Rossi vs. Darden developments [CASE CLOSED]

    • Official Post
    Quote from ele

    Mr. Alain you are supposed to be a moderator and not to be biased. If you want to find some information about all this past stories have a look e.g. to http://ingandrearossi.net/ .

    I don't act as moderator (did I moderate you?) about that, and I exploited as much as possible this source, as i exploited news from La Stampa about the enthusiasming Il mago Del Petrolio, and then Il Coriere Dela Serra about the monstruous polluter... I was Rossi's attorney on the Web until recently, like I was for the Greek plumbers.


    As I say, there is no definitive evidence on those affairs, except that Rossi is not a perfect angel about taxes and permits, and is loose about engineering and industrialization. This was compatible with e-cat reality, and the best evidence was Darden partnership.


    We can discuss years long about the evidences published recently. People can be convinced, or can still keep doubt that it may work.


    If you consider possible that JMP is a real company independent from Rossi, you are coherent. If you accept that we all have been fooled about that shell company, and still trust Rossi, you are surprising.


    I am not even sure E-cat have not some partial reality, after reading stories about JMP circus.


    Anyway the jury will have the evidences and it will be explained by competent people, attorneys of both sides, there is more interesting to do than speculate.

    Quote from IHFB

    I think a few of us here have documented pretty well the inconsistencies with statements from IH's surrogates, IH's behavior, and their attempts to lead the community and public to think one thing while hiding the true meaning in creative PR-type language.



    Listen, I understand that companies must keep some information secret, and are generally out to make money. There is nothing wrong with that, and it what makes the world go 'round. I think, however, that when it comes to commercially viable LENR, the public has a legitimate interest in knowing certain things. The potential for abuse is otherwise too great. If IH wants to be the company that brings LENR+ to the world, they are going to need to think beyond traditional PR tactics, and really open up to the wider community , rather than hushing it up with NDAs and token research dollars.


    I've not noticed that. You have documented facts that when combined with your unrealistic speculation lead to contradiction. You don't see that IH's view of Rossi's stuff can be both highly skeptical, with no proof, and open to the possibility that he might have real LENR. As time went on with new lies from Rossi and no in-house replication (as well as Lugano being discredited) their position would naturally move.


    As for IH, they are pushing large amounts of money into "best guess might work" LENR research. You sound unhappy about that.

    Quote from Alan Smith

    At the moment the IH PR story is so focused on throwing shit (deserved or not) in the general direction of Ni/H and Rossi in particular that they are beginning to look like 'the nasty party', all negativity. Not a graceful image.

    I don't see that at all Alan. They are vigorously defending themselves against a scammer who took a lot of money from them and delivered nothing. One mistake they made was pulling their punches too much early on. Besides, they are not distributing PR that I can tell. Where do you get that from?

    Quote

    They are vigorously defending themselves against a scammer who took a lot of money from them and delivered nothing.


    This is the same story again and again: they're defending themselves AGAINST the lost of licence on technology, which they don't want to pay, because they allegedly don't believe in it.
    That means, they refused to pay A. Rossi for ECat licence, but they still want to keep it. WTF - why, if it doesn't work? For what?! Who is the fraudster here?

    If the IH doesn't want to pay for "nothing" - what prohibits them to simply give up the ECat licence? Well, absolutely no one.


    Regarding the money already paid, the IH did pay for independent test of ECat technology and they got it in timely fashion.

    This test didn't warrant, that this technology will work (and I believe, it still did). If it could warrant it, then no test would be actually necessary.

    Quote from Zephir_AWT

    This is the same story again and again: they're defending themselves AGAINST the lost of licence on technology, which they don't want to pay, because they allegedly don't believe in it.
    That means, they refused to pay A. Rossi for ECat licence, but they still want to keep it. WTF - why? For what?! Who is the fraudster here?

    If the IH doesn't want to pay for "nothing" - what prohibits them to simply give up the ECat licence? Well, absolutely no one.

    Where in any documents do you see that they are trying to keep the license on the technology? They paid for the transfer of the IP. Guess what: it doesn't work. You don't need to trust IH on this one. Trust the (now probably hundreds) of failed replication attempts based on the formula from the patents. There has been no repeatable, reliable, or clearly valid replication of the effect.

    Quote from Zephir_AWT

    Regarding the money already paid, the IH did pay for independent test of ECat technology and they got it in timely fashion.


    This test didn't warrant, that this technology will work (and I believe, it still did). If it could warrant it, then no test would be actually necessary.

    They paid for an independent test, and got a sham as far as I can tell. I don't really comprehend what you are trying to say here.

    Quote

    Where in any documents do you see that they are trying to keep the license on the technology? They paid for the transfer of the IP

    You cannot have ECat licence without transfer of the IP. They (IH) refused to pay, the will not get the IP. Everything is clear and simple.

    • Official Post
    Quote from Zephir_AWT

    You cannot have ECat licence without transfer of the IP. They (IH) refused to pay, the will not get the IP. Everything is clear and simple.

    In fact they already paid 10.5Mn$ for the IP transfer, and they say it does not work (only question is Dameron saying it may be COP 1.3, probably their error margin).


    Why they don't dump their right from license is simply logical.

