Rossi vs. Darden developments [CASE CLOSED]

    Quote from Bob

    the prior tests (Lugano etc.)

    Come on Bob ! Lugano has nothing to do with any contract. Lugano was done because as a continuation of the Ferrara Hot cat test.

    IH signed the contract after they have done their own tests in Ferrara on the 1 MW Ecat with their own Engineers.

    Quote from Bob

    Lugano has been analyzed and found defective at best.

    Again the usual blah blah blah. All the critics to Lugano are ill based at best but most probably they have been conceived on porpoise so to make IH not to pay.

    Quote from Bob

    Rossi and Fabiani were there 100% of the test and the professors only occasionally visiting, how much we do not know yet

    Are you trying to suggest that "Rossi te Evil" and "Fabiani the Devil" have manipulated the aparatus ?

    Again another false argument. There was a full video record with IR cameras and data loggers of the whole experiment. There ware two cameras and two power meters always connected. Every operation was recorded. This is also clearly written in the report.

    In modern experiments DAQ systems are automatic and can be controlled remotely. So the continuous presence of the experimenter is not needed .

    Quote from Bob

    that people are holding off on spending money doing research

    As far as we know there are big players in the LENR field that are investing money. Japan is a good example but you can find more reading this forum.

    Quote from Bob

    It is because Rossi's actions have been exposed.

    Your preamble was false and the conclusion also. The trial is still on going and from what I can see are the action of IH that have been exposed.

    Also the large part of the LENR research that is on going in the world have nothing to do with Rossi or IH so it can't be influenced by this trial.

    Quote from Henry

    Did you never heard the definition of: "conflict of interest" in your country? (I hope you don't live in a "banana republic")


    Regardless the "little money" (little it's just a your opinion), is this a clear case of the above definition or not?

    No.

    Everything was done openly and with the approval of the University.

    It was an activity done openly with a clear research program that have produced a tangible deliverable (the board).

    What you are writing is another example of FUD.

    Quote from JedRothwell

    They were messages signed by us, including some important people in this field. I repeat: they did not respond.


    See, your problem is, you don't know what you are talking about.

    Really Jed ? Show us the "messages" of "important people".

    Quote from JedRothwell

    That was another of the questions we asked, which was not answered. I think I asked about that, as well as the color. No answer.

    Quote from Paradigmnoia

    then there is a temperature being measured and almost certainly that temperature is displayed.

    Ha ha ha ha.....:D:D:D that answer is in the report itself ! And in this forum also !

    The TC was part of the reactor control system and was in a position unknown to the researchers.

    That why they have not considered it ! It was meaningless for them !

    Quote from JedRothwell

    It makes no difference what they told me. I visited them and determined the answers for myself. Many people in this field have visited them.

    Yes Jed many investors giving money to Darden.

    There was no problem at that time.

    Quote from ele

    Again the usual blah blah blah. All the critics to Lugano are ill based at best but most probably they have been conceived on porpoise so to make IH not to pay.


    The Lugano emissivity problem was demonstrated by March, 2015.

    So unless IH has a time machine, the "most probably" mentioned above is silly. Also, no one was supposed to know that IH was to pay a large fee for a GPT at that time.


    Most certainly, however, it is clear that the total emissivity of alumina (even if the entire Lugano device was actually made of alumina) is not the correct value to use for the Optris camera emissivity function.

    The recursive emissivity method (as applied in the report) is also a load of bunk. It requires multiple IR wavelengths to function properly. Even the reference cited in the Lugano report says this.

    Quote from ele

    The TC was part of the reactor control system and was in a position unknown to the researchers.

    That why they have not considered it ! It was meaningless for them !


    Well, it certainly looks a lot less meaningless now. It may not have been ideal for calculating power, but it sure would say something about the general temperature range of the reactor.

    Quote from ele

    Lugano has nothing to do with any contract.

    I believe Lugano was one of the conditional tests that the 10 million was paid on. However, I am not 100% sure about this. It surely did effect IH's initial belief in the eCat.


