Her, Lewan, E48, EnergyCatalyzer, ECN's, have all gone quiet, or disappeared. Rossi launched a cottage industry of followers, and supporters in his heyday, and now the only one still active is ECW. That does not count the army of bloggers -of which I was once a part of, who realized they were duped, and slipped away.
Not many are made for the haul with A.R.
There are the Rossi skeptics that are made
for the job.
For fun, we usually present JONP questions first, and then the answers. Don't cheat now by peaking, but here are the answers. The questioner is not a sock puppet. Try and guess the question:
1- we are working on that, but not ready yet
2- enough
3- yes
4- do you prefer your heart or your lever?
5- theoretical work is very important, but not necessary, R&D and industrialization are necessary
6- no. Fire has been used by mankind for ten thousands of years also for industrial applications, basic for the industrial revolution, before the discovery of the chemical reactions of oxygen and the quantic status of the electrons mechanism.
Warm Regards,
A.R.
I do not matter much but I am curious what
you Engineers think of Give Dog a Bone.
This truck driver thinks he is a smart fellow.
Sam,
Make no mistake, there are many, many very smart people adding/contributing to this blog.
Academics, lab rats, engineers @ some scientists. All will be needed to crack this nut we call LENR, hopefully in my lifetime.
Yes, for this purpose it is necessary to do experiences under pressure, to create sheeted conditions in crust where this LENR occurs constantly!
Wow, 18 hours since anything about Rossi!
It even slipped off the front page. This will go down as a LF milestone, and means we are slowly putting this embarrassing LENR chapter behind us. Personally, I think it is because the believers have had the wind knocked out of them, after he said his partner would not be introduced this Jan. Setting up to be another charade. Will still be fun to follow him though.
I would agree that over the last several years the whole chapter has been tiring, frustrating, and painful. We've had to endure being lied to and manipulated. As I've said before, my number one complaint is the fact he misrepresented to the extreme his relationship (a lack of one actually) with Johnson Matthey. His claims of such a relationship boosted our hopes. When I found out the truth it irked me seriously. Manipulations, games, sloppy test methodologies, and ongoing secrets: the opposite of what we all hoped for when he first started sharing his results on the JONP. Moreover, even now, he claims that the partner will not be revealed in January; which, of course, is logical considering his affliction of inventors syndrome. Even if he has a real and legitimate partner, revealing them would wake up too many people to the reality of the E-Cat which could result in additional competition.
However, I don't think the E-Cat story is over. I actually think that his first systems probably utilized a method roughly analogous to Mizuno's system: except Rossi added a few extra factors that multiplied the output. They may have been temperamental and could have not always worked on demand as repeatedly as he claimed, but during some tests (such as the private ones Focardi conducted) and demonstrations (like the one Rossi performed for the Naval Research Laboratory) excess heat was produced. As his technology evolved, I think there were indeed reactors built and tested that generated excess heat. But all the drama and needless game playing has convinced many people that none of his systems ever worked, at all, and that the whole technology from the low temperature units to the hot cat to the Quark have been intentional fakes. I tremendously doubt this. But the problem is that even if various reactor designs worked well, Rossi's style and desire to have total market domination without giving away any of his IP could likely prevent any E-Cat from being commercialized. Unless Rossi almost miraculously can get a ton of funding from an investor or partner to build a massive robotized factory to churn out millions of SK units, he ain't gonna provide any proof the technology is real.
I guess I'm trying to describe how there's multiple ways to look at the current situation with Rossi without being a hyper excited "fan" or someone who claims the E-Cat has always been one massive fraud from start to finish.
Sam,
Make no mistake, there are many, many very smart people adding/contributing to this blog.
Academics, lab rats, engineers @ some scientists. All will be needed to crack this nut we call LENR, hopefully in my lifetime.
You are right about this. There are very smart people, and with money, following this blog. I know some of them. The problem is with the Rossi types. I want to thank the mods for keeping this an open honest discussion.
I would agree that over the last several years the whole chapter has been tiring, frustrating, and painful. We've had to endure being lied to and manipulated. As I've said before, my number one complaint is the fact he misrepresented to the extreme his relationship (a lack of one actually) with Johnson Matthey. His claims of such a relationship boosted our hopes. When I found out the truth it irked me seriously. Manipulations, games, sloppy test methodologies, and ongoing secrets: the opposite of what we all hoped for when he first started sharing his results on the JONP. Moreover, even now, he claims that the partner will not be revealed in January; which, of course, is logical considering his affliction of inventors syndrome. Even if he has a real and legitimate partner, revealing them would wake up too many people to the reality of the E-Cat which could result in additional competition.
