Rossi vs. Darden developments [CASE CLOSED]

    One possibility is that Penon is hiding and that he too was sold a bill of goods by Rossi. That he only thought it was a long time test. That he did not take the data himself but only recorded what Rossi gave him. That he later recognized that the equipment he used was not up to the task that Rossi morphed the FL test into. That he was not even told that FL was to be the official GPT test only a trial run. That the protocol he wrote was not with the GPT in mind. That he never reported back from the manufacturer's check of the equipment. That he might even been told by them that the equipment was faulty or not designed for the levels and temperatures he used them. That he never signed off on the FL test as the GPT, and so on.


    We have not heard from Penon so we just do not know.


    But if Penon signed off and verified that he made the measurements as the ERV for a GPT test, then where is that Exhibit? Why hasn't Rossi submitted that proof to the court? My guess is that it doesn't exist. No formal acceptance.

    Quote from Alan Fletcher

    The green line (FPL) dips below the red line (Penon) between the interval marked "Nov 2015" and "Dec 2015" ... so I guess I should have said "second half of Nov 2105". Penon's power for that period varies between 266 and 274, where FLP drops to 200.

    But going back to July 2015, even if I set the input power to 400 kWh .. above FPL's maximum daily for the month, I still get a COP of over 50.

    Sorry Alan, just seen the chart you are talking about... Yep that discrepancy is fairly damning.

    Andrea Rossi could be hypothetically convicted of fraud and locked away for the rest of his life, but that would not represent an ending. The E-Cat technology -- regardless of whatever happened at Doral -- works. Basically, if you properly prepare and hydrogenate nickel you'll create reaction sites that are filled with exotic hydrogen species that can undergo nuclear reactions. IH's own technology -- which they bought from George Miley -- also explains this process. Although in the future Ni-H technology will probably be far more sophisticated than Andrea Rossi's (George Miley explains how reaction sites can be created via a number of methods to control their number and geometry) less sophisticated methods are still perfectly capable of producing ultra high outputs. IH has the money and connections to have a multi-billion dollar research center building devices based on Miley's patents (now their own technology) right now. For the replication community, once the proper fuel prep and hydrogenation techniques are mastered, they'll be able to produce systems that will stun everyone. Their work will probably be superseded at some point by a company who is willing to join up with a lithography company to print out LENR reaction sites onto metal samples to produce ideal fuel.

    Quote from DNI

    This is an intresting question. What happens if Rossi violated the terms of the agreement before the alleged GPT started? What happens then with IHs license? I have no idea :)

    Yes, that is the reason that the tax evasion clause was important. Did Rossi fail to pay taxes on the payment of the 1 or 10 M. That was a requirement.

    Quote from MrSelfSustain

    The E-Cat technology -- regardless of whatever happened at Doral -- works


    MrSS, you are truly a man of faith. It doesn't matter to you if Rossi is a con man, all the evidence he provides has to be true, even if he's a liar, the E-Cat results can't be made up, they can't be fraudulant, the Lugano test results can't possibly have been due to measurement error, it can't not be true, because.....


    Well, because it just has to be true that E-Cat works.


    It would be too unthinkable if it doesn't work. So it has to be true.


    Even despite abundant evidence of measurement error (Lugano) and dishonesty (in all things IH).


    I have to admit, you have great faith.


    Thanks for being honest.


    But it makes it difficult to have a rational conversation on that topic.


    Just sayin'...

    Quote from Alan Fletcher

    IF the water flow is 36K kg/day AND the pressure is 1 atm (0 gauge) AND the steam temperature is 103 THEN there IS a 100% phase change AND some super-heating.


    Not without additional information. There can be steam at that temperature coexisting with liquid water if there is not good mixing. True, at equilibrium you are right. Since when is a system pumped at 500g/s in equilibrium?

    It was Dewey's original insinuation that the heat of the steam was 100.1 C that brought me into active participation on this forum. The 100.1 C value was being publicly disputed by Rossi. Here is the original Dewey/IH Fanboy exchange:


    Rossi: “Steam Was Superheated” in 1MW Plant Test


    Jed backed up Dewey's 100.1 C value, and claimed it was from Rossi:


    Now IH have lost E-Cat License and IP, who will manufacture E-Cats in the US?


    LENR Calender challenged Jed on the 100.1 C claim:


    Now IH have lost E-Cat License and IP, who will manufacture E-Cats in the US?


    After much prodding by me and others, Jed eventually said it was 103 C.


    Now IH have lost E-Cat License and IP, who will manufacture E-Cats in the US?


    Now we see that the measured values show a minimum of 103 C. I never remember Jed stating that the 103 C value that he eventually retreated to was a minimum.


