Rossi vs. Darden developments [CASE CLOSED]

  • Dewey


    I know it is fun and easy to take a pot shot at Rossi fans.

    But, will all due respect, it takes two to tango (in this case Rossi needed IH as his partner).


    This field is full of cow pats, by which I mean poor science, smart but possibly self-deluding experimenters, and at least one fraudster.

    Has the lesson been learned from Rossi?

    Has IH put in place improved evaluation measures to make sure they do not make such a mistake again?

  • THH - thank you for your ongoing observations. My hunch is that a line of science is about to open up that has 100 years of discovery ahead as a co-traveler.

    The answers may have been right before our very eyes since the earliest days of CF. The answers may also have been hiding within the mainstream body of work as well which makes the acceptance challenge a whole lot easier if we can have some math and confirming experiments reasonably land in agreement.


    The next couple of years may be seminal but it remains helpful to remember that in the crawl, walk, run compendium - we may only just be starting to figure out how to crawl.

  • One technical point, about people "insulting each others"...

    there are some way to use dirty words that kids should not use, and this is insults. It is forbidden here. POINT. thanks for those who stay clean.


    Now when people disagree deeply on a subject, build theory about the other people to explain the disagreement, their opinion can be felt as insulting.


    For example if you say Defkalion is genuine technology, you are insulting Luca Gamberale.

    If you say Luca is right, you are insulting Defkalion's staff.

    In fact it is not insult, it is deep critics, accusations, opinion having huge consequences.


    If someone says I am paid by IH to spread FUD, I could interpret it as an insult... Or I can be sad because some one is so stuck to his beliefs in Rossi that to solve the cognitive dissonance he have to abandon past trust in my honesty...


    So, don't feel insulted if someone say you are paid by alien lizard to destroy humanity... accept you hare facing someone building a theory, forced to consider you are paid by alien lizard. Accept also you may be wrong, and accept facts when evidences are shown... I know it s painful.


    Don't hope you can convince the other camp. Best is to state your ideas clearly, calmly, so the lukewarmers get cooled.

    I follow the ECW forum, and i see there are mostly supporters talking... But i know that lurkers have grown.


    Only physicist try to convince the other in a debate.

    You have to talk to the lurkers.

    Talk to the 4th wall as we say on stage.

  • Dewey,

    with mutual sympathy I understand what your words say however if the Rossi Effect is non-existant- nada, WTF should it be "studied for years"?

    The problem is with your formulation- here self -contradictory

    and with your stereotipies. When my grandchildren use a too narrow language i ask them to read the 'Nose' monolog from Cyrano de Bergerac. I sincerely fear you are a quasi- monolingual, that, paradoxically is bad for clarity.


    BUT what is essential you are coordinating an ambitious LENR- real excess heat WW program and my question was about this. Please answer and do not try to show that I am a stupid savage comng from the Rossi Planet ( Iam living in a different place, that is sure)

    Peter


    PS some friends here are discontented with my English.


    It was the 5th language I met in Timisoara my native town, - after Romanian, Hungarian, German (Schwabisch), Serbian (I forgot it fast when the Serbians all emigrated in Tito's times), Russian (at school) English I had teachers at home for many years. As researcher I had to read in a few other languages, see what i wrote yesterday about information.


    I repeat - not getting what Dewey wanted to say has NO linguistic roots- at least not in my case.

  • Impossible to believe I made a momentary mistake?

    Sorry, sir, it's impossible to me. The "18 hours" is an immediately recognizable trademark of a test that everyone who followed this story since 2011 knows very well, because it has been the only one based on liquid phase calorimetry. And you have been the main supporter of the reliability of its results, so I cannot believe that you made such a mistake, and I wonder how many others here can believe that.


    It looks to me that your strategy here is trying to make the people forget the REAL first tests made by Levi at the beginning of 2011. It seems that you want the people think that the first test made by him is the Ferrara test on the HotCat. You already did it many times, for example answering to Mary Yugo (1) and thereafter objecting to my comment to him (2).


