Rossi-Blog Comment Discussion

  • woodworker everybody was expecting it to be a test but Rossi did a demo of how he plans to connect his future reactos to future control box.

    During the demo, the device connected to the power outlet produced measurable heat using unspecified amount of electricity.

    There was also a handsome swedish speaking physics to give a show a bit of credibility and sweeting the pill for those who paid money from the trip.

    I think it is fair to call it a demo.

  • Oh brother,


    WW, you are taking Bob's molehill, and trying to turn it into a mountain. As even you would have to admit, Bob had his say many times on the one issue at hand, yet here he is...still. Does that sound like "if the Mods don't like the line of discussion, you should shut up", as you say? Come on, give me a break.


    Bob was not "attacked", and even I agree he has "well reasoned arguments", so obviously I have no problems with "the postulates of his argument", whatever that means. To the contrary, I have tried my best to make my point without running him off, as he is an important contributor here at LF, and is highly respected. He and I go back to the ECN's days. He stood out even back then.


    How about we just cut the crap? This is a talk forum. We Mods are volunteers. We do not get paid, and dedicate more hours than you could imagine to the cause of saving the planet. We may not be perfect, but by golly, I think we are doing a hell of a good job. LF is growing ever more influential every week. Alan's contribution is largely responsible for that. Without his steady hand at the till the past few years, this place would be nothing.


    In addition, he is one of the few in the world doing the research, attending and presenting at the conferences, and in his spare time introducing his Hydrogen Mine to market. Good news on that front, and hopefully soon word will leak out. So if you and Bob, or anyone else here, want to keep rubbing Alan's nose in the mud over Stockholm...sorry, you will get some push back from me.

  • bang99 I am surprised to see the description of his ecat still up on Rossi's site given the cease and desist order the Florida Board of Professional Engineers (FBPE) issued him last summer. The material that you have copied and posted actually formed part of the evidence the FBPE used to find that Rossi was practicing engineering without a license.

  • bang99 I am surprised to see the description of his ecat still up on Rossi's site given the cease and desist order the Florida Board of Professional Engineers (FBPE) issued him last summer. The material that you have copied and posted actually formed part of the evidence the FBPE used to find that Rossi was practicing engineering without a license.

    Yes, Bruce, and it is also to see on hydrofusion.com / Products

    Since years ...


    And, last but not least, the famous ERV-Report for the 1MW Doral incident, with the short summary:


    "The Expert Responsible for Validation certifies that for a period of 350 days the ECAT 1MW plant consistently produced energy exceeding six times the energy consumed. Thus the guaranteed performance was accordingly achieved.
    From the annexes of the report one can read of daily Coefficient Of Performance (COP) factors ranging from 63 to 139 with an average of around COP 80 for the whole 350 day period
    ."


    So, doing advertisement /take pre-orders for a product that, as Rossi says, is abandoned.


    Okay, the solution is as simple as it could be:

    Someone just forgot to update the sites :-)

    Someone was too busy to blog about exiting new E-Skat thingies ...

  • woodworker when Alan says just watch the video, maybe he means that experience being physically present in the room is no different.

    This ignores my entire point. Whether in person or video, as a non-technical/science person I am looking for help in interpreting the "demo." If AS is now going to take the position that he was not there as anything other than a passive bystander, why bother going?

  • woodworker everybody was expecting it to be a test but Rossi did a demo of how he plans to connect his future reactos to future control box.

    During the demo, the device connected to the power outlet produced measurable heat using unspecified amount of electricity.

    There was also a handsome swedish speaking physics to give a show a bit of credibility and sweeting the pill for those who paid money from the trip.

    I think it is fair to call it a demo.