    This is quite disturbing. Dewey pushed the 100.1 C story and boasted that it was "very effective" and appeared to have "kilometers of legs left in the approach." Jed backed the claim, at least for awhile. It went straight to the heart of whether there was excess heat or not in the 1MW one year test. All the while, Rossi was publicly stating that the 100.1 C claim was inaccurate. As it turns out, Rossi was telling the truth. There is nary a mention of 100.1 C in the measured data.


    Dewey is now claiming that "all data in the ERV annex is completely manufactured by Rossi."


    Rossi vs. Darden developments - Part 2


    I suppose that is what one would have to pivot to in order to maintain consistency. And it is a possibility. From the evidence that has been disclosed so far, we know that Rossi is capable of, shall we say, creating mirages. Nevertheless, it doesn't explain where the original 100.1 C degree claim finds its support in the data.


    So my question to Dewey now is: where did the 100.1 C claim originate? Do you have access to some other set of data that hasn't been "completely manufactured by Rossi"?

    Quote from zeus46

    Only on Planet Thomas! The "ERV" data shows a COP above 6, even with no phase change. A 35C temperature rise of 36000kg water/day gives this. Fairly basic stuff here.

    And shortly afterwards you would realise the pressure drop along the length of the the pipe would be negligible... (assuming no condensation and the pipe is properly sized - to clarify: DN40 is never ever transporting 1MW of steam).



    We have no evidence there is a 35C temperature rise.

    If there is water flow with steam (as is very possible) the water can be a very different temperature from the steam

    If there is a recirculation path unmixed with the tank water then the water everywhere can be much higher than the tank temperature.


    The data we have is too incomplete for anything unless we know supply pipe dimensions, in which case it is almost certainly provably false.


    Not that this matters: it is Rossi's data and therefore worth nothing as it stands.

    Quote from Dewey Weaver

    Mr. SS - How dare you attempt to compare an esteemed RTG expert and accomplished scientist to a convicted criminal / confidence man. You should be ashamed of yourself.


    I'm only comparing them technologically. I'm saying nothing about their comparative morals, ethics, or behavior. My opinion is that the more primitive Ni-H tech of Rossi works, but once fully developed, Miley's technology would be far more sophisticated with associated gains in power density, reliability, durability, consistency, etc. For the record, when I say Rossi's technology works, that statement is of the technology as a whole and not specifically the test at Doral. What happened there is a big giant mess that I think will only be sorted out in court when various individuals involved and expert witnesses (on both sides) are made to answer questions and testify during the trial. But replications of the Rossi Effect (such as Songsheng's that self sustained for hours) convince me that the effect is indeed real and powerful. My guess is that proper hydrogenation and simutaneous creation of reaction sites is extremely challenging and difficult (for a dozen different reasons I could go into) and that's the reason for the majority of failures. I really like the test in which pretty much nothing happened because Songsheng's fuel was old and oxidized. Then he added supplemental hydrogen from a bottle maybe for twelve hours (don't remember exactly how long it was) and then when he tried again excess heat seemingly appeared.

    Quote from IH Fanboy

    This is quite disturbing. Dewey pushed the 100.1 C story and boasted that it was "very effective" and appeared to have "kilometers of legs left in the approach." Jed backed the claim, at least for awhile....


    Dewey is now claiming that "all data in the ERV annex is completely manufactured by Rossi."


    I wondered how long before someone brought this up. Fact is, 100.1C doesn't appear anywhere in the "ERV" report. Does this mean Dewey is a liar?


    THH, fair points. I'd like to see a pipe diagram too.

    Quote from IH Fanboy

    After much prodding by me and others, Jed eventually said it was 103 C.

    Now IH have lost E-Cat License and IP, who will manufacture E-Cats in the US?


    Now we see that the measured values show a minimum of 103 C. I never remember Jed stating that the 103 C value that he eventually retreated to was a minimum.

    What difference does it make? The industrial dial thermometers typically used with this kind of equipment are only good to within a few degrees. Whether it is 101 and 103 deg C, it is still going to be liquid water at any realistic pressure. See:


    https://durathermfluids.com/pd…ressure-boiling-point.pdf


    The numbers in the report are obvious bogus in any case. It lists 104.5 deg C for nine days in a row in May. Nine days! How likely is that? If you think that could happen you have never measured temperatures.

    OG - I don't know if Penon signed the cover report when he submitted the Annex docs but rest assured, when you see it, you're not going to be impressed in the least.

    To say that it was shabby work is an insult to shabbist the world over. It is a total joke just like the one being pulled on Planet Rossi right now. Belief is an amazing human trait. We'll have to include some of these observations when the final "Rossi Effect"definition is written.

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