Rossi vs. Darden developments [CASE CLOSED]

I thought Penon could be served by gazette notifications, newspaper announcements, etc.
A nice advert in the local newspaper of Inferno Terme for a week or two should do.

Quote from Wyttenbach

Why doesn't he feel the danger? Can any body tell us, when he personally saw/met Rossi? ..

Could it be because, as suggested in (and after) a comment on JoNP (1) appeared two months ago under the name "Mason", it's lock'd in their memory that they all are engaged in an "important work for the Great Architect"?

(1) http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=892&cpage=181#comment-1244071

** Warning : I AM NOT A LAWYER **

The recent responses are full of "demand strict proof thereof" and "the documents speak for themselves".

This Illinois blog says that those are not permitted responses, and that they may constitute an admission.

http://www.shawfishman.com/dem…f-an-unwitting-admission/

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Fed.R.Civ.P. 8(b) provides that a party must answer a complaint by admitting, denying, or stating that it lacks sufficient information to form a reasonable belief about an allegation. Improper denials are deemed admissions. Judges have grown increasingly hostile towards attorneys that disregard Rule 8. ... the chief judge for the Northern District struck a significant portion of the answer because “demands for ‘strict proof’ are improper and meaningless…” Indeed, the concept of demanding proof in a pleading “is unknown to the federal practice or to any other system of modern pleading.”

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... ‘this Court has been attempting to listen to [documents that speak for themselves] for years (in the forlorn hope that one will indeed give voice) – but until some such writing does break its silence, this Court will continue to require pleaders to employ one of the three alternatives that are permitted by Rule 8(b)…

Doc. 103, an order on discovery, now on the docket.

Quote from sigmoidal

Based on this, it again appears that Rossi's entire case for why he should be paid 89 million will hinge on his ability to convince the court (judge or jury) that a Rental Agreement is also a Guaranteed Performance Test agreement. It just seems so absurd.

Except that everyone involved acted like it was the GPT. Course of business. These matter.

Doc 103 order should lead to some interesting IH disclosures. For those here who might naturally recoil by my comment, I also look forward to the disclosures by team Rossi.

Quote

Except that everyone involved acted like it was the GPT. Course of business. These matter.

I'm curious about what behaviors on IH's part were not consistent with the rental of the E-Cat to Rossi and an effort to see if there was anything legitimate or profitable given their 11.5 million dollar investment? We have Rossi's email describing the proposed rental agreement, followed by the executed Tern Sheet. Nothing in that email or Term Sheet said anything about Guaranteed Performance. But it did explicitly state that this would provide IH the opportunity to show off the working E-Cat to potential investors and increase their confidence that the E-Cat worked, while generating income for IH.

Given the evidence I've seen so far, IH's behavior seems entirely consistent with Rossi's stated proposal. So again, I am sincerely interested in any evidence of behaviors on IH's part that are not consistent with the Rental Agreement proposal Rossi made vs. a GPT agreement. That would be very interesting and enlightening. Did you see anything in the documents, or do you have any knowledge about that?

We do know from the court documents that by Dec. 2015 IH made it clear to Rossi that they did not consider the Term Sheet to be the GPT. So the timing of any evidence you can point to where they did think it was the GPT would be especially interesting.

(Behaviors by Rossi and third party defendants don't count, in my mind, given the court evidence we now have)

In exhibit 16, Rossi's email to IH people, where he talks about the upcoming rental of the plant:

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In the incoming meeting we will have next week, please allow me to encourage you to take a

decision regarding where to put at work our 1 MW plant. I really and strongly hope you will

consider the solution I found, to rent it to JM,

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3- allow us to start in September the operation of the plant, with no further loss of time

Quote

Your proposal to put the plant in a factory owned by yourself at least until recently is dramatically

less convincing.

