Wrong. My position is not falsifiable.
Are you joking? If you mean that, you should realize that a position that cannot be falsified cannot be considered true or false. It is not scientific.
-
-
It won't be long now, the Quark will power well pumps through the world in backwater villages far and wide and millions of poor people will be able to drink abundant clear water. Rossi will be the reason and uncounted lives will be made better, and the sons of perdition, the purveyors of pain and suffering will have lost another battle.
Linky please.
See the above for one link, there are others but I am not wasting my time!
Same with AA, he wants to forget his past, bold statements because they show his error. He does not want to rehash the past! He consciously forgets the many disappointments of Rossi and dreams of the future.
-
You are proud of spouting non-falsifiable positions? Then these positions are useful how?
Mu position on whether the E-Cats work as claimed is not falsifiable.
My opinions and reported data are.
You need lofic for dummies.
-
Are you joking? If you mean that, you should realize that a position that cannot be falsified cannot be considered true or false. It is not scientific.
Jed, you too need logic for dummies, I don't consider there is enough good evidence to be sure that the E-Cats works or doesn't work yet. There will be in due course.
Neither am I completely neutral. Unlike you I have not swallowed IH's story whole and increasingly think Rossi has something as more data becomes available. Unlike you, I don;t leap to conclusions nor put words in other's mouths.
-
You mean more Rossisays becomes available?
-
Jed, you too need logic for dummies, I don't consider there is enough good evidence to be sure that the E-Cats works or doesn't work yet. There will be in due course.
Neither am I completely neutral. Unlike you I have not swallowed IH's story whole and increasingly think Rossi has something as more data becomes available. Unlike you, I don;t leap to conclusions nor put words in other's mouths.
Adrian, you have past history doing this, and not answering those who call you out.
You talked about "the next thing that would prove" implying that something was already proved. I asked you then what evidence you had other than the word of Rossi who is on record (he has admitted it) that he has repeatedly lied about the commercial status, and functional status, of his devices, making claims which he later withdraws.
Your lack of reply was understandable. There is no evidence except RossiSays. And those, as we've pointed out, are not even consistent.
You'd be more honest here if you prefaced every post with a disclaimer "the arguments in this post rely on the assumption that all RossiSays are true except those directly self-contradictory (which is quite a number)".
-
I don't consider there is enough good evidence to be sure that the E-Cats works or doesn't work yet. There will be in due course.
I think the Doral test was definitive, but you have not looked at it, so you would not know. However, you should not say "there is not enough good evidence." You should say "there may be evidence in Rossi's report, but I refuse to look at it." That's an entirely different assertion!
Neither am I completely neutral.
These two statements are contradictory. If there is not enough evidence to be sure they work, or don't work, you must remain neutral. How can you make a positive statement either way if there is not enough evidence for either conclusion?
Unlike you I have not swallowed IH's story whole and increasingly think Rossi has something as more data becomes available.
I did not read IH's story, and neither did you. I skipped that part of the lawsuit depositions. The only data I have looked at was uploaded by Rossi, to prove his case. It does the opposite. It proves he is a liar and his device could not possibly work. You refuse to look at this data, so you cannot dispute this conclusion. For example, you cannot dispute the fact that the mezzanine heat exchanger did not exist, and that without it, everyone would have died. Even Rossi agreed to the latter, which is why he made up the lie about the invisible heat exchanger.
Let me repeat: nothing I say is based on "IH's story." It all comes from Rossi.
Everyone I know who has read the Penon report and Rossi's other statements about his experiments in the depositions agrees that the test did not work and he is a liar. You have not read these things. You refuse to look at the proof that heat exchanger did not exist. You have only read Rossi's blog, which is full of nonsense and lies -- as you would see if you looked at other sources of information from Rossi. Which is why you refuse to look at them.
