Rossi vs. Darden developments [CASE CLOSED]

  • Peter - you seem to be back in your disturbed place which may just be a result of your haste / emotion. There are plenty of answers to your questions

    in the docket right now and I can never seem to be able to satisfy your curiosity without setting you off so lets just leave it at that.

    Careful Monty - you're leaving droppings again and I'd like to point out that there is a full-fledged troll culling underway.

  • I see the Rossi SP / Planet Rossi storm from overnight drew some just invective and, sadly, also lured Sifferkoll out of hibernation (high possibility they are directly related). I'd love to have a look at some server logs and IP addresses. Its not a total loss - I don't need any more ammo on that front but this will surely be helpful if he wants to revert to his last known state of mind.

    I've been very curious as to why more of Planet Rossi is not proclaiming Penon's "ERV" report? Rossi teased and led his followers on for almost a year around the importance of this document only to pull the rug out from under them with his long planned litigation and the intentional withholding of his all important report. He then tried to spin this and blame IH for his inability to publish the planet saving, so to speak, "ERV". The document is so fatally flawed that it could not be useful to collect even .89 quid. There is no measuring equipment description, no data measurement or collection methodology, no calibration or certification. No attempt to establish any credibility or competence as a measurement standard. Rossi, Penon and Fabiani all got their stories crossed up on how the information was even gathered / delivered and then to top it all off - they destroyed the emails and the data. What is left for any Rossi remnant to believe in?

    Thinking about it, this really pisses me off Dewey. Especially since you long time ago stated that you have no clue about how the Internet works () ... I give some examples of your previous endeavors, which I almost forgot about...…ver-goes-ballistic-after/…ver-goes-ballistic-after/…cryptodenialism-to-study/

    To be honest, reading through all my posts today feels kind of weird. Everything is almost too close to close to spot on ... ... ...

  • Dewey,

    if there has be destruction of emails, removal of pipes, (I am assuming even the pressure sensor outside the container, etc.) , doesn't that mean that according to the legal concept of 'adverse interpretation' Rossi will not be able to use any of the claimed ERV report regardless of its technical competence (or lack thereof).

  • Ah Siffer - I've researched what it all means in your home country. You're welcome to keep adding to the mess you've made.

    THH - I agree - the Spoliation motion could end it all and was surprised / disappointed at the Judge's treatment of the filing.

    You'll see it again soon enough.

  • In a society where everything was free, I know I would not work. I would go fishing, golfing, mow my yard, paint my house. But then I do not know who would

    mow the golf course, make the fishing line and poles, build the golf clubs, cast the aluminum block on my lawn mower, distill the gas for it nor make the paint for my house. I would truly appreciate all those who did that work for free, just for my benefit! :):!:

    Ok. That is fine. I understand But as I stated I do not think human work (unless it can be rotbotized - your lawn will survive, etc. .... ) will be free.

  • NOTE: per a previous post I made regarding the utility of classifying posts as to LEGAL, ROSSI EFFECT and PSYCHOSOCIAL, the following information is about the LEGAL aspect of Rossi vs. Darden, and has no bearing on the ROSSI EFFECT or NiH LENR. This post has some implications regarding the PSYCHOSOCIAL aspects regarding Rossi's team, as noted at the conclusion of the post.

    226 - Supplement to Plaintiff's Appeal (by Rossi)

    226-01 Attachment 1 - This is a copy of the previous posted email from Darden To Uzi Sha providing the contact information for Rossi, Fabiani and Penon

    226-02 Attachment 2 - This is a copy of the previous posted Motion for Sanctions, denied by Judge Altonaga on procedural basis

    226-03 Attachment 3 - This is an excerpt of the transcript of the video deposition of Darden at 9am on 2017-02-16

    226-04 Attachment 4 - This is the transcript of the discovery hearing held 2017-02-23 before Magistrate O'Sullivan

    226-05 Attachment 5 - This is the transcript of the discovery hearing held 2017-03-09 before Magistrate O'Sullivan

    Analysis: First off, it is important to note that this is supplemental information. There is no new Motion here by Rossi. This information is presumably being filed by Rossi to help support an earlier appeal to the Magistrate regarding two issues:

    1) Their previous request to deny attorney-client privilege for one email from Darden to Zalli Jaffe and Uzi Sha from May 2016 (which was denied, so that this email currently remains privileged)

    2) Rossi's Motion for Sanctions based on alleged 'witness tampering' which was also denied by the Magistrate.

