Rossi vs. Darden developments [CASE CLOSED]

  • @Shane D.


    I agree with most of what you wrote about IH's incentives to win at all costs. Unfortunately, that is the world we live in, and it doesn't help the peanut gallery much with respect to determining what actually happened.


    I also agree that if Rossi set up the JMP as a big ruse, it is just as slimy.


    And with all this slime, it is time for me to go take a shower.

  • I read the whole foo, but not a lot stuck in my mind.

    Since negotiations started with Cherokee they should know lots as a corporation, at least up to the founding of IH.

    But IHP as an IP holding company justifiably knows nothing about what went on technically with IH, so their answers "IHP knows nothing more than IH" is legitimate (IMHO,IANAL, of course).

    Whether Darden can duck out of the formal Cherokee deposition is another matter : Fogelman should have been full briefed on everything up and until the agreement was signed with IH. And I presume Darden was deposed in his personal capacity : but he may well have answerered 'Cherokee did this' or "IHP did that'. So far we're seeing only the tip of the iceberg / or floes that have calved from it.


    But there's nothing technical in all this ... so it's all just lawyerly gamesmanship.


    Edit : changed 'he' to 'Darden'

  • @Alan F


    I think the tactic of "nobody knows anything" will come back to hurt IH at trial. The IH lawyers can write a killer brief, but if nobody can back it up with any personal knowledge of the events, then how is Rossi's team supposed to prepare for trial? IH might have all kinds of plans for withholding and then introducing evidence at the last moment during trial, but judges don't take kindly to those strategies.

  • Sorry, I'm busy showering off all of the slime. I might be able to respond later.


    Here's a suggestion: take off your slimy glasses. You'll be amazed at how much cleaner you feel. ;)


    In all seriousness, I think you and many other's here see phantom slime.


    You cite as proof of slime that IH passed the buck to IPH. That's actually not supported by the evidence. The question that Vaughn couldn't recall was regarding how payments that IH were reimbursed by IPH. Vaughn states that he can't remember, Fogelman did that.


    But we don't have ANY evidence in the exhibits that Fogelman passed the buck regarding IH reimbursement back to IH (or nonsensically to Cherokee).


    See, the exhibits don't have the whole depositions. You can bet your last dollar that had Fogelman passed the buck on that issue (regarding payments), it would be a gift to Rossi's lawyers - they could scream bloody murder to the Judge and likely get sanctions with that. But they don't. Remember that sanctions are serious, and you need your best case if you expect to win.


    The IPH 'non-answers' that Rossi's team provides in their exhibits to complain to the judge about have nothing to do with paying bills. According to Vaughn, Fogelman paid the bills. So we can safely assume that all those questions that Vaughn couldn't answer were in fact answered by Fogelman. In this case, absence of evidence IS proof. It's proof that either 1) Fogelman answered Rossi's lawyers about payments or 2) Rossi's lawyers are incompetent and at risk of malpractice for not representing their client more competently when they forgot to claim that Fogelman didn't answer their questions about payments.


    So, you have no credible evidence that there was a shell game going on here.


    In fact, we have evidence from IPH's objections (which, BTW were filed on Feb 9 prior to the Feb 13-15 depositions) that IPH would not provide needlessly redundant depositions. And we have Rossi's selective bits of evidence which confirm that IPH carried through according to those objections, and further, contain no examples where for any given topic, a "shell game" prevented Rossi's team from obtaining the information they sought. They just didn't get It from the entities they thought they had a right to get it from.


    Maybe they do have a legal right to have IPH provide that information. I don't know. I am extremely doubtful that they will get any information that differs from IH.


    Or, alternatively, keep running from that phantom slime.<X

  • I think the tactic of "nobody knows anything" will come back to hurt IH at trial.


    Except that's not what happened. It's "IH knows everything." Which can't "come back to hurt IH at trial"


    I'll repeat it again: Rossi's lawyers have NOT complained about IH's deposition.


    Do you think that if they thought IH (the corporation) was not forthcoming in their deposition, they would not have included that in their Motion for Sanctions?

  • IH's deposition (from Vaughn) has the real stuff - which we are not allowed to see - e.g. pp 30-59 of IH deposition, all deleted.


    Nothing slimey from IH here.


    Rossi is fishing, and hoping to catch somone out, or else just to annoy, deposing entities that won't have anything extra to add (IHP). IMHO expecting to get more from this duplicative questioning is ridiculous, but I guess we will find out whether the Judge agrees.


    Rossi is following his unpleasant "they are all out to get me and I'll manipulate PR via sock puppets, bogus legal action, or whatever else, to get people to believe it" meme.


    Slimey? Perhaps...


    Pretty stupid, certainly. But one thing all can agree, Rossi does not behave in a wholly rational manner.

  • @sig


    I think what bothers me the most is that Darden is dodging, or at least seems to be. Some of you have suggested Darden was deposed personally (as an individual not as a representative of one of the entities). I don't think we have yet seen that evidence, but it seems likely it would have happened. But if he was deposed personally, I can almost bet you a bottom dollar that he attempted to pass the buck.

