EMDrive from perspective of dense aether model

  • Quote

    Subsequent research in Germany, 2016, produced null results when arcing was eliminated in the LN, and measurement errors accounted for due the the EMP of the discharge,, thin film phenomenon non addressed


    Thank you for info - but do you have some link for more details? Poher also did many blind experiments with non-superconductive materials (some are even shown at this video) and the impulse he observed was much higher, than any possible error of measurement. BTW Wasn't it Podkletnov's Impulse generator, what you're talking about by now?

    • Official Post

    BACK TO EM DRIVE... A critical overview of progress, methods, and the physics from 'centauri dreams' website.


    Uncertain Propulsion Breakthroughs?


    by PAUL GILSTER on DECEMBER 30, 2016


    Now that the EmDrive has made its way into the peer-reviewed literature, it falls in range of Tau Zero’s network of scientist reviewers. Marc Millis, former head of NASA’s Breakthrough Propulsion Physics project and founding architect of the Tau Zero Foundation, has spent the last two months reviewing the relevant papers. Although he is the primary author of what follows, he has enlisted the help of scientists with expertise in experimental issues, all of whom also contributed to BPP, and all of whom remain active in experimental work. The revisions and insertions of George Hathaway (Hathaway Consulting), Martin Tajmar (Dresden University), Eric Davis (EarthTech) and Jordan Maclay (Quantum Fields, LLC) have been discussed through frequent email exchanges as the final text began to emerge. Next week I’ll also be presenting a supplemental report from George Hathaway. So is EmDrive new physics or the result of experimental error? The answer turns out to be surprisingly complex.....


    http://www.centauri-dreams.org/?p=36830

  • Quote

    Now that the EmDrive has made its way into the peer-reviewed literature, it falls in range of Tau Zero’s network of scientist reviewers


    It doesn't mean very much because the LENR is way better supported with experiments (even with these peer-reviewed ones) and it still never penetrated into mainstream journals. You cannot teach old dog new tricks as Max Planck once wrote: "A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die, and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it."


    It just means, the skeptics will remain skeptical, no matter what - actually the more, the more arguments they will get (backfire effect)....

    • Official Post

    Thank you for info - but do you have some link for more details? Poher also did many blind experiments with non-superconductive materials (some are even shown at this video) and the impulse he observed was much higher, than any possible error of measurement. BTW Wasn't it Podkletnov's Impulse generator, what you're talking about by now?


    @Zephir_AWT what do you think about null result of Pdkletnov gen? Could it be due to too much shielding. What if they tried to shield equipment instead of radiator?

  • Quote

    what do you think about null result of Pdkletnov gen? Could it be due to too much shielding. What if they tried to shield equipment instead of radiator?


    Possibly, the scalar waves are shielded with ferromagnetics. Also both Podkletnov, both Poher did use carefully crafted Josephson junction as an emitter - not just flat superconductor (compare also here and here). BTW Tajmar was able to replicate the EMDrive effect neither.


    See also: 803-Page Collection of Papers on Anti-Gravity Research

  • Zephyr,
    sorry, just noticed this, holidays got in the way,,
    will get the link, but I think it would be as simple as a search for
    "null result Poher "


    part of of me wonders why the Poher boys made such an error,
    ( an arc at the connection at the superconducting pellet created a pressure wave in the LN)
    but then I have to ask why the effect was not present in the same pellet when not
    a super conductor, as I would the arc to be even worse, I probably need to retread the
    null paper

  • I am not sure if this link was recently previously posted. I came across it so it must have been posted before. Anyway some more history as a refresher.
    Relativity-revisited-aether

    Abstract


    It is argued that an unheralded moment marking the beginnings of
    relativity theory occurred in 1889, when G. F. FitzGerald, no doubt with
    the puzzling 1887 Michelson-Morley experiment fresh in mind, wrote to
    Heaviside about the possible effects of motion on inter-molecular forces
    in bodies. Emphasis is placed on the difference between FitzGerald's
    and Lorentz's independent justifications of the shape distortion effect
    involved. Finally, the importance of the their `constructive' approach
    to kinematics---stripped of any commitment to the physicality of the
    ether--- will be defended, in the spirit of Pauli, Swann and Bell.

  • The EMDrive is often objected with mainstream physicists with respect to its violation of Noether theorems. There is important to realize, that Noether theorems apply to flat space-time and smooth manifolds only. The photons spreading at proximity of metallic surfaces aren't spreading within fully flat space-time and they get coupled with it. At the proximity of metal surfaces the light is spreading superluminaly (compare the Scharnhorst effect and
    Gurther Nimtz experiments
    - PDF). When photon enters the Cassimir field at the proximity of metallic surface, it essentially behaves like the tachyon there and its forced to radiate excessive energy into outside (analogy of Cherenkov radiation). This behavior is ipso-facto a consequence of Noether theorem and momentum conservation law, just because the space-time is no flat for photons at the metal surface. This also illustrates the mechanism, in which energy of photons gets converted to energy of tachyons (analogy of sound wave generation in water surface analogy of EMDrive, which propel it forward).




