How shall we treat your Rossi BS speculation? As proof?? 😂😂😂
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How shall we treat your Rossi BS speculation? As proof??
Only a babbler would think that when I say more data is required for proof.
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One customer will not be enough to persuade the pathoskeptics, but half a dozen customers should be enough for most people.
Money talks and the bean counters who run large companies are always keen to reduce energy costs. It is something they can understand. Rossi would have many customers if the first dew customers are satisfied.
If you think about it, for Rossi to compete with gas would require a COP >25. It should not be difficult to show he is only using electricity. One doesn't need an independent test to show that.
There is no requirement for the government to get involved in an industrial situation if Rossi can states he is not using any toxic/radioactive materials and not making dangerous radiation.
Adrian,
You can’t be serious,
convincing the “pathoskeptics” is worth less than 2 dead flies.
How can you even consider that a requirement?
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How can you even consider that a requirement?
I speculated the babblers would not be convinced by one customer. I couldn't care less it did or didn't as it doesn't make any difference.
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I speculated the babblers would not be convinced by one customer. I couldn't care less it did or didn't as it doesn't make any difference.
Then why bother think and post about it?
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Director,
I believe it is clear to any rational non-delusional person with any scientific or engineering or business backround that Rossi has nothing. I personally had to correct his conversion from degrees C to K on JONP, this from a top physicist inventor? It doesn't make much sense to speculate on how to turn a scam into the world changing discovery of the millennium. That speculation is for the space aliens on ECW. And I was stupid enough to believe his baloney for a short time. Fool me once, shame on me.
I totally disagree -- if the individual has a decent understanding of LENR (especially the EVO and spheromak connection) and has followed the saga closely. In this case, they'd be able to realize that it's a virtual certainty Rossi has built working LENR systems in the past. What he did early on with palladium seeded nickel exposed to plasma is very similar to the more recent work of Mizuno. The only difference is that even back then Rossi was using fine powder that would allow his fuel to have at least a magnitude greater surface area than Mizuno's wire (only using one order of magnitude to be conservative here due to the realities of nickel powder sintering together). So take Mizuno's results, boost the temperature to 700C or higher (which Mizuno predicts would have produced a kilowatt of excess heat), multiply the excess heat produced by ten due to the increased surface area, and boost it a tad more to take in account Rossi's use of lithium and various alkaili metals. The result is Rossi's early systems (such as the one that Dr. Levi tested that spiked in output to over a hundred kilowatts for a period of time) that produced high levels of output and even self sustained operation. Furthermore, the early evolution of the stimulation methods Rossi used make perfect sense; for example, the use of radio frequency generators in the reactors of the first one megawatt plant. When you have dug deeply enough into the history of the various players in LENR -- looking all the way back to Focardi and Piantelli's work -- you realize that the chance of Rossi never having anything is minuscule.
However, I can understand how an engineering or businessman looking at Rossi's track record without having followed the entire saga or studied LENR in depth would conclude he was nothing but a snake oil salesmen and far, far worse. The image Rossi created for himself due to the shenanigans that took place at Doral is not flattering to say the least. Being the president of his own customer, manipulating the LENR community into thinking he had a relationship with Johnson Matthey, attempting to convince IH he had a relationship with Johnson Matthey, violating his contract by not allowing IH representatives to enter the facility, setting up the test at Doral to make the exact results far less convincing than they should have been (a few extra instruments installed at various points would have backed up his figures and made them rock solid), not taking pictures of various components he claims existed, etc. All of this would make someone looking at the situation from the distance scream and run the other way.
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I speculated the babblers would not be convinced by one customer. I couldn't care less it did or didn't as it doesn't make any difference.
Would you be convinced by one customer?
Of course not, you're an engineer, you research, investigate, discuss with other engineers about the application.
Unless of course the customer is a
sock puppet like Doral, then it would be dismissed out of hand as it should.
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Then why bother think and post about it?
It came up on a discussion with you, when initially you wouldn't accept multiple clients as proof. You later changed your mind.
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It came up on a discussion with you, when initially you wouldn't accept multiple clients as proof. You later changed your mind.
Adrian please take that back, or give a link?
I do change my mind, unlike it seems you. but did not on that matter. I remember you misread my post, but if you interpret every post you do not properly read as somone changing their mind you will be sadly deluded.
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Adrian please take that back, or give a link?
THH: Yes indeed. No skeptic here disputes that - just we think it vanishingly unlikely it will happen.
AA: So why did it take so long to see the light and say yes?
#6,458
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Frank Acland
September 15, 2018 at 11:40 PM
Dear Andrea,
Will your industrial partner be using E-Cat heat for its own operations, or just helping you make E-Cats?
Best wishes,
Frank Acland
Andrea Rossi
September 16, 2018 at 9:34 AM
Frank Acland:
Will use the Ecats for his production.