However, I don't think the E-Cat story is over. I actually think that his first systems probably utilized a method roughly analogous to Mizuno's system: except Rossi added a few extra factors that multiplied the output. They may have been temperamental and could have not always worked on demand as repeatedly as he claimed, but during some tests (such as the private ones Focardi conducted) and demonstrations (like the one Rossi performed for the Naval Research Laboratory) excess heat was produced. As his technology evolved, I think there were indeed reactors built and tested that generated excess heat. But all the drama and needless game playing has convinced many people that none of his systems ever worked, at all, and that the whole technology from the low temperature units to the hot cat to the Quark have been intentional fakes. I tremendously doubt this. But the problem is that even if various reactor designs worked well, Rossi's style and desire to have total market domination without giving away any of his IP could likely prevent any E-Cat from being commercialized. Unless Rossi almost miraculously can get a ton of funding from an investor or partner to build a massive robotized factory to churn out millions of SK units, he ain't gonna provide any proof the technology is real.
I guess I'm trying to describe how there's multiple ways to look at the current situation with Rossi without being a hyper excited "fan" or someone who claims the E-Cat has always been one massive fraud from start to finish.
Director,
How can any reasonable person be expected to believe anything that
Andrea Rossi ever says?
By most counts over the past 7+ years he has shown himself to be either a pathological liar, or, a paranoid schizophrenic.
Personally, I stopped believing that steaming raft of turd many years ago.
Roseland,
Then I'm assuming you feel the same way about Sergio Focardi, and you believe he's a steaming raft of turd as well and every bit the sleaze ball as Andrea Rossi? Because he was a competent, smart physicist who performed a number of different tests on the early E-Cats. These tests resulted in COPs that reached the hundreds on some occasions. If Rossi never had anything, then, by extension, you have to believe that Focardi was some sort of fraudulent co-conspirator. I don't buy that for a moment.
No. The rational answer is that some of Rossi's systems did indeed work, and Focardi accurately tested their input/output.
Roseland,
Then I'm assuming you feel the same way about Sergio Focardi, and you believe he's a steaming raft of turd as well and every bit the sleaze ball as Andrea Rossi? Because he was a competent, smart physicist who performed a number of different tests on the early E-Cats. These tests resulted in COPs that reached the hundreds on some occasions. If Rossi never had anything, then, by extension, you have to believe that Focardi was some sort of fraudulent co-conspirator. I don't buy that for a moment.
No. The rational answer is that some of Rossi's systems did indeed work, and Focardi accurately tested their input/output.
That is NOT what I said, wrote or implied,
it is only what you inferred.
When people have to twist, turn and pervert what is plainly written to fit their argument,
(Just as you have done), it is usually because their argument is weak and will collapse without doing so.
Roseland,
Then I'm assuming you feel the same way about Sergio Focardi, and you believe he's a steaming raft of turd as well and every bit the sleaze ball as Andrea Rossi? Because he was a competent, smart physicist who performed a number of different tests on the early E-Cats. These tests resulted in COPs that reached the hundreds on some occasions. If Rossi never had anything, then, by extension, you have to believe that Focardi was some sort of fraudulent co-conspirator. I don't buy that for a moment.
No. The rational answer is that some of Rossi's systems did indeed work, and Focardi accurately tested their input/output.
Director,
Many here do not feel that about Focardi or others. You need to realize that a person can be honest, intelligent and still be deceived by a liar. Or even as THH suspects, one that even believes his own lies / delusions such as Rossi.
Look at history. Read about the Cardiff GIant, Lochness Monster and others. These fables had several intelligent and accredited people believing for quite some time! Bernie Madoff did not walk into peoples houses and "steal" their money from their wall safes. He scammed them. Many of these people were smart and intelligent as well! These "Focardis" were all taken in. To the extreme side of things, look at some of the cults that ended in mass suicide! Jonestown and Heaven's Gate for example. Literally hundreds of people followed two individuals with outlandish claims.... and followed them to their deaths! These were not mentally handicapped people. They were from all walks of life.
What do all these people have in common? They have a item in life that they want to be true very badly. Bigfoot watches really, really, really want Big Foot to be real.
Heaven's Gate people really, really, really wanted their to be aliens behind that comet to take them to paradise. Madoff's victims really, really, really wanted to make a lot of money.
