Rossi vs. Darden developments [CASE CLOSED]

    Quote from BBCK777

    There is no such thing, critics will always find faults in "test".


    I am not a critic in the sense you have in mind. I would be satisfied with a properly done test. So would the people at I.H. They would have paid Rossi $89 million for a properly done test. He knew what they demanded. If his device worked, he would have done a proper test, and he would now have the money. It would have taken a few hours, not a year.


    For the record, properly done tests are defined by the ASME and written into the Florida regulations for boilers. There is no question about what these tests consist of. Hundreds of thousands of HVAC engineers are trained to perform these tests. If the claims were true, any one of these people could produce irrefutable proof the machine works as claimed. This proof would be so rock solid you could bet your life on it. You do bet your life on it, every time you go into a building with a boiler. Before the ASME was founded in 1880, people were killed every day by exploding boilers in buildings, factories, ships and elsewhere.


    Quote from BBCK777

    The only "test" is a customer making money using LENR.


    Nonsense.

    The testing of the technology to see if LENR is "real" is not what is really at question within the legal suit. The question is did the test fulfill the legal requirements of the contract. That was it the GPT, was it agree to, did they follow the protocol, will there be some sort of verification that the ERV signed off on it or gives witness to the report, where the taxes paid, and so on. Remember that Rossi brought the case against IH and they should be considered innocent until the preponderance of evidence brought by Rossi shows they were at fault. So far, I see little evidence of that so that IH should be considered innocent until proven guilty.


    What evidence has Rossi published in the exhibits? Was there any report by the ERV? and so on.

    Quote from oldguy

    The testing of the technology to see if LENR is "real" is not what is really at question within the legal suit. The question is did the test fulfill the legal requirements of the contract.


    That is a narrow way to look at it. If a properly done test had been performed, it would have taken a few hours. I.H. would have gladly paid the $89 million. They told me that, and I am sure they mean it. As I said, a properly done test is easily defined, and has been since 1880s.


    Rossi insisted on a 1-year test of a huge device. I.H. wanted a short test of a single heater.


    The problems with this test were described in Exhibit 5. Not only did this test fail as an "ERV," it failed by every sane standard of science and engineering. The data was nonsensical, impossible, and in places, obviously fake. To believe it, you would have to think the test was performed in a vacuum with equipment that magically produced the same numbers day after day. You would have to be crazy to accept such outrageous nonsense. This is about as far from an actual test as anything could be.

    Quote from IH Fanboy

    The agreement dictated a one year test. That is probably why Rossi insisted on one year.


    I have heard that Rossi insisted on that part of the agreement. It was his idea to make it a 1-year test. From a scientific or engineering point of view, there is no reason to make it 1-year. A few hours or a week would be better by far. The machine was not a practical commercial prototype, so there is no point to seeing whether it stands up to practical applications. Even if it actually worked it would still be about a billion dollars away from being a practical machine.

    yes, there is no reason for a 1 MW trial either. In fact, a 1 or 2 kW would likely be a better test since it would be easier to run concurrent controls and have controlled operating and heat dump conditions.


    Also, there is no need for steam generation. Good flowing water or other working liquid working fluids are much more reliable for heat measurements compared to phase changes.

    • Official Post

    Just so no one reading gets confused, the original agreement called for Rossi to start the GPT (1 year test) with the 1MW (the plant) "immediately" after it arrived at IH's facilities in NC. As we all know, that did not happen, with Rossi blaming IH, and IH blaming Rossi. 2 years later, Doral was described as a 2 year lease of the plant (1MW) to JMP. From the Term Sheet:


    "IH will provide all maintenance on the 1 MW Plant during the 2 year rental period"



    shane
    yes, my understanding is that IH owns the device in FL and was to conduct maintenance on it. Yet Rossi prevented IH's representative access.


    It now sits padlocked to both IH and Rossi. But I would worry that some may have gotten un-authorized entry into it after it was sealed and locked. I would think that pics and videos of the device would become evidence.


    Unverified rumors are that Rossi has used some of IH's properties from that original device in "developing" his new systems. That may greatly complicate things for him.

    Quote from Shane D.