    The Noether's theorems don't say, that the EMDrive cannot work. These theorems are way more trivial and they essentially say, that the fundamental laws of physics are a manifestations of space-time symmetry in the universe. So if the universe has rotational symmetry, then it must also obey the law of conservation of angular momentum, if it has a time symmetry, then energy must be conserved and so on. So that if EMDrive exhibits thrust without sending any matter into outside, then it must violate Lorentz symmetry of the space-time. Therefore the Noether's theorems are orthogonal to reality of EMDrive in fact - they just imply, that if this drive works, then the Lorentz symmetry of our local space-time must be somehow broken, for example with establishing of magnetic monopoles or with presence of extradimensions (which is the same in essence). This is the actual prediction of Noether's theorems - no less, no more.

  • I am not sure if this has been posted already, I did not see it. It is the follow-on to the Centauri Dreams paper that Alan referenced earlier. It is rather dismissive pointing out omissions or problems with the testing. I guess it should go now to the lenr-forum sister website emdrive-forum.
    Opps! never mind I see AlainCo has posted it there. My apologies. If possible we need to have logins using 3rd party like we do here. I login with google plus. It saves me a lot of time managing passwords.



    This is labelled the conclusion.



    • Official Post

    If it can be published as an answer to the paper it will be interesting to see the response...
    Wether it crash the article or just demand more precision or more experiments will be key.
    I've heard complementary informations on other tests that allows more optimism, but this is hearsay, not paper.
    I relayed the article on emdrive-forum.com

  • Alain,
    Sorry I did not look on the other forum first :) anyway I agree. But the response paper by Centauri Dreams is not very will written either. It makes a fair amount of assumptions also.


    There is an interesting thread on Reddit/emdrive where a user is offering to purchase emdrive kits if the user agrees to build a torsion table for measurement. Whether it happens or is just BS it is interesting for us watchers!



    //Separately , I hope we can get Barty to get 3rd party logins so I can post in the new forum. I would be willing to try to help if Barty needs any :?: I am not much help but I am somewhat technical.

    • Official Post

    From 'Next Big Future'


    EMDrives are claimed to be propellentless space propulsion systems. If propellentless propulsion is possible it could enable fast human travel throughout the solar system and possible interstellar missions.The scalar-tensor theory of gravitation proposed by Mbelek and Lachièze-Rey has been shown to lead to a possible explanation of the forces measured in asymmetric resonant microwave cavities. However, in the derivation of the equations from the action principle some inconsistencies were observed, like the need no to vary the electromagnetic invariant in a scalar source term. Also, the forces obtained were too high, in view of reconsideration of the experiments originally reported and of newly published results. In the present work the equations are re-derived using the full variation of the action, and also the constant of the theory re-evaluated employing the condition that no anomalous gravitational effects are produced by the earth's magnetic field. It is shown that the equations originally employed were correct, and that the newly evaluated constant gives the correct magnitude for the forces recently reported



    http://www.nextbigfuture.com/2…ry-of-gravitation-to.html



    See also:- Revaluation of Mbelek and Lachièze-Rey scalar tensor theory of gravitation to explain the measured forces in asymmetric resonant cavities. F. O. Minotti



    https://arxiv.org/abs/1701.00454

  • Quote

    should have they experienced cyclic changes in size due to gravitational waves as LIGO did?


    This last study did use a cavity resonating in single direction (three dimensional zero order of equivalence principle violation) - whereas LIGO compares the difference between pair of perpendicular resonators, i.e. the four dimensional 1st order effect (and Hogan's Holometer compares the difference between two pairs of such a resonators, i.e. it attempts for detection of five dimensional 2nd order effects). The passage of gravitational wave would dilate time for both within resonator, both for atomic clock, so no frequency drift should be actually observed. Not to say, that the last experiment wouldn't probably even notify the fast changes which occur during passage of gravitational waves (in the range of few dozens of milliseconds).


    According to dense aether model it's possible to detect the gravitational waves with single resonator, but it has to be made of superconductive material or it should be represented with charged capacitor, i.e. potential difference would apply there or it should be placed inside the anapole magnetic field gradient. After then the time runs slightly faster inside the resonator than outside it and this temporal difference would be already sensitive to passage of gravitational wave, which displaces the resonator for a moment.

  • Show sources of Your nonsense statement about this:


    According to dense aether model it's possible to detect the gravitational waves with single resonator, but it has to be made of superconductive material or it should be represented with charged capacitor, i.e. potential difference would apply there or it should be placed inside the anapole magnetic field gradient. After then the time runs slightly faster inside the resonator than outside it and this temporal difference would be already sensitive to passage of gravitational wave, which displaces the resonator for a moment.

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