Why not collect money and find donators and setup a fake company that is eagerly looking for saving some $$$ by using 20% cheaper heat from a black box
Even if we could form a legitimate company to try and strike a deal with Rossi, I bet he would turn it down. Hopefully one day we learn who this new customer is. Hard for me to believe he would be legitimate, but you never know.
DR,
Thx for checking. You never know until you try. As I recall, Engineer48 tried to buy some 1MW Doral style plants for a client, and Rossi either refused, or never responded. For a man claiming as far back as 2008, to have working Ecats heating his factory in Italy, and claiming the market will decide his technology...he has been remarkably market averse. Does not bode well for those still believing in him.
Whatever happened to Engineer48?
Still active in non-LENR subjects, as far as I am aware of.
E48 and I are regularly in touch - he is busy with another project these days.
I have said nothing wrong but I am told to keep quiet.
I have watched for 7+ years in detail the Rossi drama. I have seen people come an go. I have watched ECW become a protectorate where Rossi is protected because he cannot protect himself (by his own actions). Defiance against him is not tolerated. What direction is LENR Forum heading? What now needs silencing because of "words that are not wrong"?
Yes, it probably is time for me to move on......but in a different way.
Frank allows defiance remarks against Rossi on ECW but does not
allow them if they are repeated by
the same person.
BTW I have a better understanding
of Rossi by reading the skeptics
comments on Rossi and his technology.
This is for the record-no response from AR to two e-mails so far-so I'm just wasting my time and he is probably just wasting ours. Worth a go at a yes or no answer if nobody has ever been dumb enough to ask this before........I give up!
I am not surprised that he did not
respond.But good for you for giving
it a try.
A couple of interesting comments
from A.R.
Dear Andrea:
Do you expect that the January demonstration will be a validation of your work with enough coverage to excite the alternate energy community? Should this happen are you prepared for the media circus that will follow?
Good luck and thank you.
John C Evans
John C Evans:
Thanks to you for your kind attention to the work of our team.
The aim of the January 31st presentation is not to get a validation. We are presenting a service that is based on an industrial production, not on a prototype that needs to be validated. The goal of the presentation is commercial, not scientific and has to be object of clear distinction from a work of R&D, that we continue to do, and of theoretical study, that we continue to do.
We are prepared to answer the questions we will receive: any kind of questions.
Warm Regards,
A.R.
Can you give some information about the main events relate to the Ecat from now to the January 31st presentation?
Prof:
Next week a thoroughly series of experiments oriented toward the theoretical bases of the effect, and the results will be communicated to all the members that are working with me upon theoretical issues; the last week of November and during December our Clients will visit us to see the SK in operation and define details.
Warm Regards,
A.R.
It seems E48 gave up long ago to understand how Rossi’s MW plant worked, didn‘t he? Or did he find out in the end that it didn’t produce any EH?
DR,
Thx for checking. You never know until you try. As I recall, Engineer48 tried to buy some 1MW Doral style plants for a client, and Rossi either refused, or never responded. For a man claiming as far back as 2008, to have working Ecats heating his factory in Italy, and claiming the market will decide his technology...he has been remarkably market averse. Does not bode well for those still believing in him.
The Doral plant, even if it did produce some level of excess heat, was no where close to a commercialized product. Moreover, Rossi is never going to allow other parties to have hardware that is out of his control. He is market adverse because he will NEVER flat out sell an E-Cat. He wants to have an empire where he can sell billions of dollars worth of heat to his customers without risking his IP.
Whatever happened to Engineer48?
he turned 49 and came to his senses
The Doral plant, even if it did produce some level of excess heat, was no where close to a commercialized product. Moreover, Rossi is never going to allow other parties to have hardware that is out of his control. He is market adverse because he will NEVER flat out sell an E-Cat. He wants to have an empire where he can sell billions of dollars worth of heat to his customers without risking his IP.
Director,
Think about it for jut 1 minute.
You’re a business owner with a need for heat, you arrange a purchase of said heat from Rossi.
Rossi installs Ecat at your facility and there are in fact great savings due to the excess heat provided by the ecat.
You then realize, correctly so, that this Ecat is actually producing Energy Out > Energy In
Which you have been told is impossible,
making his Ecat the greatest invitation since electric light and it is in YOUR factory, under your lock and key and security.