    IHFB,


    That would be Rossi's friend Fabiani. IH hired him in 2013 I believe. Paid him a little over $10,000/month.



    not sure I would call Fabiani IH's "representative". If you were Rossi's friend you were allowed in. However when IH sent someone to check on things (Joe Murray) he would bar their entry. It was IH's machine and work space but Rossi did not allow IH access. IH was to be allow maintenance of the device but Rossi did not allow them to work on it.

    • Official Post

    OG,


    This is a comment by Mats Lewan shortly after Rossi filed suit:


    The two IH representatives present at the test were Barry West and Fulvio Fabiani (who worked for Rossi from January 2012 until August 2013, when the MW plant was delivered to IH in North Carolina, after which he was paid by IH as an expert who would make the technology transition from Rossi to IH easier). West and Fabiani reported to JT Vaughn every day on the phone.


    Quote from JedRothwell


    I have heard that Rossi insisted on that part of the agreement. It was his idea to make it a 1-year test. From a scientific or engineering point of view, there is no reason to make it 1-year. A few hours or a week would be better by far. The machine was not a practical commercial prototype, so there is no point to seeing whether it stands up to practical applications. Even if it actually worked it would still be about a billion dollars away from being a practical machine.


    That may be the core of the issue. IH wanted anything but a mature, commercially viable technology - rather something that indeed is "a billion dollars away from being a practical machine". Because this distance means control. Control by those who can invest such sums.

    IHFB is right, Barry West was an IH guy and he stayed in the Plant every day with Fabiani.
    They both was paid by IH. Even if some of you think that Fabiani was a Rossi's friend, I don't think that West was there just to keep company with Fabiani....
    So the only person who wasn't allowed to enter the Plant was Murray, a newly hired , a stranger.
    The chief engineer in IH was Thomas Baker Dameron, Murray was employed after the beginning of the test, and I still don't know why they sent him to Doral, instead of a person known by Rossi.I also disagree with Jed when he says "From a scientific or engineering point of view, there is no reason to make it 1-year. A few hours or a week would be better by far."
    Rossi was testing a new technology, for which there is not even a theoretical explanation. How can you ask someone 89M dollars for a thing that you don't even know if it lasts for two weeks? If you want to sell an item that could become a revolutionary source of energy, you must first of all know its limits and its life.

    • Official Post

    OG,


    Fabiani and West *were* IH's representatives for the Doral (Florida) test. As a side note, and FWIW; West was not listed as one of the 3rd Party Defendants (Johnson/Penon/Fabiani/Bass) IH is counter-suing. In other words, there is no legal action pending against him.


    SSC,

    This is why IH hired Murray:

    In mid-2015, Industrial Heat hired Joseph Murray (“Murray”) to serve as Vice President of Engineering, and empowered him to assemble a team of engineers and scientists to elevate the level of Industrial Heat’s testing and evaluation of LENR technology. Among other things, one of the projects undertaken by that team was rigorous testing of the E-Cat IP. That testing demonstrated quite clearly that the results previously claimed by Leonardo, Rossi, and Penon simply could not be replicated using the E-Cat IP that Leonardo and Rossi had provided to Counter-Plaintiffs.
    Notwithstanding that Leonardo and Rossi allowed visitors to the facility in Doral where the Plant was located on a fairly regular basis, in July 2015, Rossi denied Murray access to the Plant without any reasonable justification


    So it sounds like IH may have wondered if the problem with replicating the Ecat in NC was due Dameron, so hired Murray to "elevate the level of IH's testing and evaluation". As it turned out though, Murray was no more successful than Dameron.

    This is what Rossi said about Murray:


    "About the meeting of Tuesday, you obviously can come when you want, while Joe Murray cannot enter in the factory of JM because, as I have explained to Tom during the visit with Brian Mc Laughlin, I do not allow anybody, except for the personnel already reciprocally authorized, to approach the plant before the tests on course will have been completed."


    I can sort of understand Rossi's position. An apparent APCO guy (Brian McLaughlin) had already visited Doral with Darden, and I think the spidey-sense in Rossi was probably elevated--that a sabotage was possibly underway.

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