Focardi and others are not immune to this. I was not immune to it. I followed Rossi early on as a supporter. He was (actually his supporters on ECW) very convincing at first. He painted a picture of a subject that I really wanted to be true...… clean energy. But soon HIS OWN actions proved that he was a liar. Not the skeptics, not the trolls, but HIS OWN actions.
You have acknowledged that Rossi is a liar. You seem to feel that people in certain positions could not be tricked or scammed such as Focardi. Well, you should reconsider that position. For one, we do not really know how close Rossi worked with Focardi. Yes, a few photos and a lot of "Rossi says". But we know about "Rossi says" do we not. How much do we REALLY know about Rossi and Focardi. We also know that Rossi worked with many smart people, most soon washed their hand of him. Focardi passed away before he may have done the same.
Remember this, for every one scientist/acquaintance you can hold up as being a Rossi supporter, there are probably 10 former supporters who now will tell you the real story. Such as you claim Focardi…. I say would Seimens, National Instruments, NASA, ABB and "the several aerospace engineers" have all walked away from the invention of the ages? Hardly.
Here is what you should consider in my opinion. Hard data and facts. The fact is, Rossi has never presented a valid test, test results or test setup that he did not completely control and even admitted to tampering with. None! Even Lugano was completely controlled by him. He has ZERO credibility now for any tests, which casts very severe doubts on early ones that appeared interesting. Remember, we do not know all about those tests as most were not really trying to "Catch him" at the scam game at the time. He likely tampered with those as well, very easily.
You state the rational answer is that some worked.... I state the rational and "proven from recent tests" is that Rossi lies, deceives and scams. Since he could "go back" and demonstrate his early successes, he could and earn his coveted Nobel prize. The rational answer to this is that he does NOT because he CANNOT. He does not have nor ever did have a working reactor of energy out > than energy in.
It would be interesting to understand your response to the above. Is it that Focardi could not be fooled?
Thank you.
Display MoreDirector,
Many here do not feel that about Focardi or others. You need to realize that a person can be honest, intelligent and still be deceived by a liar. Or even as THH suspects, one that even believes his own lies / delusions such as Rossi.
Look at history. Read about the Cardiff GIant, Lochness Monster and others. These fables had several intelligent and accredited people believing for quite some time! Bernie Madoff did not walk into peoples houses and "steal" their money from their wall safes. He scammed them. Many of these people were smart and intelligent as well! These "Focardis" were all taken in. To the extreme side of things, look at some of the cults that ended in mass suicide! Jonestown and Heaven's Gate for example. Literally hundreds of people followed two individuals with outlandish claims.... and followed them to their deaths! These were not mentally handicapped people. They were from all walks of life.
What do all these people have in common? They have a item in life that they want to be true very badly. Bigfoot watches really, really, really want Big Foot to be real.
Heaven's Gate people really, really, really wanted their to be aliens behind that comet to take them to paradise. Madoff's victims really, really, really wanted to make a lot of money.
Focardi and others are not immune to this. I was not immune to it. I followed Rossi early on as a supporter. He was (actually his supporters on ECW) very convincing at first. He painted a picture of a subject that I really wanted to be true...… clean energy. But soon HIS OWN actions proved that he was a liar. Not the skeptics, not the trolls, but HIS OWN actions.
You have acknowledged that Rossi is a liar. You seem to feel that people in certain positions could not be tricked or scammed such as Focardi. Well, you should reconsider that position. For one, we do not really know how close Rossi worked with Focardi. Yes, a few photos and a lot of "Rossi says". But we know about "Rossi says" do we not. How much do we REALLY know about Rossi and Focardi. We also know that Rossi worked with many smart people, most soon washed their hand of him. Focardi passed away before he may have done the same.
Remember this, for every one scientist/acquaintance you can hold up as being a Rossi supporter, there are probably 10 former supporters who now will tell you the real story. Such as you claim Focardi…. I say would Seimens, National Instruments, NASA, ABB and "the several aerospace engineers" have all walked away from the invention of the ages? Hardly.
Here is what you should consider in my opinion. Hard data and facts. The fact is, Rossi has never presented a valid test, test results or test setup that he did not completely control and even admitted to tampering with. None! Even Lugano was completely controlled by him. He has ZERO credibility now for any tests, which casts very severe doubts on early ones that appeared interesting. Remember, we do not know all about those tests as most were not really trying to "Catch him" at the scam game at the time. He likely tampered with those as well, very easily.
You state the rational answer is that some worked.... I state the rational and "proven from recent tests" is that Rossi lies, deceives and scams. Since he could "go back" and demonstrate his early successes, he could and earn his coveted Nobel prize. The rational answer to this is that he does NOT because he CANNOT. He does not have nor ever did have a working reactor of energy out > than energy in.