-
In 2009 AA was defending Richard Weir of EEStor, and annoyed with those who took a skeptical view of Weir's fantastical claims, responding to a skeptic: "I don’t know why you are so down on EEStor." And AA made many additional contentless defenses against reasoned critics of EESTor. In January 2007 EEStor stated in a press release "EEStor, Inc. remains on track to begin shipping production 15 kilowatt-hour Electrical Energy Storage Units (EESU) to ZENN Motor Company in 2007 for use in their electric vehicles." (Wikipedia). Fast forward to 2018: Richard Weir no longer is involved with the company and the company still has no commercial product. When at the time a commenter stated that EEStor appeared to be committing fraud, AA defended them with "It is certainly a funny way of going about fraud. Spending money on the project and not looking for any more investments..." [sound familiar?]. Weir conned Zenn motors into buying 70% of the company. It is still traded publicly in Canada and US, but changed it's name from Zenn Motor Co. back to EEStor and hired some researchers to try to make money from a patent owned by the company - so far, with no success.
That same year (2009) AA was also defending BLP:, complaining that critics were moving the goalposts by initially claiming the need for "...one independent experiment to validate BLP’s claim.” and moving the goal posts to needing theory. AA, at least, took it on faith that BLP's claims of "excess energy of >30 kWhrs" was well beyond experimental error. [sound familiar?] Today BLP has moved past such pedestrian accomplishments of mere >30KWhrs excess energy, even though a successful replication of those 2009 claims would, if repeatable, almost certainly guarantee that 1) Randall Mills would get the Noble Prize, 2) all energy would be clean, 3) and Axil's clean water pumps would be powerable by BLP and saving hundreds of millions of lives annually. But now it's 2018 and Brilliant Light Power has not just changed their name, they've moved on to even more exciting technology (that nobody can access or replicate [sound familiar?]): the Suncell® which, according the the BLP website is like "Sunlight in a bottle".
In 2011, AA was writing articles expounding the benefits of Rossi's revolutionary discovery and insulting critics as "uninformed" and "pathological skeptics" [sound familiar?]. He cited NASA testing E-Cats as support, asking why Rossi would give such an organization (NASA) the "opportunity to demonstrate he is a fraud and liar" [sound familiar?]. (Rossi's demo literally nearly blew up some NASA investigators - he was not invited back).
In 2011 AA was also defending Rossi against carefully reasoned and supported skepticism from Tom Clarke [sound familiar?], who many on this blog know (some more intimately than others).
For 9 years, AA has provided continuous reflexive scorn for skeptics of free energy scams, with the same babbling and insults, as he imagines himself to have expert engineering insight and simultaneously genuinely believes he is neutral and "unfalsifiable".
Don't expect AA to stop babbling any time soon...
-
Iggy Dalrymple
September 19, 2018 at 9:42 PMGod phoned Satan, “How’s it going down there?”
Satan, “Thanks for asking, God. It’s going great. We now have an engineer and he has installed central air-conditioning and escalators. It’s much more comfortable here now.”
God, “Somethings wrong! Engineers are not supposed to go to Hell. Send him back immediately.”
Satan, “No way, the engineer has brought great improvements to Hell.”
God, “This is an obvious clerical error. Send him back, or I will sue!”
Satan, “Yeah right, God, and where do you expect to find a lawyer?”
Andrea Rossi
September 20, 2018 at 7:32 AMIggy Dalrymple:
Ha, Ha, Ha !
Warm Regards,
A.R.
-
Jed, you too need logic for dummies, I don't consider there is enough good evidence to be sure that the E-Cats works or doesn't work yet. There will be in due course.
Neither am I completely neutral. Unlike you I have not swallowed IH's story whole and increasingly think Rossi has something as more data becomes available. Unlike you, I don;t leap to conclusions nor put words in other's mouths.
Sorry, I just cannot let this one go... "increasingly think Rossi has something as more data becomes available" (emphasis mine)
A.A. Please provide me ANY data that has become available in the past 12 months about the QuarkX. Any data at all! Or does "Rossi says" count as data to you?