    I got the impression that you are trying to divert the attention far away from the 2011 tests, in order to focus it on the last and less documented tests.


    Quote

    Evidently I was wrong. The effect was never independently replicated, and it turned out Rossi was deceptive in ways I did not anticipate.

    The Ecat tests held in 2011 were deceptive in ways, that you were more than able to anticipate, and that you should have known at that time. Ways that many people on Vortex, and elsewhere, told and explained you shortly after each test, and that you have regularly and stubbornly denied.


    Quote

    I don't know what to make of the earlier results.

    You don't, but they still remain in the history for explaining people the real nature of the Ecat affair, which, considering also your special and privileged role, could be easily extended to the whole CF/LENR field.


    (1) Jed Rothwell on an Unpublished E-Cat Test Report that “Looks Like it Worked”

    (2) Jed Rothwell on an Unpublished E-Cat Test Report that “Looks Like it Worked”

  • Okay Peter - I realize what you're doing but we'll play one more round of this game. The "Rossi Effect" will have its roots in mind-control, belief systems, separating well intentioned folks from their money, manipulating the narrative using digital tools (he has a soon to be famous quote about that from several years ago) and, one day, might just also be a psychological study across more than segment in that field. We'll get around to naming the fields after summary judgement or the trial, which ever comes first.

  • Sorry, sir, it's impossible to me. The "18 hours" is an immediately recognizable trademark of a test that everyone who followed this story since 2011 knows very well, because it has been the only one based on liquid phase calorimetry. And you have been the main supporter of the reliability of its results, so I cannot believe that you made such a mistake, and I wonder how many others here can believe that.


    OK, count me as one who believes that Jed is sincere when he says he made a mistake.


    I do research (I write grants, I get funded, I publish the results, I am involved in peer review of other's publications).


    Among the researchers in my field, I can safely say that all of them are earnest in their endeavors. I disagree with some of them and their findings, but I don't think any of them are out to intentionally deceive.


    Intentional deception in a field is a real game-changer, because it's so unexpected among researchers. It throws well-intentioned people off course.


    As a researcher, it seems obvious to me that this is the explanation for the Swedish researchers and Jed's initial acceptance of Rossi's findings.


    It is hard for me to understand why you can't see that it's Rossi's deception that is the cause of the initial positive confirmations, but instead you have to invent some big conspiracy theory where Rossi is merely a pawn. Maybe it's because you haven't done research? It's hard to overstate how disruptive and damaging it can be to a research field when a research entity intentionally deceives.


    The answer to the enigmatic initially positive confirmations of Rossi's results is simple: surprisingly, they were conned.

  • Okay Peter - I realize what you're doing but we'll play one more round of this game. The "Rossi Effect" will have its roots in mind-control, belief systems, separating well intentioned folks from their money, manipulating the narrative using digital tools (he has a soon to be famous quote about that from several years ago) and, one day, might just also be a psychological study across more than segment in that field. We'll get around to naming the fields after summary judgement or the trial, which ever comes first.

    Sorry, your last sentence is fuzzy.

    You seem to be a greater expert in Rossiology than me, I

    no idea about the quote- and my collection is well over

    150,000 quotes in English only.

    Rossi is interesting for me as inventor. invention can be considered a special form of problem solving.


    As naming the fields- I think you are familiar with FLOW

    of Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi then you could use HALFFLOW EFFECT- being given that the half filled pipes explain what happened in the Doral Plant- I will try to make it sound more scientific- old Greek, Latin?


    peter

  • Dewey,


    Thanks for clarifying your role even further. That and your job description I posted above, definitely adds some weight to your words. In your position, I think it very unlikely you would say the things about Rossi; the "GPT", Lugano, paint, plumbing, his history, etc you have said, if you could not back it up with solid proof. Not that I needed more confirmation of Rossi's character...or lack of, but it is good to hear it from an inside source nonetheless.


    Looks like IH is the LENR way forward. With McKubre's exit from scene as the unofficial spokesman, IMO the field needs someone, or something, to take his place and more, and looks like IH is perfectly suited to get the job done. And sounds like you are doing just that...good on you, and your team.


