Rossi vs. Darden developments [CASE CLOSED]

  • I agree with the arguments so far discussed about pipe diameter especially those presented by LENR Calendar and Paradigmnoia etc.

    However if we do not write off supersonic flow just yet. Has any one considered choked flow?

    And in particular the Fanno flow constraints.

    Choked flow makes use of Venturi effect:

    And requires a pressure drop at the other end of the choke to emit the steam at high velocity.

    Interestingly such systems the pipe length seems to be limited by Fanno flow constraints rather than pressure drop.

    If I understand correctly Fanno Flow introduces constraints on pipe length due to Choked flow especially at M1.

    Is anyone here actually a boiler engineer? I think Paradigmnoia and LENR Calander and maybe some others Alan maybe (?) might be from their comments. I guess this is outside the experience of a non expert such as me. If some one with that experience is here I just wonder if he can answer a few questions.

    Is possible to have supersonic flows at low pressure density?

    What kinds of pipe length would the Fanno choking constraint give rise too?

    Would there be constraints on the exit pipe such as should it be straight along the flow with out angles?

    Note these are technical questions about what is possible not what was actually implemented. I would prefer not to start another little battle. Thanks if you can answer.

  • With apologies to MrSS - my comments were intended for SSC and the rest of Planet Rossi for that matter.

    Still on the crusade against planet Rossi are u? I think u really have a chance on winning. Right after you finished off these vicious windmills...

  • I do get a little worked up every once in awhile taking on the knuckleheads from Planet Rossi.

    If you think about it, Rossi has to run the table and win on numerous issues with fatal flaws in each and every one of his positions. He does not have a single clean argument. Everything in his story has question marks at a minimum. Then add in the fact that he has to have a unanimous Jury verdict in Federal court (his choice). He has no path to victory. What was he thinking?

  • So levi was/is part of what you call "planet Rossi"? How big is this construct/conspiracy for u?

    Monty - that is uncalled for. Maybe Dewey means that, but it is not needed. Levi is merely (as some scientists are) so attached to his own pet theory and unwilling to look at evidence that he persists in error. Since anyone thinking LENR is likely real reckons 90% of scientists are like this adding Levi to the total should not be a problem?

    For famous (and much more celebrated) examples of this you could note Laithwaite, the "father of MagLev". i remember reading his testbooks when at school and finding them inspiring, as did many. He ended up in trouble claiming that gyroscopes proved non-Newtonian forces must exist (anti-gravity - so much more impressive even than MagLev!). He had his own experiments which he thought did this. He was alas a lousy experimental scientist in spite of being a great Machines engineer. Such a shame that he could not recognise his own limitations: but his other work remains inspirational.

  • Monty - High temp IR expertise on the material science side turns out to be hard to find with the temp gradients that Rossi was trying to have us all to believe in. That does look like Levi turning the fluid valve to the radiators in Para's pictures so perhaps he knows more about that machine than he does about pinball source code. Justa wondering-ah?

  • Following this "story" since January, 2011.

    I believe Rossi to be delusional, he so wants to be vindicated for all of his life's previous scientific failures that he invents these constantly changing "Rube Goldberg" apparatuses that no one can replicate to give the illusion of successful misunderstood genius.

    His "faithful" cannot possibly believe that they, as relatively intelligent people, were so gullible as to be hoodwinked by this quack, so they continue to develop the most insanely ridiculous possibilities/reasons of success because the alternative is unthinkable to them, they were wrong.

    It simply does not matter who wins this lawsuit, the obvious reality is that the Ecat has never produced Energy Out > Energy In

    And never will.

  • Dear Dewey,

    Syurely you know what a F.A.Q is- however in the discussion with you A N.A.Q - list of never answered questions is also necessary.

    Yesterday (see p 41) here you avoided to tell about showing to LF a diagram of the 1MW plant or some relevant photos so the discussions could e based on documented facts and not on hearsay, gossip or toxic imagination (see half full pipes, 40mm steam pipe not insiulated, supersonic steam and so on)

    Do you want truth even here - the Court gets it anyway.

    The mean trick of asking absolutely irrelevant question as in my case about the St. Andrew's Jewelry works only with children- it was used by some nasty Party propsgsndists in the old time and surely in the Tammany Hall too. It is inefficient and not very honest.

    This reminds me that Jed has added to the N.A.Q- he has not given his word of honor that Murray is right with the 40mm steam pipe. Notice that if this is true, proven, then the ERV data cannot be right the pipe MUST have a much greater diameter (pleaseShow the diagram) and answer. If not you will be at least two of; coward, lyer, dishonest.