    There is no new information in 226, 226-01 or 226-02.

    [Edit:] I'm not sure if there is any There is new information in this transcript excerpt of Darden (226-03), which contains different pages than the excerpt posted in 207-09. So this excerpt is new. Some of this was definitely excerpted previously, but this looks like the whole thing, so there might be some new information. I'll look at this when I have more time.

    There is new information in 226-04 and 05, however. Here we get the transcripts of two discovery hearings. Here are some 'highlights' from the hearings:

    From the 2017-02-23 hearing:

    It starts off with the Magistrate saying: "I'm seeing way too much of you guys. You know what that indicates to me? That indicates that you lawyers either don't know what you're doing, or you're being completely uncooperative with each other because most of these discovery disputes should be resolved amongst the parties, not with getting the court involved."

    After some argument about whether an email to Zalli Jaffe is privileged, and it is clear that the Magistrate felt that it was, he rules that it is, in fact privileged.

    Then the other email (226-01), the Magistrate finds no basis for privilege and says: "I just don't even know why we're talking about this document because unless this is some kind of secret or something, everybody in the place probably knows what his phone numbers are."

    From the 2017-03-09 hearing:

    Again, Rossi's lawyers are trying to convince the Judge that the Zalli Jaffe email should not be privileged because Levi testified that he felt "harrased, threatened and coerced" by Uzi Sha. The Judge responds:

    page 7, 1-4: Magistrate: "You [got]somebody [Giuseppie Levi] in Italy who swears on an affidavit that 'I felt that somebody was trying to bribe me', who is not even a person in this case. Rather, it is a person two or three times removed from the Defendant in the case."

    After some more discussion where Rossi's lawyers keep making the same point about attorney-client privilege with Zalli, the Magistrate says to Rossi's lawyer (page 12):

    "Well, now you are re-arguing what I already ruled. You are re-arguing the argument that you lost last week and I am not inclined to hear re-argument on that. I understand you are bringing new facts to me now and saying it could relate to the bribery so the protection should not apply, but you haven't provided -- there is nothing new other than that that came to my attention. So if you are just arguing that I was wrong before, you know, I am denying that request because I examined that document carefully before making my ruling."

    Rossi's lawyers persist in trying to make a case. The Judge finally concludes with his ruling, which actually goes beyond whether Zalli's email was privileged and gets to the specifics of 'witness tampering':

    The Magistrate: "Okay. All right. The motion for reconsideration is denied. I find that although counsel has provided an unsworn declaration of Mr. Levi, who is located in Italy, where he indicates that at certain points he feels as if he has been harassed, threatened, or coerced based on contacts from people who have a connection to the Defendants that that's not sufficient evidence of crime or fraud to override the attorney/client privilege, which I've previously found applies to the document at hand which I believe is a November 4th e-mail from Mr. Darden to Mr. Zalli. So the request for reconsideration is denied. I also note that discovery is completed in this case. There is no more discovery time left. You know, you would need to convince Judge Altonaga if you wanted more discovery time. I'm not permitted to allow that in any case. So the motion for reconsideration is denied.

    What is the next issue?"

    The next issue has to do with Rossi's lawyers allegedly not producing bank statement per a previous agreement. Rossi's lawyer keeps trying to argue why they don't have to show all Leonardo's bank documents, and IH's lawyers keep saying that the agreement was to show all the bank documents. The Magistrate is obviously getting pretty impatient with Rossi's lawyers. Here's what he says to Rossi's lawyer:

    THE COURT: Just show him [IH's lawyer] every bank document [from Leonardo] that you have in this regard and give him copies of the ones that you feel okay with. If you don't, then, you can come back to me.