    You mentioned "summary judgement" also. It baffles me that IH has not yet requested one, based on what is almost certainly a fact that Rossi lied about JMP, his role in it, production, customer...all that. I know Rossi denied those allegations in his response, but he has not provided any proof to back his assertions, so I wonder if he is telling the judge verbally he has proof, will show it at trial, and she is accepting him on his word? That is the only reason I can think of why this has not been tossed yet, or IH has not submitted the SJ. Or maybe they are about to do that? Confusing, but hey, I am not Abd. :)


    Thanks for the work you guys are doing. Most of us are all pulling for you.

  • Peter - Rossi is a great inventor alright - a pioneer in many regards who does have his place in history.


    Regarding 20 questions - game over. Thanks for playing.

    Best of luck moving forward,

    Dewey

    Game over for today, but it was my pleasure. Always ready to help you with information. This includes the LENR program

    lead (?) by you.

    But to be correct- you owe me 2 answers- 1 riddle, 1 quote by Andrea Rossi- you made me curious.

    Wish you a fine weekend.

    Peter

  • Sorry, sir, it's impossible to me.

    You have a limited imagination. Say, are you a HAL 9000 computer? You must be perfect. You never make a mistake!


    This is ridiculous. I make a minor error. I find the wrong document -- one of thousands. I forget some minor detail about Rossi, who is one researcher out of thousands. Because I made this inconsequential error you come out of the woodwork and accuse me being a leading member of a nefarious conspiracy. Earlier I reported one of the temperatures Rossi gave me: 101 deg C. Later, I replaced with another temperature he gave me: 103 deg C. The difference between them is inconsequential in this context. You could not measure that difference with confidence, and at either temperature the water would be liquid, not vapor. Based on that trivial correction, people leaped to accuse me of being in league with a Nefarious International Conspiracy to Suppress Cold Fusion. You people are a bunch of tinfoil-hat conspiracy mongers who have no idea how thermometers work, and -- in you case -- no idea how many papers and authors I deal with. Thousands!

    The "18 hours" is an immediately recognizable trademark of a test

    It isn't "immediately recognizable." "18 hours" does work as a search term, but I did not think to use it as one.

  • Peter - the "Rossi Effect" is going to be studied for years to come but will have nothing to do with LENR. You are exhibit c and are making important contributions

    in that regard. That is all I want to say for now. By the way, did you solve the riddle?

    IH would be well served to release all the Rossi provided INFO involving the Rossi reaction to the open source community to allow that community to run tests to see if Rossi's technology is a fraud. This verification would support IH in their claims about Rossi.


    Sunshine is the best disinfectant.

  • Shane D - thank you for your comments. Mike McKubre's shoes are not retired yet and I am certainly not anywhere near being capable of even carrying his shoes. Hoping that he'll be back soon - the world needs him.

    Regarding your question, the pleadings have to be closed before you can reasonably reach the SJ stage of the litigation process. I like this Judge and expect her to be tough on both sides as this moves forward.

  • Dewy,


    Considering your position now, I offer one word of advice I have learned after a 35 year career of being in a leadership position...always pick up the tab for your crew/team. I joke you not. No matter how expensive, trust me, it is worth the price. They will follow you to the ends of the world, and forever be grateful, when you do. But from the few pics of you I have seen at the ICCF's, I think you already do that. :)

  • Of course he's a part in the case. That has not been a secret since he stoped writing under the name NcHawk. Dewey has never denied being a part in the case. But that doesn't make him a troll. If Rossi, Pennon or Fabiani came here and write about theire side of the story. Under theire real name, would you consider them as trolls as well?

    I certainly wouldn't consider them unbiased.

  • If only P and F had (had) passionated supporters like IHFB back in the day. And has it occurred to you that posting on this forum might actually be part of Dewey's day job responsibilities?

  • Seems like that would keep him busy enough to preclude posting so much on here, again, unless this is actually part of his job.