Rossi vs. Darden developments [CASE CLOSED]

Jed,

You are seriously one of the most depressing people I have ever conversed with. I'm really left with no choice now but to go eat worms.

Quote from JedRothwell

There is no government-funded initiative in Japan.

"The budget for this program this year is ¥3,410,000,000 [$27 million]," Iwasuji wrote. (Referring to 2015.)

http://news.newenergytimes.net…fund-lenr-research-again/

“The joint research team (Nano-METS) comprises six institutions: two companies, Technova and Nissan; and four universities, Tohoku, Kyushu, Nagoya and Kobe.”

http://news.newenergytimes.net…rship-in-lenrs-continues/

"Japanese industry, government, and academia announce the opening of a new cold fusion lenr R&D facility at the prestigious Tokohu University."

http://atom-ecology.russgeorge…-fusion-lenr-rd-facility/

Just a small sampling, by the way.

Quote

I do not know of any successful initiative in India. I am sure I would have heard from Srinivasan if there was one. I know that he and others are trying to interest the government, but they have not succeeded.

Alain summarized what is happening in India:

India: NTPC Organizes Third LENR-India Forum Meeting in Bengalore (involving NIAS/NETRA)

And as for Russia, Peter knows much more about what is going on. Here he summarizes the Russian National LENR Research Plan:

http://egooutpeters.blogspot.c…l-lenr-research-plan.html

That's right, a PID in the grey controller.

How else do you think the temperature was held steady?

Quote from IH Fanboy

"The budget for this program this year is ¥3,410,000,000 [$27 million]," Iwasuji wrote. (Referring to 2015.)

That was a proposed budget.

Quote from IH Fanboy

“The joint research team (Nano-METS) comprises six institutions: two companies, Technova and Nissan; and four universities, Tohoku, Kyushu, Nagoya and Kobe.”

I suggest you contact them and ask whether they got the money.

Quote from IH Fanboy

Alain summarized what is happening in India:

India: NTPC Organizes Third LENR-India Forum Meeting in Bengalore (involving NIAS/NETRA)

That is a meeting to ask for funding. It failed. They were not granted funding.

Quote from Paradigmnoia

That's right, a PID in the grey controller.

How else do you think the temperature was held steady?

I have no context. Are you pointing to the possibility/probability that the PID was driving heating coils? So we have a finely controlled (analog vs. 'binary' thermostat) water heater? I assume speculate that's what the E-Cat really is, a 20 to 100 KW water heater set to boiling (103 deg). (Yes, IHFB, pure speculation on my part)

But my knowledge of the extant photos is dwarfed by yours. Could you elaborate?

@Jed

You cherry pick from the links and evidence I provide, and ignore the others. You provide no evidence for your statements. Just more Jed-says.

In contrast, we have Alan S. going straight to the source:

Japan LENR project sponsored through NEDO...

Here, they talk about the new lab at Tokohu University being 90% completed.

http://coldfusionnow.org/openi…lab-at-tohoku-university/

Alain again (well done tracking these developments!)

Japan LENR project sponsored through NEDO...

Quote from IH Fanboy

@Jed

You cherry pick from the links and evidence I provide, and ignore the others. You provide no evidence for your statements. Just more Jed-says.

In contrast, we have Alan S. going straight to the source:

Japan LENR project sponsored through NEDO...

Here, they talk about the new lab at Tokohu University being 90% completed.

http://coldfusionnow.org/openi…lab-at-tohoku-university/

Alain again (well done tracking these developments!)

Japan LENR project sponsored through NEDO...

Display More

It is important to start at the beginning and understand what the primary goals of what Jed understands apply to LENR as a priority and how his arguments support these goals.

Quote from IH Fanboy

You cherry pick from the links and evidence I provide, and ignore the others. You provide no evidence for your statements. Just more Jed-says.