Rossi talks about a "decision", a "solution", "no further loss of time", IH putting the plant in their own factory. In the context of the licence and the delayed GPT, it is to me obvious that he is talking about the GPT here. Not very explicit, I know. We need to see the rest of the communications between Rossi and IH. They might have been talking about where to do the GPT for many months. This could be Rossi finding a solution at last, and he is not mentioning the words GPT of that.

I also suspect that "the results could be positive or negative" was coined by APCO. We will see.

Quote from LENR Calender

Rossi talks about a "decision", a "solution", "no further loss of time", IH putting the plant in their own factory. In the context of the licence and the delayed GPT, it is to me obvious that he is talking about the GPT here. Not very explicit, I know. We need to see the rest of the communications between Rossi and IH. They might have been talking about where to do the GPT for many months. This could be Rossi finding a solution at last, and he is not mentioning the words GPT of that.

I also suspect that "the results could be positive or negative" was coined by APCO. We will see.

Are we looking at the same document (Exhibit 16)? It is not at all obvious to me that Rossi makes any reference to a GPT.

Actually this email makes it obvious to me that he is NOT talking about the GPT. He's talking about 'renting' the plant (intro, 1, 4, 6) and 'making money' (1, 2, 3, 7).

He also is asking permission to 'operate the plant' (intro paragraph, 1, 3, conclusion), saying that 'if you let me do this [operate the plant] I will make a masterpiece'.

This, to me, is pretty convincing evidence that he is NOT talking about a GPT.

But maybe we'll just have to agree to disagree on this. From my perspective, good luck trying to use this email to convince a judge or jury that the Term Sheet Rental Agreement is a GPT agreement. Again, in my opinion, using just the evidence we have seen (posted on the Docket), that is a truly absurd position.

Of course there may be other documents we have not seen, but at this late date in discovery, it's hard to imagine why we haven't seen them. Also, if there are more documents that could be used against IH, IH would surely specify in their Request for Production that they wanted all communication by Rossi and Third Parties related to those documents, given that they could be damaging to IH's case, and they would want as much information as possible in advance so they could prepare their case. The fact that IH does not make any such requests regarding any documents other than the License Agreement and the Term Sheet is strong evidence, in my mind, that no such GPT agreement documents exist.

But again, if there is any evidence that supports the notion that IH thought this was a GPT, I'm sincerely interested in seeing it.

Exhibit 16 in full:

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Dear All:

In the incoming meeting we will have next week, please allow me to encourage you to take a decision regarding where to put at work our 1 MW plant. I really and strongly hope you will consider the solution I found, to rent it to JM, in its factory in Florida where they will use it to process their chemical products. Please think carefully before losing them. They are positive to us, but in September must start and they must know asap if they have to use our plant or provide otherwise. This solution will:

1- allow to Industrial Heat to say to the Investors that they are getting 360,000 dollars per year of rental, with a payback of a plant like this, whose construction cost is 200,000 $, in less than 6 month

2- allow to your Customer-Investors-Visitors to hear from a real Customer that he is making money with our plant

3- allow us to start in September the operation of the plant, with no further loss of time

4- allow us not to expose the know how, since the maintainance of the plant is made by us and the plant remains our property: a rental is not a sale

5- allow us to make all the Authorities make all the measurements necessary to get the

Authorizations for the next plants

6- allow you to get orders to supply for rent thousands of plants

7- allow the plant work for 24 hours per day for 360 days per year, while if used as a room heater

it could work only 4 months, not per 24 hours per day, with obvious loss of profit.

Your proposal to put the plant in a factory owned by yourself at least until recently is dramatically less convincing.

Let me do this and I will make a masterpiece ( half masterpiece has already been done finding the Customer as a Chemival Industry and getting the authorization from the Florida State Radiation Control Office).

Fulvio is completing the control system, made by 110 computers interconnected. Also that is a masterpiece.

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Quote from Shane D.