    So, despite the fact that everyone apparently expected a test and Rossi apparently considers it a successful test, it is now a "demo." Tell me, what was it a demo of? You state of "plans to connect his future reactos to future control box" so we didn't get a demo of anything real that existed at the time of the "demo." You further state that "the device connected to the power outlet produced measurable heat using unspecified amount of electricity." So we don't know the input values, which even I, as a complete geek when it comes to this, can see as a problem. Lastly, you close with "There was also a handsome swedish speaking physics to give a show a bit of credibility and sweeting the pill for those who paid money from the trip." Wow, talk about really selling validity of the widget, there was a handsome swedish speaking physics person. Now I understand. I am ready to invest millions. Clearly, having a handsome swedish speaking physics person is the ultimate key to validating a scientific test.


    Mr. Nozin, I don't believe your arguments are making your case any stronger or really helping.

  • I appreciate your volunteering, and I suspect I know just how much work it takes. I say that because I just came back from a ten day trip to Nevada, as a volunteer poll observer. I didn't get paid, I won't get reimbursed for my flight, my hotel, my car, the donuts and bagels I bought for the poll workers every morning or the lunches I bought or the pizzas I bought for voters waiting line for over an hour because 6 out of 8 voting machines went down. I have done this three times in Las Vegas, Nevada and three times in Cincinnati, Ohio (I live in California). Note I am not saying which party I represented. I also participate, some might say agitate, between elections in both politics and other issues. I completely understand how much time and effort you put in, and I do appreciate it.


    But it seems to the answer to this issue is not less discussion but, if you don't like what someone posts and feel it repetitive, then ignore it.


    And no, I don't believe this is making a mountain out of a molehill, I believe it is stopping going down a slippery slope. We all have seen forums where the discussion is taking over by rabid, insult throwing, non-rationale posters. That is not this forum, thankfully so, in large part due to the efforts of the moderators. But we all have also seen forums where moderators shut down discussions that they deem repetitive or not productive and seen those forums die because posted feel censored and leave. I realize that is a fine line, but I would err on the side of my discussion not less. If people don't like what a particular poster says, they can ignore him (as AA keeps saying he is going to do with me). I disagree with AA on many issues, but I wouldn't want him to stop posting.


    And let us just assume for a moment that Bob is completely wrong and is being a jackass on this point. He isn't using profanity, he remains civil, what harm is he doing? If AS has his feelings hurt, AS is a big boy and should be able to handle. I know I have had far worse said about me by AA. If you don't like what Bob says, ignore it.


  • WW,


    While I disagree with what you say on a few minor points, overall it was well said. Especially so about the slippery slope. That not only applies to the perils of suppressing ideas by over moderating -as you are suggesting may be the case with Bob, but also there is the danger of under moderating to the point things run amuck. I have seen forums fail for both reasons. That brings us to the old adage about walking that fine line, and how good we Admins/Mods are at that balancing act will determine LF's success. So far, so good though, so we must be doing something right. Membership is near 3000, and we have many guests...some of who are players in the field, or money men looking for an opportunity.


    Of course, it is not only up to us, as our members also play a big role in the success of the forum. I think together we have made this a pretty good place, where most everyone feels free to express their ideas, and challenge others ideas and opinions, no matter how "far out", or controversial. I have seen very little offensive behavior, and certainly Bob's did not rise to that level. Our philosophy is to be as much hands off as possible, and give out warning signals well in advance of taking action when we see the need.


    Hopefully Bob does not leave us over this. He has always expressed his opinions well, and always provides insight others miss.

  • If they cannot then the ASA will instruct them not to repeat the claims and possibly fine them if they do.

    The ASA are essentially toothless, they can’t fine anyone, only publicise their opinions.


    Jed,


    Don’t know cause I wasn’t there, BUT, could these “anomalies” have been power quality events. High/low voltage/current harmonic distortion type electrical event that triggered the product to register odd #, reset and go back to background?

    In a battery operated meter hidden in their pockets?



    But I also believe that the utility, social or personal, of a forum such as this depends on their being allowed a generally free exchange of thoughts and opinions. But if this is going to start only allowing "approved" thought, then this will turn into an echo chamber of no utility or value to anyone.


    You listening to that... Bob?

    1. JPR November 12, 2018 at 11:29 PM

      Dear Andrea Rossi,

      At what time will be broadcasted the direct streaming of the Ecat SK on January 31st? Where will it remain to be seen from those which will not attend the direct streaming?

