Rossi vs. Darden developments [CASE CLOSED]

  • I started to get to know Jed and Norman Cook during the opening lunch at ICCF-18 - a very fortunate introduction to real CF people. I met Dennis Cravens at NI13 and saw his Big Brass Balls mesmerize many folks over the next two days. He even served me a hot cup of tea for asking close to the right questions. (LENR assisted). Also met Dennis Letts and Rod Gimpel along with Dr. T that week in Austin. All I can say is friends for life for several of these folks. A very memorable and remarkable summer.

  • Just reading through this so interesting thread.

    I have been trying to make sense of the Rossi story for over a year now.

    Some days I thought he was a fraud.

    Other days it seemed he must have what he claims.

    There are certainly lots of confusion and claims and secrets and dare I say flim-flam.

    We have the science story, the technical story, the legal story, the investment story.

    We have Jed Rothwell and Krivit on one side and on the other side we have Frank Acland and Mats Lewan, all genuine and honest investigators.

    Rossi has had Focardi, Fabiani and Darden and many other smart people believing in him at some point.

    All of which may turn out to be based on nothing at all.

    One thought I would like to bring up for comment.

    It has been said that IH gave Rossi $10 million. Surely if Rossi was stuck for investment in his great invention then this would be his big chance to channel that money into making his dream come true. To purchase better equipment. Start some manufacturing perhaps.

    But allegedly he put the money into real-estate.

    To me that is very telling behaviour. He finally has some serious money and the most important thing he can do with it is sink it into real-estate. Like REALLY!!!

    • Official Post

    But allegedly he put the money into real-estate.

    To me that is very telling behaviour. He finally has some serious money and the most important thing he can do with it is sink it into real-estate. Like REALLY!!!


    No doubt IH was doing a WTF, just like many of us at the time. It sure was not a good sign, and only the most loyal Rossites could find an innocent explanation for it. I bet not a penny of it went to the children with cancer, like he promised.

  • Dewey Weaver wrote:

    "Shane - I'm not sure how many reactors were in Lugano."

    There were 3 units ....

    • Andrea Rossi November 26, 2014 at 2:29 PM

      Bernie Koppenhofer:

      The Hot-Cat that I gave to the Professors of the ITP has been given back to me the day after the day in which the reactor has been turned off. The Professors had only one reactor, because the other 2 that I brought to Lugano as spare parts, just in case of breakages, have not been delivered to the Professors, since no breakages happened to the one we gave them to be tested.

      Warm Regards,


  • "But allegedly he put the money into real-estate. To me that is very telling behaviour. He finally has some serious money and the most important thing he can do with it is sink it into real-estate. Like REALLY!!!"

    yes, he still had the rights for half the world. He could have taken the money and built devices in Europe and made a mint. Sure looks like he did not believe in his own devices.

  • and Norman Cook

    Did not Norman Cook write a paper in "collaboration" with Rossi?

    I know Rossi often posted about it and how much he was learning!

    Can you shed any light on what Mr. Cook's opinion of Rossi is now or if they are still collaborating?


  • To be fair Florida real estate was likely a very safe yet profitable investment if you need to park money somewhere for a couple of years whilst sorting out the American side.

    Yes, apparently more safe and profitable than all those secretly-financed secret robotic factories churning out secret Rossi machines, producing secret heat, to secret satisfied customers who seem to secretly not pay for their Rossi machines.

    It's a good thing he still had millions and millions of capital left over for real estate. First IH, and then all these non-paying secret customers. Rossi is such a victim!

  • My response to you was sincere and within the bounds of what I can share.

    I understand that there are limits to what you can share with us. I didn't want to insist. My questions were mostly rhetorical, just to introduce what it might be deduced from the available information. And also, as you could have seen, I started from your answers, so I did consider sincere all of them. The derived hypothetical scenario comes from the effort to fit your answers with the rest of the information provided by firsthand witnesses, as Krivit and Macy herself.


    For the record Michael Melich was not involved in any of TD's initial CF conversations and they met / spoke for the first time in Padua.

    OK, thank you again. I take note of this. In such a case I should deduce, from your own words, that you have been one of the first IH investors to have been in touch with Melich. Your words demonstrate also that you are very familiar with him and his wife, so you are well informed. But, I don't want ask you anything more of what you said about him. However, it seems to me that it is impossible to judge the role of Rossi in the Ecat affair without figuring out what has been that of Melich.