    Either the technology is real, and they ask for IP transfer as they paid, and good evidences (not a fake setup). Easy if E-cat is real, even a bit oversold by Rossi.

    Or the technology is non-existent and I suspect they will try to make Rossi admit it publicly, or at least make that fact public, so next plumber of that kind avoids USA.

    I've calculated that if Rossi sold three 1MW plants (worth $1 million each) to his secret customer JMP, he will have to ask Colette to invoice him for 11,428,571.4 grams of Nickel powder purity 99.6%


    That's 11.4 metric Tonnes of high purity Nickel. Might have to be imported from the UK unincorporated entity.


    Either that ,or Johnson will receive yet another $35 overdrawn fee from Bank of America.


    Sounds like a lot of space to store all that Nickel , but if I got this right we are only talking about 1.3 cubic meters.


    For now!


    Eventually, Rossi will have to team up with Elon Musk to build the largest robotic megawarehouse to store all that Nickel. I can see a lot of synergy between those two innovators.


    A masterpiece!

    Dewey, I think you might misunderstand our intentions. Requiring that all of Rossi's aliases be produced is fine, at least with me. The intentions here are clear: we want to know what happened, and what is happening, plain and simple. You ought not to be so defensive, and lash out at some imaginary "Planet Rossi." I suggest that IH stop being the PR spinsters that they have so far shown themselves to be. You seem to be very confident that IH has never at any time reproduced a COP greater than one, whether directly using Rossi's disclosed information, or using a reactor improved upon by IH.


    If that is your position (and it seems to be based on your past pronouncements), then fine, we'll all get to see, some day, whether you were telling the truth. And if you were, and the proof comes out supporting your position of COP = 1 at all times, then IH will have once and for all driven NiH into the ground. And we can all happily move forward with non-commercially viable electrolysis-based LENR protected by the old-guard. And if that happens, then I guess you win. But the world loses.

    IHFB - I do not represent IH. I do not speak for IH. The attempts of Planet Rossi to discern the Ni purchase as valid / real in light of the revelation that JMP is a complete scam is laughable (and PR spin). I am hopeful that something useful remains possible with NiH reactions. Fortunately, that will not go down with Rossi's ship. The world will benefit when the sector can get this blood sucker and his distractors in the rear view mirror.

    Are you simply hopeful? Or has IH actually seen NiH results that show promise? It just feels like IH is withholding information and spinning the COP = 1 at all times story with the community because it suits their current narrative. It is a risky play, I think, for IH. Because the truth is always and eventually set free.

    Quote from Zephir_AWT

    This is the same story again and again: they're defending themselves AGAINST the lost of licence on technology, which they don't want to pay, because they allegedly don't believe in it.
    That means, they refused to pay A. Rossi for ECat licence, but they still want to keep it. WTF - why, if it doesn't work?

    If it starts to work, I have no doubt whatever they will then pay for it. I know that because they told me, and because any sane businessman would do that. If it starts to work they will make billions of dollars, and Rossi would have solid grounds to sue them, so of course they would pay.


    When I say "starts to work" I mean, for example, if they find out their replication was somehow flawed and that with some adjustments they can get excess heat. There is no chance the 1-year test device actually produced excess heat. That is ruled out. There is a slight chance that some other device did work, or will work at some point. They want to keep ownership just in case that happens.


    This is not complicated, and I do not understand why you ask "WTF - why, if it doesn't work?" The answer is obvious: there is a very slight chance it can be made to work, and it might be worth something. Since they paid for it, there is no reason for them to give up ownership.

    • Official Post
    Alan Smith wrote: At the moment the IH PR story is so focused on throwing shit (deserved or not) in the general direction of Ni/H and Rossi in particular that they are beginning to look like 'the nasty party', all negativity. Not a graceful image.

    Jack Cole wrote:I don't see that at all Alan. They are vigorously defending themselves against a scammer who took a lot of money from them and delivered nothing. One mistake they made was pulling their punches too much early on. Besides, they are not distributing PR that I can tell. Where do you get that from?


    Dewey, mostly.

    IHFB- It just feels like IH is withholding information


    Why do you think a business has any obligation to freely give information about their on going research and development activities? You are not being realistic. Apple, Ford, GE,.... never reveal all their research and projects to the public. We just have to wait for the latest models to come out. Why can't you just wait? Notice that IH is just giving things via the court system they think they must due to Rossi's attack. They are under no obligation to tell you things just to satisfy your curiosity.

    Quote from Dewey Weaver

    IHFB - I do not represent IH. I do not speak for IH. The attempts of Planet Rossi to discern the Ni purchase as valid / real in light of the revelation that JMP is a complete scam is laughable (and PR spin). I am hopeful that something useful remains possible with NiH reactions. Fortunately, that will not go down with Rossi's ship. The world will benefit when the sector can get this blood sucker and his distractors in the rear view mirror.



    Dewey - Are you referencing my previous couple posts when talking about "The attempts of Planet Rossi to discern the Ni purchase as valid / real "?


    If not, ignore this.


    If yes, you will benefit from realizing that not everything in this world is black or white. This is not a superhero movie, planet IH vs planet Rossi. Individuals are more complex than that.


    I am actually outraged by the fake invoice Rossi requested from Colette. Now you can reread my previous couple posts, have a bit of fun, and shatter that planet Rossi concept of yours.

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