    Quote from ele

    been conceived on porpoise so to make IH not to pay.

    This is silly. IH is not going to listen to some anonymous poster on some little read blog. The "critics" came from their own 1 year investigation into trying to get the eCat to work. They then consulted other experts on the Lugano results. Look at Darden's report, he was dubious of the Lugano optical measurements before the test! There is no blah, blah here other than the supporters desire and unfounded factual support.

    Quote from ele

    There was a full video record with IR cameras and data loggers of the whole experiment.

    Rossi stated many times that "millions of data points" were taken at Doral. Were they? We have not seen any and the court has threatened sanctions on Rossi if he does not provide the recorded data. (After the third request). Have you seen the videos from Lugano? Have you seen the data logs? Everyone was led to believe, even the final report was worded as such, that Rossi was not involved in the tests except at the very beginning and end. It turns out the he conducted the entire test! Why the subterfuge? Yes, I am saying it is possible that the data could have been manipulated, just like it was at Doral. You have not evidence proving that Lugano was independent and there is evidence that Rossi completely ran the test. Sounds very familiar to all other tests, including Doral does it not!

    Quote from ele

    big players in the LENR field that are investing money.

    We know of two projects that "big players" are investing. Texas Tech and Brillouin. Texas Tech in working on theory and Brillouin on a pulse activated reactor.

    No solid evidence that others are spending significant amounts at this time. As far as India here is what LFHSAM stated :


    Rossi vs. Darden developments - Part 2



    Quote from ele

    Your preamble was false and the conclusion also. The trial is still on going and from what I can see are the action of IH that have been exposed.

    We both have our opinions. The courts will decide on some of the fraud issue. History will decide on the rest. So far Rossi has stated in certain terms that he has sold 13 1-MW plants since 2011. None have been verified and some proven false. 3 as recently as last year when he stated the "satisfied customer" purchased 3 more. Of course there was no customer and no sale. Now he is touting the next miracle, the "Quark". Odd that he no longer talks of the "magnificence" 1MW plant. Yet the Quark has absolutely no evidence or data showing that it exists. (Unless a blurry blue photo convinces you!)


    My thoughts are based upon Rossi's own history, not what others say. What has he done in the distant past, what has he done in the past 5 years and what is he doing now. It is based upon evidence that has been revealed, such as lies about selling 1mw plants, fake customers, fake invoices, fake engineers, robotic factories, etc. etc. It seems that one cannot trust "Rossi Says". :/

    Quote from ele

    Are you trying to suggest that "Rossi te Evil" and "Fabiani the Devil" have manipulated the aparatus ?

    Again another false argument. There was a full video record with IR cameras and data loggers of the whole experiment. There ware two cameras and two power meters always connected. Every operation was recorded. This is also clearly written in the report.

    In modern experiments DAQ systems are automatic and can be controlled remotely. So the continuous presence of the experimenter is not needed .

    Let's get that video and raw data released then! Let us suppose that you have a special connection to this situation. Why don't you ask for the data (or release it yourself)? :)


    According to Dewey on this forum, there were major issues with the setup of the plant and other matters since the start of the year long test. He has went through these issues on more than one occasion. I can't help but wish IH -- seemingly knowing at least Rossi expected that he would be paid at the end of the test -- would have told him from the start (or at least in the first few months) something similar to, "This setup with the changes you have made is unacceptable and we want to specify we will not pay you for any results stemming from this system."


    If they had clarified that early on, it may have saved everyone a lot of time and effort. Regardless if the changes were TRULY unacceptable or not, if they were unacceptable to IH because they would make the results (to them at least) untrusthworthy, something should have been said.


    I'm not implying one way or the other if their apparent lack of such communication with Andrea Rossi should impact the case at all. I'm ONLY saying if they would have communicated such a message to Rossi and announced publicly their involvement in the case was over, it would have saved all of US on the OUTSIDE a lot of needless stress and speculation. And, just maybe, some other arrangement could have been negotiated.