Do you honestly believe that any company with above Ecat, is going to be content to just save money? They’re not going to take it apart and reverse engineer it because Rossi May have a patent, or an NDA or a
“Do not tamper” sticker on it?
No one is that gullible and naïve, no one,
not even Adrian
Please think about it before you answer
Display MoreDirector,
Think about it for jut 1 minute.
You’re a business owner with a need for heat, you arrange a purchase of said heat from Rossi.
Rossi installs Ecat at your facility and there are in fact great savings due to the excess heat provided by the ecat.
You then realize, correctly so, that this Ecat is actually producing Energy Out > Energy In
Which you have been told is impossible,
making his Ecat the greatest invitation since electric light and it is in YOUR factory, under your lock and key and security.
Do you honestly believe that any company with above Ecat, is going to be content to just save money? They’re not going to take it apart and reverse engineer it because Rossi May have a patent, or an NDA or a
“Do not tamper” sticker on it?
No one is that gullible and naïve, no one,
not even Adrian
Please think about it before you answer
Exactly, if the "Russians" would break into IH (as claimed by Rossi) to take the fuel from a loaded cat, what would prevent them from taking a whole device "parked" in someone's warehouse? Such arguments of Rossi are just misdirection.
The Doral plant, even if it did produce some level of excess heat, was no where close to a commercialized product. Moreover, Rossi is never going to allow other parties to have hardware that is out of his control. He is market adverse because he will NEVER flat out sell an E-Cat. He wants to have an empire where he can sell billions of dollars worth of heat to his customers without risking his IP.
Director,
this is from the up to date, offical Rossi/Leonardo Corporation web site "ecat.com", 2018-11-09 21:16 MEZ
Products ->
This is Rossi himselft offering this, right now for anybody to pre-order..
QX's? SK's?
Sign up and pre-order, and secure your place on a waiting list with the right to priority treatment and faster product delivery. All pre-orders will be followed by a proposal from Leonardo Corporation, when the timing is right.
The ECAT 1MW plant contains 4 ECAT modules of 250kW each mounted in a shipping container. Warranty for functionality is two years with a guaranteed COP of 6, and the plant has an expected life span of 20 years.
The ECAT 1MW plant is constructed inside an international standardized 20ft container which can easily be transferred between different modes of transportation (e.g. ships, air cargo, trains, and trucks).
The plant consumes small amounts of treated Nickel powder and Lithium aluminum hydride (LiAlH₄) The plant is recharged by specially trained and certified personnel.
Pre-orders are accepted from all over the world and require a routine due-diligence process. Customers must comply with several criteria set by Leonardo Corporation in order to qualify for a purchase of an ECAT 1MW plant.
ECAT 1 MW Plant is a Heat Plant with 1 MW of thermal output through a normal pressure warm water/steam outlet. It can easily be coupled to a secondary high pressure loop for local or district heating
ECAT 1 MW Plant is made up of 4 modules. These modules produce 250 kWh/h of heat each and are built into a 20′ container.
ECAT 1 MW Plant produces energy through a so-called LENR process. No combustion takes place; instead the Rossi Effect is responsible for the release of vast amounts of energy
Due to its structure, the ECAT 1MW plant is extremely easy to use. It is delivered in a standard container which can be stacked if your solution requires multiple ECAT 1MW plants. It also has a convenient plug’n’serve design that makes installation straightforward.
Here in the UK if someone makes claims in an advert that you don't believe can be substantiated you can complain to the Advertising Standards Authority and they will ask the manufacturer to justify the claims they have made. If they cannot then the ASA will instruct them not to repeat the claims and possibly fine them if they do.
I myself have filed a few complaints and have had all upheld, although sometimes the manufacturer can drag things out for many months.
Does anything similar exist in the USA or Canada?
Here are some of my notes about the time Celani detected gamma emissions.
Celani detects gamma emissions during the January 14, 2011 Rossi Test
Villa reported no gamma emissions or other radiation significantly above background from the Rossi device. Celani, however, said that he did detect something. Here are the details he related to me at ICCF16, from my notes and with corrections from Celani.