In contrast, we have Alan S. going straight to the source:

Alan did not go straight to the source. He cannot read Japanese. I went straight to the source because my contacts in Japan pointed it out to me, and because I can do a Google search in Japanese. The source is the web pages at NEDO describing the proposed funding:

http://www.nedo.go.jp/koubo/CA1_100134.html

Here is the plan:

http://www.nedo.go.jp/content/100798677.pdf

This says the budget is $1 million per year for 20 years. The plan was to solicit RFPs in 15 areas. One of the original RFP categories was cold fusion. Item D5: "Analysis and control of new thermal reaction in metal hydrides" (金属水素間新規熱反応の現象解析と制御). This is no longer listed in current copies of the plan.

Here is a search for that topic within current NEDO web pages:

site:http://www.nedo.go.jp 金属水素間新規熱反応

This leads to a preliminary study from last year:

http://www.nedo.go.jp/library/…01607/20160000000621.html

That document is partly in English. Read it, and judge for yourself. 1/15 of $1 million is not a lot of money. The NEDO site can be hard to reach, so here is the English text, in case you have trouble accessing the document.

Interim Report for the period of H-27 (2015) to H-28 (2016) on
R&D Subject: Advanced Research Program for Energy and Environmental Technologies
/ Phenomenology and Controllability of New Exothermic Reaction between Metal and Hydrogen

Outline of Project:

This NEDO-MHE (metal hydrogen energy) project aims at verification of the new exothermic reaction of nano-metal hydrogen gas systems and clarification of development subjects for the next stage national project, by the following works:

1) Installation of a new precise calorimetry system in Tohoku University and confirmation of the new exothermic reaction by it.

2) Evaluation of the new exothermic phenomena between nano-metal and hydrogen gas from various analysis angles of co-operating experimental works of 6 collaborated parties (Technova Inc., Nissan Motors Co., Tohoku U., Kyushu U., Nagoya U, Kobe U.) .

3) Feasibility study on realization of commercial energy devices and status study on world- wide works.

4) To hold the leading R&D committee in every two months to discuss status results academically and strategically.


Brief Summary of Implemented Works:

1) A design was made for new MHE calorimetry facility by improving/adding temperature sensors, heat flux estimation, and oil cooling parts to the basic Technova-Kobe MHE experimental system, aiming at more precise calorimetric evaluation of proposed MHE sample runs. In the reported period, we have finished ordering necessary components/parts, and some have been already delivered to Tohoku University for the system assembling to be started in April 2016.

2) By using the existing MHE experimental system at Technova-Kobe U in Fukae Campus, examination works have been done with two typical MHE samples (PS3=nanoPd/mesosilica and PNZ3=Pd1Ni7/ZrO2) to carry out multi-angle analyses on excess heat phenomena which are difficult to explain by ordinary chemical reactions.

Discussion has been done for preparing next samples for MHE examination. Kyushu University and Nagoya University are independently making own designed nano-metal samples. These samples will be tested in May and July 2016.

3) Survey works on world-wide works on anomalous excess heat phenomena by various methods are underway, for understanding current status of technological developments.

4) Leading R&D Committee meetings: The first LRDC meeting was held at Technova on February 5 2016 with attendees from 6 parties, NEDO members and an external science monitor.

Presentations on analyses of No.1 co-operational experiment with PS3 sample were made by 6 parties, and development status of each party was reported. Some hot discussions were exchanged on experimental data and future planned works. LRDC will be held in every two months.

Quote from IH Fanboy

Here, they talk about the new lab at Tokohu University being 90% completed.

I am aware of the status of the research at Tohoku U.

As I said here before, they presented their results at MIT and at the ICCF conference. I translated some of their MIT slides. I analyzed the data they presented and wrote a short summary of my findings. I believe they made significant errors which negate their claims. I circulated this analysis to the Tohoku researchers and to some other researchers. A lawyer for Clean Planet contacted me in Japanese, ordering me to cease and desist, not to use their data for any purpose, etc., so on, and so forth. As I said, I have a low opinion of them because of this. To say the least, it is a violation of academic norms to give a public lecture at a university and then threaten to sue someone for analyzing the data you present.

@Jed

Thanks for providing all of that additional info, which looks to support my position.

Well that's certainly a strange comment and view of the rather dire situation that Jed has outlined. Do you wear special glasses that invert the image on the x axis along with the luminance?

Quote from IH Fanboy

Thanks for providing all of that additional info, which looks to support my position.