    I consider Mike, along with the rest of the Navy scientist that I've met over the past 4 years, to be honorable, smart, honest and hard working folks.

    No doubts about that, believe me. I don't want threaten the honorability, smartness, honesty and hard working goodwill of anyone. But, after having attributed all these characteristics at the same time to the Navy scientists which followed for so long Rossi and the Ecat affair, the only scenario whose I can think about is a big bluff.

  • Bob - several excellent visits and discussions with Norman Cook last year.

    I think that it is okay to share that Cook's communications with Rossi were not as advertised on JNOP. Norman shared that he never got any real data directly from Rossi and had to pick up experimental data from the published reports.

    He was alway hopeful for Rossi's experiments and held on to the relationship with an eye on getting data that would help improve his theory and model. Now he is concerned about the damage this is doing on the CF side of his research. Fortunately he has a teaching / income stream in another line of research and that is going well. Another good man caught up in R's web of deception.

    Does anyone remember Norman's quote about Rossi from his ICCF-20 presentation?

  • After reading your many accounts of repression under communist rule, you of all should be as angry with his misuse of the JONP, as you were with your former dictators abusive propaganda? Maybe a difference in scale, but Nicolae Ceaușescu created a cult of personality and distorted his achievements by controlling Romanian media, and Rossi IMO is attempting to do the same with his JONP, and "Andrea".

    Not just a difference in scale.... The Romanian media spread news everywhere in the Country, with every kind of communications medium, so people could know only one truth, the distorted one. Rossi writes his own truth in his own blog: if you want you can skip his words and hear many other bells. Where is the dictatorship in this case? How can you even think of comparing these two characters??

  • In general, I say it is Rossi's duty to provide the specific information since HE started the lawsuit. IH is simply defending themselves. It is Rossi's responsibility as HE is making the accusations. One is innocent until proven guilty in this country. It is Rossi's "duty" as you say, to provide the factual evidence.

    As a matter of fact there are two lawsuits. IH is not simply defending themselves, they too made a lawsuit accusing Rossi and the Third Party. Everyone now has to submit its factual evidences.

  • But it still seems very strange behavior to not answer the questions from IH, assuming that Rossi had some good answers. I think it will look quite bad for Rossi if it can be proved in court that Rossi sued instead of answering the questions. If nothing else he gave IH a perfect excuse for not paying.

    I don't think so. If you think for a moment that IH never wanted to pay for the test in Doral, you can easily realize why they began asking so many questions about the ERV data just approaching the end of the test. They created a justification to be used in the lawsuit to come, since it was now clear to both parties that there would be a complaint. Maybe this is not your point of view, but I think that it was Rossi's point of view. So why answering the questions if you think that those questions are just a way to create an alibi for not having to pay?

  • I have heard he did not particularly want the 1-year test. Rossi insisted on it. Darden allowed it because it did not cost him anything. I.H. had already tested the machine by that time.

    Really? But now he complains of the money lost in this affair.......

    From document 129: .... IH and IPH incurred expenses after the Plant was moved to Florida that they would not have incurred had they not been deceived by the Third Party Defendants [...]. These expenses included all maintenance on the Plant during the time it was in Florida, an expense which, would have been borne by Rossi and Leonardo had the Term Sheet never been entered into.

  • The pressure was probably atmospheric. In real data, you will have same numbers that show up every day. The temperature of the reservoir could have remained the same because the reactor output is not directly proportional to power input. The machine could have produced heat on days when Rossi reported that a reactor was turned off, because Rossi had at least one backup reactor.

    I agree with you, everything "could be". We don't have a complete view of all the data and information related to the Plant, so it is useless trying to draw conclusions....It would be just a pastime for idle people.

  • Ascoli65 - I was the first in the IH network to communicate with Michael and Marianne starting back at ICCF-18. I have nothing but great things to say about both of them. I've learned a lot about the early US E-Cat demonstrations and several of the Navy folks believed that they witnessed at least one credible demonstration back in the early days. No one was ever able to dig into the setup / experiment details and that alone was all several other researchers needed to know in reaching their conclusion. We're still working on those forensics and may have the answer to how everyone was fooled. That is going to take some additional time to resolve.

    Maybe you can help with this from the Italian side - I could not believe that Rossi sea shipped the original 1MW blue container from Italy to Norfolk VA with fully loaded "reactors" sitting on top of the unit. I eventually caught on as to why he didn't seem to care about security and protection of the "reactors" / "fuel".