LC,

It's not obvious to me at all. The part you mention where Rossi urges IH to hurry up: "without further loss if time" refers to losing the (fake) customer, if IH does not make a decision soon. Has nothing to do with the GPT being delayed. A very typical sales gimmick...hurry up while time lasts. I fell for that once and now, 20 years later, I have a Time Share unit I never use, pay increasing maintenance on, and can not sell. Never again!

I can understand that you might not agree with me regarding seeing GPT references. However I have to disagree with the "without further loss of time" referring to losing the customer. Rossi is saying that "This solution will [...] allow us to start in September the operation of the plant, with no further loss of time".

Note the use of "further". What is the loss of time that has already occured that Rossi is referencing to? IMO the GPT delay. If he's not talking about the GPT, he's talking about loss of opportunity cost of having a plant not running anywhere.

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@sigmoidal
It's ok if we disagree. I do agree that it's not explicit/clear that he is referencing the GPT, and that it might not convince anyone. However I think it might get clearer in the context of the months of communication Rossi and IH have had before that. And in the context of the licence agreement and the de

I agree that Rossi is talking about renting the plant. I believe he is talking about doing two things at the same time (GPT+customer). Points 1+2 talk about customer. Point 3 implicitly talks about the GPT (IMO).

I'd like to see IH's proposal to run the plant in their own factory. Where they gonna run the plant there just for kicks and giggles or to do the GPT? Note that the JM option is an alternative to that.
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Edit to add: why would IH agree to do a 2 year plant rental when the licence agreement hasn't been completely fulfilled? They're already months (years?) behind on doing the GPT and should have been diligently working on trying to find a place to run the GPT. GPT would have been on everyone's mind ever since it got delayed.

Quote from Shane D.

LC,

So what do you make of this spiel of Rossi's to IH:

"I really and strongly hope you will consider the solution I found, to rent it to JM, in its factory in Florida where they will use it to process their chemical products. Please think carefully before losing them. They are positive to us, but in September must start and they must know asap if they have to use our plant or provide otherwise".

Similar to what I heard 20 years ago: "I really and strongly hope you will consider this Time Share to buy in Orlando, Florida...close to Disney World and all the attractions, to vacation at a savings, for the rest of your life. We only have a few units left, and must know ASAP if you will buy this unit". And I went and bought the damn thing!

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I agree with you, Rossi is using a marketing technique here. Did the test even start in September in the end? I think not?

In your quote, Rossi uses the word "solution". Solution to what? The previous sentence answers that: "decision regarding where to put at work our 1 MW plant". Why do they need to make a decision where to run the 1MW plant? One option is to run it in IH's factory. Rossi is offering to run it with a "customer" instead. Why would they be running it in IH's factory in the first place?

Quote from Shane D.

they will use it to process their chemical products.

And if they didn't process chemical products and Rossi knew they did not, then is sure sounds like fraud under FL laws - misrepresentation for gain.

Even if you think that the setup sounds like the GPT, he would still need something to show that it was agreed to and not just a dry run before
a possible future accepted GPT.

I am surprised that IH hasn't asked for "any and all documents" from Rossi that pertain to the GPT.

I don't think Rossi has anything other than the original agreements, but it would be nice to require him to produce what he has.

Quote from Bob

I wanted to believe him for a long time

Yes, I would love for LENR to be right but I do not believe Rossi at all. He reminds me of all the scam charity funds set up after a hurricane or earthquake - I am afraid he was just riding a wave of wishful thinking about something that holds great promise if only done right and found in IH benevolent people that wanted nothing more than to have it work.

Quote from Shane D.

LC,

First step when you have a problem is to admit you have a problem. So repeat after me: I am a Rossiaholic. Say that enough until you believe it, and you are almost there. Now that you have accepted that; the best way to overcome an addiction, is to…

Brillouin is interesting. Rossi's been letting me down for a while. I must say the only substance I've put money on is MFMP which is more of an empathogen due to the open nature of it. There's some new designer drugs that come and go like "me356" but supply's been cut short.

Some people have gone through this dealer called Woodford to get a tiny dose of Rossi, but I'm not that desperate.