Celani attended the demonstration on Jan. 14. The device did not work at first. He and others were waiting impatiently in a room next to the room with the device. He estimates that he was around 6 m from the device. He had two battery-powered detectors:
Both were turned on as he waited. The sodium iodide detector was in count mode rather than spectrum mode; that is, it just tells the number of counts per second. Both showed what Celani considers normal background for Italy at that elevation. As he was waiting, suddenly, during a 1-second interval both detectors were saturated. That is to say, they both registered counts off the scale. The following seconds the NaI detector returned to nomal. The Geiger counter had to be switched off to “delete” the “overrange,” which was >7.5 microsievert/hour, and later switched on again.
About 1 to 2 minutes after this event, Rossi emerged from the other room and said the machine just turned on and the demonstration was underway.
Celani commented that the only conventional source of gamma rays far from a nuclear reactor would be a rare event: a cosmic ray impact on the atmosphere producing proton storm shower of particles. He and I agreed it is extremely unlikely this happened coincidentally the same moment the reactor started . . . Although, come to think of it, perhaps the causality is reversed, and the cosmic ray triggered the Rossi device.
Another scientist said perhaps both detectors malfunctioned because of an electromagnetic source in the building or some other prosaic source. Celani considers this unrealistic because he also had in operation battery-operated radio frequency detectors: an ELF (Extremely Low Frequency) and RF (COM environmental microwave monitor), both made by Perspective Scientific. No radio frequency anomalies were detected.
. . .
Here are a couple of additional comments from Celani:
a) The NaI (Tl) gamma detector had an energy range from 25 to 2000 keV;
b) Celani asked, in several public mail to Rossi, that for a conclusive SCIENTIFIC demonstration of such wonderful device, the maximum temperature of the outgoing water has to be <90°C so that CONVENTIONAL flow calorimetry can be used (rather than phase-change calorimetry).
Display MoreHere are some of my notes about the time Celani detected gamma emissions.
Celani detects gamma emissions during the January 14, 2011 Rossi Test
Villa reported no gamma emissions or other radiation significantly above background from the Rossi device. Celani, however, said that he did detect something. Here are the details he related to me at ICCF16, from my notes and with corrections from Celani.
Celani attended the demonstration on Jan. 14. The device did not work at first. He and others were waiting impatiently in a room next to the room with the device. He estimates that he was around 6 m from the device. He had two battery-powered detectors:
- A sodium iodide gamma detector (NaI), set for 1 s acquisition time.
- A Geiger counter (model GEM Radalert II, Perspective Scientific), which was set to 10 s acquisition time.
Both were turned on as he waited. The sodium iodide detector was in count mode rather than spectrum mode; that is, it just tells the number of counts per second. Both showed what Celani considers normal background for Italy at that elevation. As he was waiting, suddenly, during a 1-second interval both detectors were saturated. That is to say, they both registered counts off the scale. The following seconds the NaI detector returned to nomal. The Geiger counter had to be switched off to “delete” the “overrange,” which was >7.5 microsievert/hour, and later switched on again.
About 1 to 2 minutes after this event, Rossi emerged from the other room and said the machine just turned on and the demonstration was underway.
Celani commented that the only conventional source of gamma rays far from a nuclear reactor would be a rare event: a cosmic ray impact on the atmosphere producing proton storm shower of particles. He and I agreed it is extremely unlikely this happened coincidentally the same moment the reactor started . . . Although, come to think of it, perhaps the causality is reversed, and the cosmic ray triggered the Rossi device.
Another scientist said perhaps both detectors malfunctioned because of an electromagnetic source in the building or some other prosaic source. Celani considers this unrealistic because he also had in operation battery-operated radio frequency detectors: an ELF (Extremely Low Frequency) and RF (COM environmental microwave monitor), both made by Perspective Scientific. No radio frequency anomalies were detected.
. . .
Here are a couple of additional comments from Celani:
a) The NaI (Tl) gamma detector had an energy range from 25 to 2000 keV;
b) Celani asked, in several public mail to Rossi, that for a conclusive SCIENTIFIC demonstration of such wonderful device, the maximum temperature of the outgoing water has to be <90°C so that CONVENTIONAL flow calorimetry can be used (rather than phase-change calorimetry).
Jed,
Don’t know cause I wasn’t there, BUT,
could these “anomalies” have been
power quality events.
High/low voltage/current harmonic distortion type electrical event that triggered the product to register odd #, reset and go back to background?