    MR. ANNESSER: Your Honor, for clarification --

    The Magistrate responds [Note, the Judge has a hypothetical conversation in this quote. It's all his words, but he's speaking about some hypothetical conversation that he does not want to have]:

    THE COURT: And please, don't come back to me unless it is really important. Because I am not here to say 'I don't want to show him that check'.

    [Hypothetically speaking Magistrate:] 'Well, is there some reason? '

    [Magistrate hypothetically speaking as Rossi's Lawyer] 'No, I just don't want to show them that check because I don't want them to go any further with it.'

    [Magistrate to Rossi's Lawyer:]Well, attorney's eyes only. Unless you [Rossi's Lawyer] are going to show me that these guys have been disclosing stuff and they are on the Internet disclosing stuff that is attorney's eyes only. That's what you do. You know, you put your big boy pants on and you play the game. You know, we went through this last time. This case is getting a little aggravating to me because this should not be all of this disruption over this simple stuff. My ruling is to show them every document that you have relating to -- every bank document that you received pursuant to the subpoena regarding the Leonardo Corporation bank records and for attorney's eyes only. If you have any other issues come back. [emphasis sigmoidal's]

    All right. Any other issues?

    Analysis: The Magistrate is getting pretty fed-up with Rossi's Lawyer's complaints. I don't think this supplemental information does anything to help Rossi's case, and I don't understand why they thought it was a good idea to add this supplemental information, which was already available to the Court. The Magistrate has decided that the email from Zalli Jaffe is privileged and that there is not sufficient evidence of witness tampering regarding Levi, in part because he is too far removed from this case. The Magistrate says that Rossi's only option is to try to appeal this to Judge Altonaga, apparently without the Magistrate's support. Given that she has already denied this motion procedurally, it seems unlikely that she will change her mind and remand the Magistrate's decision. But I guess Rossi's lawyer's job is to serve their client and explore all options. We'll see if they have any success with these two issues (Zalli email and witness tampering).

    From a PSYCHOSOCIAL standpoint, on this issue of witness tampering, at least, based on the Court transcript, Rossi's team seems to be 'grasping at straws' trying to find something against IH.

    Edited 16 times, last by sigmoidal: clarification and added references to docket, determined that new pages exist in this excerpt of Darden's deposition ().

  • [IH did not want the test in the first place. . . .]

    Back in 1990, after the F and P announcement, it seemed clear to me that a lot of the criticism they received came from other scientist that were envious of their discovery. Could some of this be going on here, Jed?

    I do not think any mainstream scientists in 1990 were jealous of F&P. They did not believe the claims.

    I.H. is not jealous of Rossi. They are investors, not scientists. They have nothing to be jealous of.

    The cold fusion researchers I have spoken with in the last several years are not jealous of Rossi. They think he is a fraud.

  • Dewey,

    I guess Alan does not like the Planet Rossi appellation. How about: people who for reasons that I can't understand and think borderline irrational still reckon Rossi has a leg to stand on. You could cut and paste it each time and it would not get green inked. That would be friendly for the many readers here who hate seeing Planet Rossi printed in flourescent green.


  • 4. Have Rossi's devices ever shown (some) Ni-H LENR effect

    3. Have Rossi's devices ever shown claimed commercial levels of LENR effect . . .

    Jed would I guess on this scale be at least a level 3 skeptic, possibly 4 or 5.

    That is a good set of skeptical gradations.

    I guess I am mid-level 4. I cannot be sure that all of Rossi's tests failed. As I have often said, the first set of tests with Levi seemed pretty good. The second set of tests at Lugano were bad. Usually, when researchers repeat a test they do a better job the second time. For example, they had a thermocouple on the cell surface in the first tests, which confirmed the IR camera. Why didn't they have one at Lugano? I just don't know what to make of this. I lost confidence in Levi.

    Here is what I think: Rossi has nothing at present, his 1-year test results are fraudulent, and I.H. did not see any significant heat from any of his devices. I cannot be sure about previous tests.