The Stockholm event? What actual data was there? Please ask A Smith about that demo, he was actually there. However, you refuse to do that because you know what his answer will be.
What other DATA is there?
New customer announced? Wait, Rossi has announced at least (3) customers since the trial! But then you want to forget the past do you not.
QuarkX was 5 sigma certified according to Rossi, (however no evidence to support that claim). What DATA is there that supports the Skat Cat is more reliable?
Actually AA, can you distinctly tell me what significant advantages the SK has over the QuarkX and what data supports that conclusion?
Last fall Rossi stated the robotic factories were being built. He even mentioned ABB as the vendor. Now ROSSI has posted that ABB is a competitor. What DATA do you have of any factory, robotic or not, of any employees, facility or anything?
At one time in the past, (if you care to remember) you stated you had third party information about a factory of Rossi's. A politician if I remember. Care to give us any update or DATA on that?
Rossi himself posted that he would be in production spring of 2017, that he had a new customer waiting and willing. June of 2017 was to bring new demos and production was to be in a new factory. Do you not remember ANY of that?
The problem with you AA, is that the only DATA you have is either "Rossi says" or conjectures from his acolytes such as Axil. And ALL of Rossi's proclamations for 7 years have been proven to be deceitful at best or out and out fraud. What DATA do you have that now gives ANY credence?
As you state... wait and see..... I HAVE personally waited for 7 years on Rossi. 7 years of the same..... lies, deceit and fraud. You want to "forget" all and start anew each day it seems. That is not babble, that is fact and data from verified sources. Your data?
-
A simple restatement of my position got the babblers excired again.
Pages of babble showed my position was unassailable.
-
Display More
In 2009 AA was defending Richard Weir of EEStore, and annoyed with those who took a skeptical view of Weir's fantastical claims, responding to a skeptic: "I don’t know why you are so down on EEStor." And AA made many additional contentless defenses against reasoned critics of EESTor. In January 2007 EEStor stated in a press release "EEStor, Inc. remains on track to begin shipping production 15 kilowatt-hour Electrical Energy Storage Units (EESU) to ZENN Motor Company in 2007 for use in their electric vehicles." (,Wikipedia). Fast forward to 2018, and Richard Weir no longer is involved with the company, and the company has no commercial product. When at the time a commenter stated that EEStor appeared to be committing fraud, AA defended them with "It is certainly a funny way of going about fraud. Spending money on the project and not looking for any more investments...". Weir conned Zenn motors into buying 70% of the company. It is still traded publicly in Canada and US, but changed it's name back to EEStor and hired some researchers to try to make money from a patent owned by the company - so far, with no success.
That same year (2009) AA was also defending BLP:, complaining that critics were moving the goalposts by initially claiming the need for "...one independent experiment to validate BLP’s claim.” and moving the goal posts to needing theory. AA, at least, took it on faith that BLP's claims of "excess energy of >30 kWhrs" was well beyond experimental error. Today BLP has moved past such pedestrian accomplishments of mere >30KWhrs excess energy, even though a successful replication of those 2009 claims would, if repeatable, almost certainly guarantee that 1) Randall Mills would get the Noble Prize, 2) all energy would be clean, 3) and Axil's clean water pumps would be powerable by BLP and saving hundreds of millions of lives annually. But now it's 2018 and Brilliant Light Power has not just changed their name, they've moved on to even more exciting technology (that nobody can access or replicate): the Suncell® which, according the the BLP website is like "Sunlight in a bottle".
In 2011, AA was writing articles expounding the benefits of Rossi's revolutionary discovery and insulting critics as "uninformed" and "pathological skeptics". He cited NASA testing E-Cats as support, asking why Rossi would give such an organization (NASA) the opportunity to demonstrate he is a fraud and liar. (Rossi's demo literally nearly blew up some NASA investigators - he was not invited back).