That is the most preposterous claim. There is not one shred of evidence that a production line is being built. "Leonardo Corporation" does not have a facility to build a production line in. The address is his condo. Don't you think there would be some evidence if in fact a manufacturing site existed?
The factory and production line are being built in RossiVille, a land so enchanted and magical that nothing being built requires permits or other bureaucratic hindrances advocated by babblers and where anything can be built without the aid or use of engineers, contractors or even construction workers. Unfortunately, RossiVille is difficult to locate: some claim that it is adjacent to FantasyLand and across from TomorrowLan, but, as with much of what RossiSays, there is no proof of its actual existence.
@Bob. A report about what exactly? The things you can see in great detail on the videos in circulation? Scientifically it wasn't proof of anything except that it wasn't proof of anything. The videos in particular make it pointless of me to spend time writing about my own impression of what the pictures show in great detai. what I did write about was the people I met there, and their approach to Rossi, and the general tenor of the crowd. That I thought was interesting.
I have no idea about any Rossi devices after the the tests in Ferrara, Lugano, and NC. After that it gets weird.
I have to completely disagree with you here Alan. I have repeated stated that I don't understand the engineering or science involved here, which makes me rely on those with the expertise to interpret and explain what happened/did not happen and why and how something was supposed to happen and if it didn't, why not. IMO this is made worse by your continued insistence on the "it was a demo" despite Rossi's statements to the contrary. If you sole role is to state that you are merely a bystander, then you have no basis to criticize anyone who says something negative about Rossi/his widgets. After all, if you rationale for not commenting/explaining re: Stockholm is that anyone can just watch the video, then there is no need for you to criticize anything posted that is negative about Rossi -- after all, we can all read the posts ourselves.
You do yourself, and your arguments, no good by adopting such an obvious pretext for your silence. That is the approach of a judicial nominee who says, "no, I have never though about whether or not [__________] is constitutional" when we all know that claim is a load of manure. Don't degrade yourself to that level.
Bob,
You are not being told to keep quiet. You are free to continue on with your valuable insights of Rossi, and everyone, and all things else. Only exception, is I am asking you to refrain from any further criticisms about Alan and his role in Stockholm. Even that is not an attempt to muzzle you, as you have already stated your frustration about that many times over the past year. It is just getting repetitive, and serves no purpose to belabor the point any further, other than to humiliate a Moderator and valuable member of the forum.
It may surprise you, but I was taken to task twice by the Mods before becoming a Mod myself. I simply accepted their role, took it as a lesson learned as to what I could say, and not say, and moved on. Now on to other things.
I have to completely disagree with this. What you are explicitly saying is that if the moderators don't like what someone says, and we are not talking about profanity, ad hominem attacks, doxxing or anything similar, but if the moderators don't like the line of your discussion, you should shut up. I quote your language "took it as a lesson learned as to what I could say, and not say." So, if I am a good little boy (which, trust me, is very unlikely) then maybe someday I can grow up and become a moderator.
I also note your reference to "other than to humiliate a Moderator and valuable member of the forum." One can only be humiliated if there is something about which to be humiliated. Are you saying that you believe AS should be humiliated or that there is something about which AS should be humiliated? I don't, at least not yet.
Bob has been attacked for making a rational, well-reasoned argument. If you disagree with the postulates of his argument, then state your disagreement. But to suggest that he shut up because it bothers you, that doesn't border on censorship, that rides a panzer across the line of censorship.
This approach concerns me that different standards are being applied to certain people. Bob is attacked for revisiting, what to me, is a legitimate issue that has not been resolved (as I discussed in a post above) and is being told to shut up. AA engages in ad hominem attacks, including against me, and, AFAIK, no moderator has told him to shut up. I may be wrong, I hope I am -- but the recent responses to Bob greatly concern me.
I realize that the owner/administrator/the powers that be of this forum have the absolute right to do anything they want here, subject to civil tort law, e.g., defamation, etc., and that, despite what many may believe, there is no First Amendment issue here. But I also believe that the utility, social or personal, of a forum such as this depends on their being allowed a generally free exchange of thoughts and opinions. But if this is going to start only allowing "approved" thought, then this will turn into an echo chamber of no utility or value to anyone.
woodworker when Alan says just watch the video, maybe he means that experience being physically present in the room is no different.
