Rossi vs. Darden developments [CASE CLOSED]

Quote from AlainCo

Basically what I said was not wrong when it was said, but defending plausible deniability clause for someone who later behave like said in exhibit 5 is not good for my credibility.

Don't be too hard on yourself about it. Many of us (including myself) did the same. Obviously IH thought he had something too. Maybe even AR tried to play it straight at one time and thought he had something. Kind of like Jimmy in Better Call Saul, where he tried to play it fairly straight as a lawyer, but was drawn back to the old patterns of conning after awhile. Dameron may not have done enough experiments to realize that the purported 1.3 COP is probably just an unidentified artifact. But if not, does it really matter if you can only repeat it one time out of a 100? It is almost as bad as a UA if real.

Now if BE actually has a 100% repeatable system working at a COP of 1.3, then that could really be something important. I look forward to finding out if that is real.

Alainco is referencing past performance. The pattern goes back 30+ years. Patents, books, massive amounts of money, "breakthrough technology" that doesn't work, calamity at every turn (lab fire, sabotage, fake invoices, fake customers), friends and acquaintances in prison for helping and always some form of escape. The story of the Brianza Sheikh is quite fascinating. and criminal records can be admitted into court evidence.

Quote from IH Fanboy

So, when I state that IH crafted a different narrative late in the game, that was hostile toward Rossi and Leonardo, it has backing by the public record.

Well, if this is your point, it seems like a small one. Of course IH was initially hopeful and supportive and even 'glowing' of Rossi. That they paid him 11.5 million dollars is 'suggestive' of that. You pointed to an industry trade rag article with an 'updated' date as evidence that IH was still positive until late in the game. Do you know when this interview took place? Do you know what information was 'updated'? That would be very helpful to support your assertion.

But what does it really matter? At some point, according to their filed court documents, IH came to believe that they were being conned. Are you trying to make the point that IH doesn't really believe that Rossi is a con man, or rather that they knew they were being conned earlier and lied about it?

The thing about this case is that it seems likely, given IH's counter-suit and accusations, that we'll find out if Rossi is a con man or not, because: 1) JMP is or is not a real customer needing real heat for a real chemical process, and 2) Bass is or is not Director of Engineering overseeing this real customer.

Unfortunately given the allegations and nature of the suit, if JMP is not a real chemical company, and Bass is as inauthentic as the picture on his business card, we will probably still not be able to know with certainty the heat output of the E-Cat, since Penon is AWOL and the case does not seem to hinge on those specific facts. In that case, we may just have to 'connect the dots' and come to our own conclusions regarding how likely it is that the E-Cat has any scientific or commercial value.

On the other hand, if JMP and Bass really were something more than a 'front', then Darden has indeed masterminded a dastardly and evil plan ... to shoot himself in the foot (?)

Quote from IH Fanboy

I'm not making it up. As late as September 27, 2015 (seven months into the year-long test),

I am not sure if Darden saying things were uncertain is exactly praise. However notice the view you put forth IH was still hoping that Rossi could get things working as he promised BUT that time is also consistent with them changing views about the time Rossi started to claim the Doral testing was a GPT. Around that time IH changed knowing that Rossi was trying to pull something.

Changing the narrative after finding out that Rossi was wanting to make the false GPT time is constant with the IH case.

Quote from Alan Smith

Fulvio - Pinball Wizard
With apologies to The Who

Ever since he was a young boy
He played the silver ball
From Moscow down to Doral
He must have played them all
But I ain't seen nothing like him
In any amusement hall
That Fulvio Fabiani
Sure plays a mean pin ball!

He stands like a statue,
Becomes part of the machine
Feeling all the bumpers
Always playing clean
He plays by intuition,
The digit counters fall
The fabled Fabiani
Sure plays a mean pin ball!

Display More

But don't leave out the chorus and bridge:

He's an E-Cat wizard
there has to be a trick
An E-Cat wizard's
got such a subtle schtick

How do you think he does it?
(We don't know)
Why's he in Moscow?

Working for some competitors?

Quote from zeus46

Working for some competitors?

(Just to be clear, the above is supposed to be sung to the tune of Pinball Wizard by The Who, and I took poetic license to try to rhyme 'We don' know' with "Why's he in Moscow". Not perfect, but I'm claiming my artist's license - I bought and paid for my artist's license at Walmart and can produce it if subpoenaed).

Quote from Shane D.

"lab fire, sabotage, Brianza Shiekh"...you are not going to throw that out there and not tell us the rest of the story, are you?

From here: http://news.newenergytimes.net…nmental-criminal-history/

Quote

In November 1979, journalist Luigi Bacialli wrote a book with Rossi about his life and his Petroldragon miracle, Petrolio Dai Rifiuti (Oil From Garbage).

Bacialli called Rossi the “Sheik of Brianza.” Brianza was the town [sic - Brianza is an Italian Region, which Hermes helpfully pointed out] where Rossi lived. The book is a flattering vision of Rossi and his Petroldragon.