    Dewey I wonder why you have difficulties in discussing with the Rossi Planet knuckleheads- I think you can easily find a common modus parlandi:


    a) you belong to IH more or less;

    b) Re the ERV document discusssed now, Jed has dstated tha any half-brainer can see for sure in less than 5 minutes that it has NO value;

    c) IH has not seen this and paid for it

    d) = a)

    But I do not dare to call you a knuclehead because I would not risk to e exiled from LF for iinadequate language.

    I also will not ask you if, with your gaffes you are not secretly preparing moving to Planet Rossi? No.

    It must be a limit in everything.


    PS O.K., this was a bit of chat, BUT where is the Diagram?

    The LF masses need the Digram not...mass manipulation.

  • as somebody who followed this story for about the same amount of time I am really interested in the outcome. Sure Rossi is an odd fellow. But so were Newton, Maxwell, Turing. But right you are, if Rossi wants his attention and admiration (and sure as anything he longs for it) he has to put something on the table. But this fixation of Dewey with his planet Rossi is ridiculous in my eyes. But maybe he needs this construction for some odd reason...

  • @Bob

    It is IH's duty to correct the record if they deposited information to the court docket that was mistaken or inaccurate, not Rossi's.

    You are doing it again. Trying to twist the issue back to IH and pointing the finger to them while protecting and shielding Rossi!

    1) Who says the pipe size is incorrect? IHFB from a photo of a completely different plant, where he makes approximations and assumptions on some minor forum that has no relevancy to the court proceedings? It is not their duty to answer questions this forum!

    2) You are twisting the actual subject to protect Rossi again, claiming IH stated the pipe size. They did not! Murray, the engineer of record for the party paying the bills (IH) simply sent requests to Penon for clarifications to the certain issues. Something he had EVERY right to do! One of these was "if the pipe size was.... how could...". A legitimate question. However, Penon nor Rossi answered him! You see, you should be stating that Rossi / Pennon failed in their duty to "correct" the issue. If the pipe size was not correct, they should have simply answered Murray with the correct one. They did not! Why, most likely because they could not contradict it! Why do you not say that Rossi / Penon failed to answer the questions of the IH engineer? IH owned the IP, they owned the plant and they were paying the bills for the Sale of Heat and plant monitoring as present by Rossi. Not a GPT. Again, a twist in the truth.

    3) Rossi filed the lawsuit. IH answered. Part of their answer was that Murray asked for answers to questions. Rossi / Penon never answered. In general, I say it is Rossi's duty to provide the specific information since HE started the lawsuit. IH is simply defending themselves. It is Rossi's responsibility as HE is making the accusations. One is innocent until proven guilty in this country. It is Rossi's "duty" as you say, to provide the factual evidence.

    However, as I have stated. You only point the finger at IH and never Rossi. You state that you are not happy with Rossi, but you never out and out call him out. You protect and shield him by always trying to deflect the blame back to IH.

    You should remember this.... Rossi always disappoints his followers! He will do so again here. Like the false prophet he is, he will lead his followers down the path of deception! (I was part of that crowd until I finally opened my eyes. So I speak from experience not pre-conception) :rolleyes:

  • puh Bob. Sorry but "a false prophet that leads his followers down the path of deception"? That makes Dewey and his planet Rossi sound like a sane thing. Why do u go down the religious metaphor way? I was hoping we were already further...

  • But I do not dare to call you a knuclehead because I would not risk to e exiled from LF for iinadequate language.

    New greek/latin word: apophasis, "denial of one's intention to speak of a subject that is at the same time named or insinuated". Harmless and a little funny.

    Peter, what's the point of asking for details that we already known won't be provided because there's a court case underway? There's probably a phrase for this rhetorical device as well.

  • to be clear here. Believing in something is for religious people and investors. I don't believe the e cat is real until I can buy one and install it in my basement. But I give it the benefit of the doubt. I also don't believe neither Rossi nor IH in their chain of arguments in the case going on right now. Neither chain does make any sense to me. So the thing I believe in is the verdict of the judge in the end. Because it is fact.

  • Dear Eric Walker,

    thanks- in professional life you need rhetorics too.

    I like this art.

    OK, continuing this long discussion now intensified due to the ERV core document without the Diagram of the plant is waste of time and creativity but it is convenient for those whohave no real proofs, believe me.

    QUESTION to you:

    From the Miami Court Pacermonitor we could learn that at least 2 new documents, 133 and 134 are on the docket but can not be seen if you do not have paid for subscription.

    Do you can see them? Have no idea how it works.



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