      JPR

    2. Andrea Rossi November 13, 2018 at 7:51 AM

      JPR:

      1- the streaming will begin at 9 A.M. US Eastern Time and will last 2 hours

      2- the video will remain on youtube and a link will be maintained in our website http://www.leonardocorporation.com or http://www.ecat.com

      Warm Regards,

      A.R.

  • I expect the demo to be extremely underwhelming.


    Rossi does not care about proving his technology to the world. All that matters is obtaining the funds so he can continue pursuing his goal of commercializing the QX in a manner that allows him to both have total market share and reveal none of his IP to potential partners. To achieve this he will need a massive influx of cash to build a gigantic factory utilizing robots with the fewest humans possible. To help him acquire such funding, a top notch demonstration with no or very few loop holes would be required. The problem is that such a fantastic demonstration would inspire other companies to replicate on their own and steal his technology. So there is no good path forward. All he can do is provide sloppy demonstrations that could potentially attract a small amount of attention and provide a few customers without inspiring replication.

  • The problem is that such a fantastic demonstration would inspire other companies to replicate on their own and steal his technology.


    Rossi, as is his genius, has already solved the problem of preventing other companies from "stealing his technology".


    Cleverly, he has preempted would-be intellectual property thieves by having no actual intellectual property or technology of any kind, other than his various electric tea kettle stage props.


    This masterpiece of airtight IP protection strategy is but one example of why Il Dottore considers himself to be Nobel prize-worthy.

  • I think he has intellectual property but that it's worth to Rossi is dramatically diminished due to the malady he's suffering from: inventor's syndrome. Even if the QX is every bit as powerful as he claims and represents the pinnacle of LENR technology, if he drags out the commercialization over the next several years until he is no longer healthy enough to work or competitors emerge, it will not be worth anything to him. The rational approach would be to share all of his IP with an extremely well financed partner, allow them to replicate the technology for themselves, and allow them to build a factory to produce millions of units per year. However, since this would result in him losing total and complete control over his technology, it's not good enough for him. Like other individuals like Patterson, millions of dollars of profit, credit, fame, and recognition isn't enough for him. Unless he can literally be the Bill Gates of LENR with a near monopoly on the industry, he'd rather NO ONE ever be able to use the E-Cat technology.


    Of course, I could be wrong. I hope that he surprises us with something unique or interesting at the demonstration. But I expect the absolute worst because from his point of view providing proof of his technology being real is beneficial to his competitors.

  • Director


    Well, obviously I disagree. Given the overwhelming evidence that Rossi is a fraud and a con man, from Petroldragon, thermo-electric fraud, full expose of his shoddy stagecraft in both NC and FL, pure Ni62 "ash", fake Doral customer, fake "chief of engineering", fake performance report (Penon), non-existent "certifications" (except one meaningless one), non-existent robotic factories, undefined "5 sigma", fake engineering degree, fake "Journal" website, upon threat of inspection by FL nuclear regulators Rossi instantly pivots 180 degrees and states that there is no radiation (even though his demo stagecraft had lead shielding), numbingly ignorant understanding of basic physics and AC electricity, it's beyond me how reasonably knowledgeable and intelligent people can't see the obvious: that he is a full-blown fraudulent huckster. How much more blatant fraudulent evidence do observers need?


    It seems to me that if Rossi announced and confessed to the whole world that he is and always has been a fraudulent con man, there would be a contingent here that was sure this was all just part of Rossi's plan to hide his miraculous pink unicorn perpetual motion machine magic heatilator.

  • Rossi, as is his genius, has already solved the problem of preventing other companies from "stealing his technology".


    Cleverly, he has preempted would-be intellectual property thieves by having no actual intellectual property or technology of any kind, other than his various electric tea kettle stage props.


    This masterpiece of airtight strategy is but one example of why Il Dottore considers himself to be Nobel prize-worthy.