By 1989, Italian newspapers had started reporting on Petroldragon as a scam: “A Tale of Toxic Waste, Billions [of Lira], and Mega-Scams.”

Quote from sigmoidal

Brianza was the town where Rossi lived

Try googling before making statements you are not sure of. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brianza (Sorry to be pedantic but a little accuracy is a good thing isn't it?).

Quote from Hermes

(Sorry to be pedantic but a little accuracy is a good thing isn't it?

Note that the error was made by Krivit, but yes, accuracy is a good thing, thanks for the correction. I've edited the comment to note that the the quote from Krivit should reference the region rather a town, so as not to perpetuate error.

Quote from sigmoidal

Well, if this is your point, it seems like a small one. Of course IH was initially hopeful and supportive and even 'glowing' of Rossi.

It is a small point, yes, but within a broader context. Jed had suggested I was making this smaller point up, so I needed to provide some support to show that I was not making it up.

This is the context of my broader observation, as pointed out further up in this thread:

"In a sense you are right, but only in a narrow sense. They didn't say there was nothing at the beginning. Indeed, they acted like there was, in both public and private, based on what we all know. It wasn't until late in the game (and probably some influence by some PR folks) that they crafted a narrative that was damaging to Rossi, and all NiH researchers and replicators. They took the wind out of the movement. And they likely knew that they would based on their pronouncements. While they probably weighted the risk in doing this, they did it anyway. And from the time of their filing, they have consistently given the impression that there is nothing. Go back and read their answer and counter-complaint. It is all there. And we all know it is there. No escaping words on paper filed in a court proceeding.

What is very clear to me is that people and organizations are willing to bend the truth when it comes to a world-changing technology if it serves their purposes. What is not clear to me is whether IH has revealed their highest COP based on their replications of Rossi's reactor. The under-oath statement by their "engineer" is very protective--evasive even. I'm relatively certain that we have a smidgen of the facts at this point."

Quote

Try googling...

Google Streetview (45°44'54.23"N, 9°25'59.98"E) or this foto documentary
http://www.lucianoravasio.eu/p…oldragon-airuno/#lightbox[group]/21/
may give an impression about what the "Sheik of Brianza" left behind and is still visible after 30 years.

Quote from Forty-Two

may give an impression about what the "Sheik of Brianza" left behind and is still visible after 30 years.

sad. It sure looks like Rossi only cares about getting money for himself and is not really the benevolent one.

Quote from IHFB

What is very clear to me is that people and organizations are willing to bend the truth when it comes to a world-changing technology if it serves their purposes.

Which is a non sequitur here, since there is no evidence Rossi has world-changing technology and much (of omission) that he does not.

Quote from Forty-Two

Google Streetview (45°44'54.23"N, 9°25'59.98"E) or this foto documentary
http://www.lucianoravasio.eu/p…oldragon-airuno/#lightbox[group]/21/
may give an impression about what the "Sheik of Brianza" left behind and is still visible after 30 years.

It must be noted that the link too says that in the end Rossi had been fully acquitted in 3 different trials from all the environmental crime charges. So it's hard to tell what actually happened until someone digs into the official records (unlike relying on the news headlines at the time of his arrest)

Quote from Renzo Barbieri

in the end Rossi had been fully acquitted in 3 different trials

Yes he was acquitted from criminal charges. However, it still remains that he claimed to have a great system that would produce oil from waste but he did not deliver on the promise. There does not seem to be any proof that he made a single drop of oil. He took the money but the factory is left rotting. If he had what he claimed why not make it work?

Then there are his claims of the super efficient thermoelectric device. He claimed them 20% efficient but when tested by third parties 19 gave no electrical signal at all and the other 8 only produced around 1 W of the claimed 800-1000W.

Not exactly a good track record of converting great claims in to reality and commercialization.

I don't want to defend him at all costs but you're making assumptions. I'd like as anyone else to read a serious book about the Petroldragon story, I mean something based on documents&facts and not headlines&suppositions.

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However, it still remains that he claimed to have a great system that would produce oil from waste but he did not deliver on the promise

How do you know? I don't have facts-based info regarding this.

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There does not seem to be any proof that he made a single drop of oil

.
Again, did you read the trial files? I didn't and I don't know.

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He took the money but the factory is left rotting. If he had what he claimed why not make it work?

It seems he lost everything with the trials and bankruptcy, he left Italy broke and with no one daring to touch him with a 10 meter pole.

Quote

Then there are his claims of the super efficient thermoelectric device. He claimed them 20% efficient but when tested by third parties 19 gave no electrical signal at all and the other 8 only produced around 1 W of the claimed 800-1000W

If I remember correctly the claim was that single manually crafted device worked but that it wasn't possible to scale production, making them too expensive. Also I note that they continued to work with him, and the Ampenergo guy have continued praising him.

I'm not trying to defend Rossi, I'm extremely tired of the always evading conclusion but I want facts while I see only a fragmented puzzle with a lot of missing pieces.