, just as they delay all other technology.


    I have said many times there is evidence that the Rossi devices worked in the first Levi report. I still think so, but subsequent events make me think it is unlikely. I am quite sure the Doral test did not work, and you might agree if you looked at it, but you refuse to do that.


    You don't have to keep repeating it, Only time will tell.

    Apparently I do need to repeat it, because you just distorted it. You changed "delay" to "never." Time will not tell. The regulations and laws will not change, and regulators not allow an exception for Rossi or anyone else. They can't. They would be breaking the law. Only Congress can change the laws, and I cannot see any reason why it would change them for Rossi. A delay of a few years will not hurt him or slow down progress measurably. On the contrary, it will ensure the products are safe and the public accepts them. In the end, it will speed up the process.