Warm Regards,
A.R.
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So it seems Rossi has now two customers already. One who needs 40 MW heat/steam and one who uses his fabulous SK Ecats in his production facility. Amazing.
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See http://e-catworld.com/2018/09/16/rossi-on-leonardos-partner/ for what is known about Rossi's partner.
Looks like Rossi has found the right partner this time....
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PS
THH: Yes indeed. No skeptic here disputes that - just we think it vanishingly unlikely it will happen.
AA: So why did it take so long to see the light and say yes?
#6,458
Adrian. Are you on purpose not reading my posts? Or are you not able to understand them? The long one, which you complained was too long for you to read, explains why (as summarised in the next one), neither yes nor no is a correct answer to your original question, because it depends on crucial details not given.
Ever since then you have done this "Yes or No" or "It took you a long time to say Yes" stuff.
It is either an unsophisticated and slightly dishonest rhetorical device, or just that you have a profound inability to understand any complexity. I'm pretty sure the second applies.
Actually I suspect you are intellectually capable of understanding, but you choose not to.
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Adrian. Are you on purpose not reading my posts? Or are you not able to understand them?
We had been discussing whether multiple clients would present proof for some time. I couldn't get a straight answer so asked for a yes or no
When you replied "Yes indeed. No skeptic here disputes that -" it seemed clear enough to me.
Let's try again. Would hundreds of satisfied clients be proof that the SK worked? Yes or no?
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Let's try again. Would hundreds of satisfied clients be proof that the SK worked? Yes or no?
If I actually believed there were hundreds, of course that would be proof! However, if Rossi claimed there were hundreds, but there was no list and no testimony or independent proof, I would assume he was lying, the way he lied about his previous customers.
It wouldn't take hundreds. If two or three customers emerged, and testified in a credible way, with evidence that convinced most engineers and HVAC people, I would believe it. On the other hand, if the evidence was something like the Penon report, I would not believe it. Neither would you, if you were to read the Penon report.
But this is a complete fantasy. It could never happen. Long before any customer buys a Rossi device, the devices will have to be tested for safety and efficiency, and these tests must be made public. So, 5 or 10 years before the first satisfied client emerges, everyone on earth will know that the machine is real and Rossi is telling the truth.
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We had been discussing whether multiple clients would present proof for some time.
Sure, the testimony of a couple of credible clients would satisfy.
But where are they - after so many years of Rossi promises about “robotized e-cat production lines”?
Just one example. Here what Rossi told Mats Lewan two years ago about e-cat manufacturing in Sweden:
QuoteRossi made it clear to me that he intended to buy the factory building, aiming at starting manufacturing of the third generation E-Cat reactor, called the Quark X, hopefully this year, otherwise in 2017, with an estimated production volume of 500,000 items a year, using a robot line provided by ABB.
https://animpossibleinvention.…ilding-plus-more-updates/
So, where are this 500,000 Quark X which he planned to produce in 2017?
Let me ask you in return to your question “How many satisfied clients would be proof that the SK worked”: How many empty promises of “robotized factory lines” etc (soon) ready for production would it take for you to accept that Rossi doesn’t have what he claims to have?
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f I actually believed there were hundreds, of course that would be proof!
THH didn't think so. He went into ,ore exotic exceptions. To get around that and prove the principle, with a large number- a million satisfied clients (ie in widespread use) if you like , one wouldn't need any reports. If you agree to that, we could debate a lower number....
Ps, Every one knows you don't believe any E-Cats worked and regulations would stop their use. You don't have to keep repeating it, Only time will tell.
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THH didn't think so. He went into ,ore exotic exceptions.
I am not THH. He does not believe any cold fusion results. He comes up impossible scenarios to deny them, such as water leaving the cells undetected in the weeks before the boil-off, when the data shows no water left undetected, and that could not begin to explain the heat even if all of the water had left.
Ps, Every one knows you don't believe any E-Cats worked and regulations would stop their use.
I never said regulations would stop their use. I said they will delay it, just as they delay all other technology.
I have said many times there is evidence that the Rossi devices worked in the first Levi report. I still think so, but subsequent events make me think it is unlikely. I am quite sure the Doral test did not work, and you might agree if you looked at it, but you refuse to do that.
You don't have to keep repeating it, Only time will tell.
Apparently I do need to repeat it, because you just distorted it. You changed "delay" to "never." Time will not tell. The regulations and laws will not change, and regulators not allow an exception for Rossi or anyone else. They can't. They would be breaking the law. Only Congress can change the laws, and I cannot see any reason why it would change them for Rossi. A delay of a few years will not hurt him or slow down progress measurably. On the contrary, it will ensure the products are safe and the public accepts them. In the end, it will speed up the process.
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Rossi has had only one real paying customer for ecats, and they were extremely unsatisfied, and they sure did pay.