    Geniusness,

    Magnificence,

    Ünglaubichlich,

  • I think he has intellectual property but that it's worth to Rossi is dramatically diminished due to the malady he's suffering from: inventor's syndrome. Even if the QX is every bit as powerful as he claims and represents the pinnacle of LENR technology, if he drags out the commercialization over the next several years until he is no longer healthy enough to work or competitors emerge, it will not be worth anything to him. The rational approach would be to share all of his IP with an extremely well financed partner, allow them to replicate the technology for themselves, and allow them to build a factory to produce millions of units per year. However, since this would result in him losing total and complete control over his technology, it's not good enough for him. Like other individuals like Patterson, millions of dollars of profit, credit, fame, and recognition isn't enough for him. Unless he can literally be the Bill Gates of LENR with a near monopoly on the industry, he'd rather NO ONE ever be able to use the E-Cat technology.


    Of course, I could be wrong. I hope that he surprises us with something unique or interesting at the demonstration. But I expect the absolute worst because from his point of view providing proof of his technology being real is beneficial to his competitors.

    Director,


    Do you consider the possibility that Rossi

    Is not what you believe him to be?

  • All that matters is obtaining the funds so he can continue pursuing his goal of commercializing the QX in a manner that allows him to both have total market share and reveal none of his IP to potential partners. To achieve this he will need a massive influx of cash to build a gigantic factory utilizing robots with the fewest humans possible.

    That "goal" is absolutely impossible in the 21st century. Significant IP in a commercial cannot be hidden. Here are the main reasons:


    1. Anything of importance will be reverse engineered within weeks of the first sale. Industrial corporations will do this surreptitiously, and government agencies in every country will do it openly.


    2. You are never allowed to sell a product until you reveal practically all important details. You cannot get UL certification or regulator certification without giving them complete blueprints and the sources for all parts. I have seen the UL applications and that is what they call for.


    3. Regulatory certification for major products that can cause harm, such as automobiles and boilers, involves destructive testing and taking apart the device to look for weak parts and dangerous parts. You might be able to sell yet another 2.5 kW room heater without this, but there is no way anyone could sell what appears to be a nuclear reactor that works by unknown principles without extensive investigations. Every single component will be examined with the best instruments available, and the device will be tested over thousands of hours, in every country in which the product is to be sold.


    In short, what you describe is nonsense taken to the third power.

  • It seems to me that if Rossi announced and confessed to the whole world that he is and always has been a fraudulent con man, there would be a contingent here that was sure this was all just part of Rossi's plan to hide his miraculous pink unicorn perpetual motion machine magic heatilator.

    Or, as Mark Twain * put it, it is easier to fool people than to convince them they have been fooled.


    (* Attributed, and I believe I saw that in a contemporaneous article in the New York Times.)

  • There have been, are, and will always be people around who yearn for a Guru / leader / hero, who they can follow and admire, who they dream will change the world (and their lifes) to a better one.

    Good summation by Acland, about the upcoming Rossi event:


    https://e-catworld.com/2018/11…rcial-e-cat-presentation/


    Looking forward to seeing what Rossi has in store for us.

    42


    I have always suspected that the “Rossi-ites”

    Are slightly susceptible to manipulation by this flamboyant con man.

    hopefully, this charade ends soon and they’re smarter for it.

  • I just finished a good book about Attila the Hun. Great "summation" of his history. Saying that does not imply I agree with his ruthlessness. Same goes for Acland's good summation of what is known so far of the upcoming Rossi demo. He put it all in perspective, and that is all.


    What do I expect? As I have said many times...nothing of substance. All I am interested in, is who his partner is.

  • I brought this up on Ecat and it got shouted down by the usual suspects, mostly predicated on the genius that is Rossi.


    It appears that they can justify nearly anything, no matter how ridiculous.

  • So, supposing that Rossi has no genuine IP, what is he up to? Do you think that this will be just another turn on the merry-go-round and he will announce next year yet another advance in the technology that necessitates a delay in marketing ... or does he have some way to make money by selling heat/power at a 20% discount? Maybe he will be accessing carbon credits or some other type of subsidy?