In 2011 AA was also defending Rossi against carefully reasoned and supported skepticism from Tom Clarke, who many on this blog know (some more intimately than others).
For 9 years, AA has provided continuous reflexive scorn for skeptics of free energy scams, with the same babbling and insults, as he imagines himself to have expert engineering insight and simultaneously genuinely believes he is neutral and "unfalsifiable".
Don't expect AA to stop babbling any time soon...
sig,
Love me some good EEstor rumors,
Followed it for a while.
Another product that was gonna be,
“Soon, any day now, almost ready,
looking for investors” exactly like
Rossi am his Ecat
-
I wonder if there are any current Rossi believers who are not also suckers for multiple other energy scams. I doubt it. People who buy into multiple free energy claims are faced with two choices: either they are especially gullible individuals or there are and have been lots of working over-unity devices that somehow have just never made it into the mainstream. Most people of at least average intelligence are quite confident that the explanation is the former and not the latter.
-
I think there are indeed many overunity energy devices that have never made it into the mainstream. However, I think a large number of them utilize variations of the same EVO (plasmoid, spheromak, micro-ball lightning, heavy electron, etc) technology. Papp's Noble Gas Engine, T. Henry Moray's various plasma tubes, Tesla's spark gaps and carbon button lamps, Paulo Correa's Pulsed Abnormal Glow Discharge device, Stanley Meyers HHO devices, and the list goes on: they all seem to be producing spheromaks and utilizing them to produce excess energy. There are many reasons that these technologies have never made it to the mainstream that are perfectly logical and reasonable. Obviously, the most damning problem is inventors syndrome: the pathogen takes hold immediately as soon as the inventor realizes there is money to be made. I've studied how this affliction has affected countless outside the box thinkers with very real technologies. Every time they suffer due to their lack of trusting anyone, paranoia, and greed. Next, I'd say that suppression is a very real problem. This does not always, or even very often, come in the form of agents in black suits. When it came to LENR, the primary problem were hot fusion scientists from MIT and elsewhere that desired to keep their funding. They lied and conspired to make cold fusion appear to be simple measurement error. With Nikola Tesla, the suppression of his work is even more documented: the destruction of his lab is indisputable fact. Also, he was cheated out of millions of dollars in royalties and died a poor man. If he'd been treated fairly, he would have commercialized round after round of new inventions. Finally, I think one problem is that some of the same people who are very creative in coming up with new technologies just happen to be slightly less than 100% mentally stable. The stress of the whole situation seems to push them into making irrational choices and decisions.
-
With Nikola Tesla, the suppression of his work is even more documented: the destruction of his lab is indisputable fact. Also, he was cheated out of millions of dollars in royalties and died a poor man. If he'd been treated fairly, he would have commercialized round after round of new inventions. Finally, I think one problem is that some of the same people who are very creative in coming up with new technologies just happen to be slightly less than 100% mentally stable. The stress of the whole situation seems to push them into making irrational choices and decisions.
Almost without exception the people who become top line engineers are guileless duffises. The exceptions are the ones who have the incredible traits of a sociopath in their complete lack of conscience, lack of empathy, remorse, guilt and shame and the conniving underhanded shrewdness of lawyers. Bill Gates and Steve Jobs are those exceptional engineers who have demonstrated this combination of sucessful traits and have made their mark big time on the commercial world. I see this combination of sucessful talents and qualities in Rossi.
-
Oh well, the two previous posts reminded me that there is a third explanation for the pan-believer syndrome.
-
Almost without exception the people who become top line engineers are guileless duffises. The exceptions are the ones who have the incredible traits of a sociopath in their complete lack of conscience, lack of empathy, remorse, guilt and shame and the conniving underhanded shrewdness of lawyers. Bill Gates and Steve Jobs are those exceptional engineers who have demonstrated this combination of sucessful traits and have made their mark big time on the commercial world. I see this combination of sucessful talents and qualities in Rossi.