    Oldguy,


    This may be totally false. I could be mistaken. If so, I apologize ahead of time. But didn't Barry West (or someone else working at the Doral site) claim under deposition that it was his understanding that the results of the test could yield a payment from IH?

    Quote from THEDEBATEISUSELESS

    seemingly knowing at least Rossi expected that he would be paid at the end of the test

    Why do you keep stating this? Read the court documents. Rossi provided a letter in writing and the an actual contract was written and signed that the Doral project was a 2 year rental of a 1MW plant for the sale of heat to a real production company named JMP.


    Quote from THEDEBATEISUSELESS

    If they had clarified that early on, it may have saved everyone a lot of time and effort.

    Why do you not blame Rossi for trying to "sneak" the GPT in during this time? Why do you not say, "I wish Rossi would have written up a GPT document early on and asked IH to sign it. This would have saved everyone time and effort" ?


    There is a signed contract by both parties. It clearly states what the Doral facility is for. Now we have one party who has pretty well been proven deceptive. There was no real customer, no real production, no real chief engineer. Rossi is trying to "sneak" the GPT in to receive a payment of $89 million without it being up front, signed off on and without controversy!


    And now you are blaming IH because they did not put a stop to Rossi's shenanigan's up front? :rolleyes:


    I do not have an issue with someone questioning IH's logic on how they did something. But not to blame Rossi is crazy. To only point the finger at IH and make them the sole culprit is blind. Read Darden's report. IH acted in good faith, realizing Rossi's quirks. Yet Rossi pissed on them! And then you state that IH is responsible! :!:



    Quote from THEDEBATEISUSELESS

    if they would have communicated such a message to Rossi and announced publicly their involvement in the case was over, it would have saved all of US


    IH does not "publish" their business dealings to unknown people on some unknown blog! They owe us absolutely no information about their private dealings. Just because Rossi posts daily on his own blog, answering his own questions to himself and deleting all content he does not like, does not mean that real professional business's blog like that. IH does not even know who we are... why should they be concerned about "saving US" anything? Do you think Elon Musk in concerned about us when he is developing his batteries or cars or space ships? I do not see him blogging daily about his research projects to us! Why should IH? This is silly.


    Here is what is aggravating me....

    Quote from THEDEBATEISUSELESS

    just maybe, some other arrangement could have been negotiated.


    YES! If ROSSI had been upfront, truthful, professional, reasonable and not fraudulent, there COULD have been better arrangements! IH paid $10 million dollars! They gave Rossi every chance to produce! They gave him equipment. They gave his personnel. They gave him every reason to succeed. What did Rossi do? He faked customers, faked tests, faked engineers, faked invoices, faked everything and then files a lawsuit!


    Tell me, what should Rossi have done not IH! :/


    Edit:

    Please see this link for the info on the Doral agreement:


    Rossi vs. Darden developments - Part 2

    Quote from ele

    No.

    Everything was done openly and with the approval of the University.

    It was an activity done openly with a clear research program that have produced a tangible deliverable (the board).

    What you are writing is another example of FUD.


    "No" means that you never heard conflict of interest, like in banana republic.
    LOL, among all the possible research topics and potential people to be involved the choice was a yes to a research on pinball.

    It was a proposal from one of the most involved in Rossi's affair, a bit of ethic should suggest to anyone else it would appear as "independent and reliable tester" a different behaviour.

    • Official Post
    Quote from IH Fanboy

    So much for smart meter accuracy. According to a recent study highlighted here, they can overbill by up to 583 percent and underbill by as much as 30 percent. Seems like a possible candidate for the weirdness in the latter half of November in FPL's data.

    An industrial tragedy for the designers.

    Bandwidth is essential in designing a powermeter. Such a failure, is probably caused by cost reduction.

    Good powermeter, and their matching clamp (critical point, where the article seems to put the blame ), have a verified bandwidth, and with an oscilloscope or a bandwidth analysed you can check if your instrument is fooled by HF or VLF.