Can you tell the difference between $67,000 and $20,000,000? Your position was there is a multi-million dollar project. This document indicates there are a few meetings with a "hot" dispute (an angry discussion) and barely enough money to fund a grad student over summer vacation.

sigmoidal ,

The old controller looked like the first image (circa 2012).

In Lugano, a different control box was used, which had inputs for three thermocouples, and three PIDs. All three were hooked up in the Vessy photo.

I don't know how three can work at once, with one power output (Compact Fusion box).

(Presumably one could switch the output to be controlled from whichever was hottest).

Quote from AlainCo

Yes, that is a point that shocked me in the interpretaion of the Lugano testers. When someone say you may have made a big mistake, you say , thanks, or sorry,

Alain I think that the Authors had listened the blah blah blah against Lugano from about three years now.

If the first time they checked, finding that they were right, and the second time they eventually checked again finding again that the criticism were ill based,

then at the n-time when the same ill formed topic is proposed again from a guy connected to a millionaire company they of course are disgusted.

Is the business interest and not any love for Science that is motivating IH and Weaver.

There is nothing to thank for or to be sorry with this type of person.

Quote from Paradigmnoia

So when Rossi says the camera was only focussed on the reactor not the caps he is totally wrong.

If you write about the report you should read it.

Rossi is not one of the authors of the report and I presume that after three years he forgot some of the pictures and the text.

So he maybe wrong. In the report is explained how cameras (two IR cameras) were used.

Quote from ele

If the first time they checked, finding that they were right, and the second time they eventually checked again finding again that the criticism were ill based . . .

Well, they never responded. They promised they would respond, and many accomplished people in this field took them up on that and asked questions, but they did not respond. So, if they found they were right, they kept that a secret. It makes you wonder why.

For example, they never told me what color the reactor was. That is not a difficult question to answer. "Orange" means it didn't work and the IR camera was wrong. That's what the photos showed. "White" means it might have worked a little, but not as much as claimed. "So bright you can't look at it without a welder's mask" means their measurements were correct. See? That's not hard. That does not call for checking and rechecking. You just name the color. Not answering that simple question was not only rude, but their silence makes me suspect they do not have a good answer, and they don't want to talk about it.

That question -- along with the others I saw -- was not ill based.

(Granted, the other questions were way more technical than mine, so I guess they would have called for some checking.)

Quote from Malcolm Lear

ele, facebook link does not work.

Ok I was logged on BTW I'm not in linkedIn so the link of Sha does not work for me.

Here is the picture from FB:

The microcontroller board is in the center covered partially by the sticker the rest is digital IO and power interface for the actuators. Inthat board there is all the necessary to control a small robot.

Thanks ele

Quote from THEDEBATEISUSELESS

I'd also like to say that a replication of the Rossi Effect (providing the information on fuel treatment and EM stimulation to others) is a hundred times more important than re-hashing an old experiment.

This makes no sense. If the old experiment is wrong, there is nothing to replicate. The effect has never been seen, and it probably does not exist.

Skilled people at I.H. spent a year looking for it, and found nothing, so I doubt there is anything to be found. If it does not exist, it isn't important. Right?

I suppose you might say "testing to see if the Rossi effect exists is important." But apart from Rossi's notoriety, I do not see why this particular claim is especially important. If I won the lottery, I would pay people to check 10 or 20 different claims. This one does not deserve a high priority. As I said, it was already checked by I.H. Assuming it does exist, what makes it more important than other claims? Lots of cold fusion effects might exist, and have been reported from time to time. Cold fusion with Ti and Au have been replicated. So I guess that makes them more promising than Rossi's unconfirmed nanoparticle Ni claim.

Quote from JedRothwell

Well, they never responded. They promised they would respond, and many accomplished people in this field took them up on that and asked questions, but they did not respond.

No Jed. They never promised anything to anybody.

No Academic will ever answer to criticism of such very low level and from anonymous source.

There is still people who criticize the Theory of Relativity and even who things that the Earth is flat square and still, nobody from any University will ever engage a discussion with that kind of people.

Quote from JedRothwell

For example, they never told me what color the reactor was.

All this trouble about "the color" is completely ill formed because color in a digital photo and in a digital documents is not an objective measure.