Axil,
With the exception being that Gates & Jobs both made products that anyone anywhere can purchase, use and get value from,
Rossi has developed nothing of any value ever.
That’s a pretty significant difference don’t you think MJ?
-
Axil,
With the exception being that Gates & Jobs both made products that anyone anywhere can purchase, use and get value from,
Rossi has developed nothing of any value ever.
That’s a pretty significant difference don’t you think MJ?
i have to respectfully disagree. he at least ignited a decade old information/knowledge rich hobby that represent some value for armchair/junior/current/retired/unconventional scientist and skeptics. Alchemists inspired modern material scientists and physicists, shamans inspired modern medicine,neurosciences, even computer science let's give Rossi credit where credit is due.
-
i have to respectfully disagree. he at least ignited a decade old information/knowledge rich hobby that represent some value for armchair/junior/current/retired/unconventional scientist and skeptics. Alchemists inspired modern material scientists and physicists, shamans inspired modern medicine,neurosciences, even computer science let's give Rossi credit where credit is due.
As Director has pointed out, LENR has come and gone at least since the times of Tesla. LENR needs more than ever to emerge into the world of mass extinction and rising seas. The only way for this to happen is if LENR can make money in the marketplace. In these jaded times, money is power, money is all. If a faustian bargain is required, so be it.
-
QuarkX was 5 sigma certified according to Rossi, (however no evidence to support that claim).
More, there has never been any definition of what certification would require, since Rossi has never told us what his term 5 sigma means. It does however seem to have energised his acolytes, which is the point.
The distinction between Rossi and real engineers is not just that (real engineers) generate product, Rossi does not. Real engineers use real specifications to describe their soon to be generated product. Rossi does not do this; and wisely so, since real specifications can be tested and disproven.
AA might ask "is not 40MW output power real?". This however does not relate to any product of Rossi, putative or otherwise. Rossi has plans with an industrial partner to revolutionise the world of power generation with a device generating 40MW (of electricity out, or heat in - I'm not sure?) from turbines.
I, personally, think there is a decent chance that Rossi has such a "partner" using the word in its loosest form. That, somone somewhere in some big company is intrigued enough (and gullible enough) to have a meeting with Rossi on initial exploration of how this might go, with initial validation at no risk to the company. That is not impossible. Rossi is damaged goods but he remains charismatic and can play the "poor inventor screwed by IH" card he has so expensively (note his view of lawyers) bought himself.
The various flawed demos with Rossi explanations will follow. All it needs is someone who is susceptible to Rossi charm, suspicious of scientific experts, and of a mindset like Sam or AA here. To spend real money would maybe require more than one such person, but a lot of PR can be gained for Rossi without that, especially because after the IH debacle he is wealthy enough to self-fund, and senior technical staff at a company will be in a position to ask engineers to do blue sky feasibility plans without a budget.
This (speculative) scenario explains why Rossi loves bigger and bigger projects in which there is much non-ecat work to do before anything can be shown. All the work to scale up the initial "invention", and in this case to connect it to a turbine, can be done as real engineering based on Rossi's claims completely bypassing the problematic issue of real working devices.
It is ironic that AA thinks it inconceivable some industrial partner would do this based on flawed Rossi demos of a non-working device, using the "industrial partner" as validation, when AA himself seems pretty convinced by the long succession of flawed public Rossi demos. Rossi's story offers the prospect of high rewards, and to those susceptible a high risk can be tolerated for the possibility of this.
There has normally been a kernel of truth, however manufactured, in all Rossi's stories. The Doral "customer" evolved from communication Rossi had with the real Johnson Matthey, This, based on Discovery evidence, was nothing more concrete than Rossi enquiring how much it would cost to buy a large amount of platinum sponge, and then buying a tiny amount. That, in Rossi's mind, is turned into a deal with a customer which fell through necessitating Rossi to fake it.