  • @sig


    I think what bothers me the most is that Darden is dodging, or at least seems to be. Some of you have suggested Darden was deposed personally (as an individual not as a representative of one of the entities). I don't think we have yet seen that evidence, but it seems likely it would have happened. But if he was deposed personally, I can almost bet you a bottom dollar that he attempted to pass the buck.


    See Abd's quotes from legal advice http://coldfusioncommunity.net/how-crazy-can-it-get/#Update2. Darden is only doing what his lawyers advise. IHFB, would you do something different? If so, you are unwise...

  • I think what bothers me the most is that Darden is dodging, or at least seems to be.


    I get that. I strongly believe he has been deposed. Regarding Corporations, he used a Limited Liability Corporation for a reason - to limit liability.


    Rossi does the same with Leonardo, Fabiani with USQL LLC


    If this goes to trial, Darden will be called to testify.

  • I've said that it was wonderfully orchestrated. But it is terrible for the LENR community. Because we just want to know what happened and what is happening. IH seems to be hiding the ball.


    Blame Rossi for an obviously stupid legal action. Once you escalate in that way every (rational) person has to pay and obey the lawyers.

  • Remember, legally Darden, IH,IHP, and Cherokee are all independent separate entities even if they are all run by Darden. Rossi is fishing for contradictory answers he can use in the trial. This is all a standard part of this type of trial. Fishing is one of lawyers favorite pastimes. Especially if they think it will add to total payout in a judgement or settlement. I.e. Legal fees.


    Edited for spelling and clarity.

    • Official Post

    Ladys and Gentleman, this is a thread were we all have the opportunity to discuss about the lawsuit Rossi et.al vs. Darden et.al.

    If you want to discuss about tech papers, manuals, contrary technical information, conspiracy theories and so on, feel free to do it, but please open an new thread and use a link if you want a connection to this court case. Thank you!

  • this was shown live by MFMP to be much higher

    1) You don't need MFMP to know allumina band Emissivity

    2) What they measured was total emissivity and if they not used pure Alumina then what they measured have nothing to do with Lugano

    3) In one of their experiments they are trying to measure the emissivity of a body that was in an oven. Because the oven is a cavity is natural that the emissivity of any material result very near to the black body emissivity.


    And BTW the argument of emissivity factors cancelling is true and your is disinformation.

    Is not a coincidence that after a long time of silence you came out now with that.

  • Rossi is fishing for contradictory answers he can use in the trial.

    I believe that Rossi's and his lawyers intention is to discover during this depositions irregularities in the business conduct of IH / IHP / Cherokee etc, which might hurt the management of those companies when such information becomes public.

    (For example: Over-optimistic promises made - against better knowledge - to potential investors of IH / IHP;
    conflict of interests between the businesses...)


    And I guess Rossi hopes that with this strategy (when he is on track to find some irregularities/"dirt") he can force an out of court settlement.

    A settlement, which allows Rossi to keep all payments he received from so far from IH, would surely be a win situation for him - and would allow him to keep the e-cat farce going...

    Time will tell whether Rossi's strategy will bear fruit or not.

  • to find some irregularities/"dirt"

    Reading carefully the documentation published I think that now I can have a much more precise idea of what the real contribution of IH and Mr. Darden to the LENR community:

    1) First of all they collected about 100 M$ saying to their investors that they bought the IP of Rossi and showing them the 1MW plant during the one year test. No problem with the test was risen about the test and even about Lugano or any other test in this phase.


    2) Seems that 100 M$ has disappeared (no trace in documents) and so IH decided not to pay Rossi (losing the IP) and IH told the investors thet it has substituted the Rossi technology with others.


    3) this others technologies (reading the papers) seems to have much lower results the the one from Rossi or even may be in conflict with the Rossi patent, so they have almost no commercial value but IH investors have been told they they are a gold mine.


    4) The new technologies inventors (Piantelli at al. ) have not been paid with real money but with shares of IH or other "empty boxes".


    5) Darden is paying (with real money) actors on the web (Weaver/Sigmoidal, J.Rothwell and others) in order to influence the trial.


    Not a nice scenario ! I presume that part of this activity is illegal.

  • Not that it ever had anything useful to work with but it is now clear that Planet Rossi has lost its collective mind. Only there can being defrauded of $20M+ be considered slime. Only there can trial influence be considered even possible - who do you think you are? Only there can settlement be mentioned after all the problems caused by Rossi. Only there can dependent actors be considered real and real independent people be classified as paid actors. Only there can the massive deceptions of Lugano and Doral be considered problem-free. Only there can alumina Pyro-Paint be used but not mentioned to "testing" professors. So many disconnects from reality. So many deceptions but guess what - time has run out and the gig us up.


    Bad news for Planet Rossi - the undeniable truth is upon you and justice is about to be served. No desperate misguided legal diving catch attempts are going to save you. Rossi and his cohorts are going to have to pay the price for what they have done.