It would be interesting to understand your response to the above. Is it that Focardi could not be fooled?
Thank you.
LENR Foum Public Service Anniuncement:
Bob and Roseland67 are not the same person, not related in any way, not on anyone’s payroll and have never met.
We simply have very similar opinions of all things Andrea Rossi and Ecat.
How about Adrian and Sam?
Adrian and Sam are not at all alike in personality. I suppose Adrian could be Sam’s surly grandfather or, judging by the tone of Sam’s comments, great-grandfather.
Adrian and Sam are not at all alike in personality. I suppose Adrian could be Sam’s surly grandfather or, judging by the tone of Sam’s comments, great-grandfather.
or the Curmudgeon that screams
“Get off my lawn” to the neighborhood kids
Shane,
The Rossi/Ecat “Bullshit-o-meter” pegged at 11 many, many years ago, the fan club is finally coming to grips with the fact that this guy is running a scam and they fell for it because they weren’t smart enough to see thru it.
I must partially disagree. IMO the "fan club" will never come to grips with reality. Also, I don't believe they fell for Rossi's BS because they are not smart enough -- I think they possess the raw intellectual horse power to see through Rossi's BS but IMO they are so psychologically invested in their adoration of Rossi that they are not capable of dealing with the reality of who and what Rossi actually is.
When you read what his acolytes say, you can see that they have to acknowledge that Rossi has lied, cheated, etc. But they always defend such actions by providing Rossi with an alibi, e.g., Rossie had to cheat, etc. in order to protect his IP, because his partners are not trustworthy, or because the Russians stole the fuel. All of Rossi's moral failings are always someone else's fault.
Someone was asking about a "cease and desist order" against Rossi. Indeed there is one and it, and related official correspondence are here:
https://files.acrobat.com/a/pr…03-4fa7-adde-3eb5d60b5c1a
This is very long therefore here is the gist of it (in my opinion) in a consultant report-- Rossi is not an engineer. Nobody who is currently working with Rossi is an engineer. Making heaters requires engineers. Rossi is not authorized to represent himself or his company as engineers. These are public documents. You can use them any way you like.
Rossi is busted AGAIN.
Mentioned parenthetically, Rossi had "major surgery" about the same time.
Sorry if this is redundant. I have no time to keep up with the threads.
QuoteCWatters wrote:
This is the first i have heard of him actually being hit with a C&D. Where did you read that?
Apparently there is also a new complaint, in part:
QuoteContrary to the above[C&D order], it appears that Mr. Rossi and his Leonardo Corporation have knowingly and willfully failed to comply with the terms and conditions of the FBPE's "Cease and Desist" Notice. Despite the fact that Mr. Rossi signed his affidavit over one month ago, his ecat.com website is still up and running on the internet (https://ecat.com/) and Rossi and his Leonardo Corporation continue to offer E-Cat devices for sale and lease and to solicit "investors" in his purported technology. Rossi even claims to be currently designing and constructing a "40-Megawatt" E-Cat power plant for a "Client" (from his rossilivecat.com website):
QuoteI think that Rossi was using his own money from the beginning too. Only years later he was trying to attract investors or a licensee.
Rossi was using money obtained from other confidence schemes (con jobs). For decades, certainly since Petroldragon, Rossi has lived off of lies, deception and illegal activities. For example, much of the money to make original ecats came from the totally failed project for the US Army to make high efficiency thermoelectric converters. Rossi ripped off millions with that obvious scam. His excuse? The dog ate his homework (there was a fire). There is nothing in Rossi's past to suggest that in the past three decades, he has made his own money legitimately. And the only possibly legitimate business he has now is real estate investment using ill begotten gains -- a process essentially akin to money laundering.
Apparently there is also a new complaint, in part:
Where is this new complaint? What is the URL?
From part of the Complaint (PDF page 40):
"
The permit applicant is required by the FBC-B to submit project documents to the
local building official as part of a permit application. FBC-B Section 107.3.5
"Minimum plan review criteria for buildings" states:
The examination of the documents by the building official shall include the
following minimum criteria and documents: a floor plan; site plan;
foundation plan; floor/roof framíng plan or truss layout; all fenestratíon
penetratíons; flashing; and rough opening dímensions; and all exterior
elevation:
"
Note: Fenestration penetrations includes window alterations. (!!!!)
(If one has ever been literally defenestrated, it will be long remembered [if survived].)