    Note that filtering power may reduce that effect, at some cost of power (few, but some).

    These smart meters tends to use gps/gsm sim cards in them to transmit data, I think it can scramble energy reports a bit. Often alarm systems use the same technology, if you break into a house on new years eve, the security company might not notice it until a day or two later, because the system get's overloaded by all the sms traffic.

    In terms of over-billing, I am surprised to hear about that study. The studies I have read shows that companies pays for and install smart meters to avoid over billing. It's their nr 1 benefit for the user. (Companies budget and reporting is heavily affected by over-billing by energy companies) But yeah, over-billing happens, if you are an energy company, over-billing is awesome, you can make a few millions extra per year collecting interest.

    There could also have been some kind of redundancy system to charge batteries in case of power outage, while it's unlikely companies have such solutions it would not be a huge surprise if Rossi actually had a battery-farm. After all we do know the guy is eccentric.


    Quote from IH Fanboy

    IH will claim that Rossi's patents are invalid (oh wait, they already have). Then, when me356 provides his information more openly and/or when BLP introduces their first complete prototype to the public, IH will once again claim to be working with NiH systems, while proceeding with their own patent filings, partnering with a manufacturer, and eventually introducing their own IH-cat.

    It makes no difference what they do, or what they claim. They can "claim" this or that until the cows come home. It will not help them. If the technology works, it will become generally known that Rossi invented it. There is a paper trail proving this. At that point, Rossi will be able to sue I.H. for any amount of money, with 100% assurance he will win. In a patent lawsuit, nobody cares what you say or claim. They only look at the facts. These are not trials by jury. The judge decides, and the judge is an expert in patents.


    There is no strategy I.H. could employ, and nothing that I.H. could do to win, if Rossi's technology really does work.

    Quote from LFH Sam

    In March 2016 a follow up meeting of LENR India was held at the National Institute of Advanced studies in Bangalore. At that meeting almost a dozen institutes and universities agreed to initiate CF research.

    No, they did not agree to initiate research. They agreed they would like to. But they did not get funded, and no research has been initiated. Perhaps it may be in the future, and perhaps this meeting helped, but so far there is no research.


    As I said, if there were any research, I would know about it, and I would tell you. I am not trying to keep people from finding out about research. Why would I do that?

    Quote from IH Fanboy

    So much for smart meter accuracy. According to a recent study highlighted here, they can overbill by up to 583 percent and underbill by as much as 30 percent.

    The City of Atlanta and DeKalb county are having huge problems with electronic smart water meters. They sometimes produce flow rates 10 times off. It has been in the news for months. People are getting bills for $6000 which should be a few hundred dollars. See:


    http://www.cbs46.com/story/330…illing-issues-on-facebook


    The electronic meter they installed at my house doubled my water bill. However, after some testing I reluctantly determined that it is right, and the old one was wrong. The old one was off by a factor of 2 or 3. The electronic meter technology is fundamentally good, but it needs teething, checking, and field experience to make it work. The County sent one of their people to check mine, for which they charge $50. I was impressed by his knowledge and techniques.


    (By the way, my guess is that my old meter was clogged up.)


    This is one of the reasons I think Peter Gluck has gone off the deep end when he insists that water meters are reliable and we can be sure Rossi's meter worked, and it could not have been off by a factor of 4. Oh yes it could! I expect Rossi deliberately set it up incorrectly, but I have managed to make mistakes on that scale by accident, and DeKalb county has made mistakes on this scale hundreds of times.


    Defkalion found a way to cut the flow to zero and still have the meter register a large flow. When you deliberately set out to sabotage a test, you can find all kinds of ways to do it. Still, nature will find more ways to give the wrong answer than you do.


    Any instrument can be wrong. ANY instrument. That is why, for example, Air France Flt. 447 flew into the ocean. Pitot tubes are highly reliable flow meters, but they sometimes fail, and that is what caused the accident.

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