.......then we are in outlandish literalist land...............
Rich coming from you.
The pipe IS...... when asking a question
Rossi vs. Darden developments [CASE CLOSED]
- barty
- Closed
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Only a few more months of data and the Fabulous data will be in.
Looking forward to the ERV vs 236-43 COP plot.
I wonder.... which will match FLP or reported kWh best?
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Plus I happen to know the actual flow rate was much lower than the flow meter indicated.
Happy Easter to everybody!
Jed you have never been there. how can you know this "crucial information". If what you are affirming is real then you must run to the court and bear witness under oath.
If is not you are behaving like a mythomaniac who need to give "great news" just to attract attention.
It is like making sausage; you don't want to know.
I had made sausages and written manuals. Is not the same think. Sausages are tastier but manuals are more informative.
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Including probably most of the Jurors.
Yeah probably.
I'm really worry about what is done here. I see a number of assumptions and preconceptions are taken as real facts.
Are you able to imagine that there is the possibility that Rossi is not faking and is right ?
He hast started the trial. Now if he was faking why not just take the 11M$ and disappear ?
And we should remember that IH has taken a huge amount of money from investors and everything was ok in that time.
Don't you think that most of what is written here can be seen as jury poisoning attempt ?
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I think this is a central enough issue that it makes sense for the community to crowd fund and test the maximum pump rate, at no back pressure, of the very pump in question. And we can even set up a bet on a prediction market as to who is right: the name plate or the manual.
IHFB: Rossi's system is so far out of spec - he really does not care about manuals - that it is a pain getting precise numbers out of his stuff. Much of his stuff, including I think this pump, is being run outside rated temp range. That normally just reduces lifetime, but in theory means none of the pump specification can be relied upon.
In the case of the pump - I'd take up a reasonable bet. Not sure how you'd find the pump. The plate value is 32l/h specified at 2 bar pressure, or 36l/h specified at 1 bar. At 0 bar you'd expect something between 36 l/h and (max) 40 l/h. (There are corrections of < 1l/h if you look up the exact values, which I'm not now remembering). I'd mildly expect the 40l/h value, correct if the graph of flow rate vs pressure were linear, but a lower value would be likely if at pressures close to rated maximum nonlinearity started to bite.
The vague statement about possible multiples of rate in the manual would relate to low (below max) delivery rates.
Ironically, because Rossi's systems are such rubbish, the easiest way to make definite predictions is from the thing Rossi did not control and did not think about: heat dissipation. His second floor heat exchanger is a joke, and if real would in any case not dissipate anything like 1MW. For reasons that have been stated here many times. It is a sign of bias that you treat every single uncertainty here as though it proves a case, when all we need is one of these killer points to be valid, and let us face it all of them look strong, a few look absolutely iron-clad.
I'm not sure why you consider the pump to be a central issue. It is almost entirely insignificant. Error modes exist for the Penon data whatever is the pump max flowrate, since the actual flowrate can be much smaller, as Jed points out. The Penon data must be in error because of the dissipation issue.
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"We recieved from your plant the amount of energy of" etc....
This is not undercharging.
In the cases of the requests I posted, it is an outright lie.
Not only are the figures wrong and a lie, it is proof positive of scamming by just writing the invoices from the fake customer!
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I'm really worry about what is done here. I see a number of assumptions and preconceptions are taken as real facts.
Are you able to imagine that there is the possibility that Rossi is not faking and is right ?
It is about as likely as a guy who has a history of running scams discovering something of such an amazing magnitude that it has never been done before and would change the world.
He hast started the trial. Now if he was faking why not just take the 11M$ and disappear ?
It's kind of like the game shows where you can keep your $100K, or keep playing for the $1M and lose it all. It seems he probably should have stopped playing.
Don't you think that most of what is written here can be seen as jury poisoning attempt ?
Nah. This is a very small amount of people here. It would be very easy to find people who know nothing of AR or the ecat.
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It's kind of like the game shows where you can keep your $100K, or keep playing for the $1M and lose it all. It seems he probably should have stopped playing.
It is a fascinating question why Rossi does Rossi stuff - and this is as good an answer as any.
You might add the power of public opinion. Rossi seems to care about his fans much more than most people, and more than other free-energy vapourware. His devotion to JONP is a real phenomenon, as are the sock-puppets where he talks to himself.
So I think he over-estimates the importance of public opinion, and also probably does not have much handle on what it could be - his audience of choice is very very selected.
He may well believe a Jury will be swayed by his magnificence.
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.... It would be very easy to find people who know nothing of AR or the ecat.
Even in here.
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It's kind of like the game shows where you can keep your $100K, or keep playing for the $1M and lose it all. It seems he probably should have stopped playing.
More - it is like the game where you can keep your $100K and hide forever; or keep it on, not only playing for the $1M, but also for not live hidden for the rest of your life, having to look at your back for people ready to break your legs...
No, he could not have stopped playing - and it will be never convenient for him to stop. Even after his death there will be people keeping on the game for same reason.
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I think a connection between USQL and Rossi is reasonable. Is the US not a free country in which business connections of common interest can have inter-relationships? Is this really a crime in your mind?
The (previous) connection between USQL and the Florida Energy Trust (linked to Rossi) is well known and can be found when you look at the annual reports from USQL - links at the bottom of this website.
http://search.sunbiz.org/Inqui…ANTUMLEAP%20L130001198320
Untill 2015 the Florida Energy Trust was listed as a Managing Member of USQL, and then droped (not anymore listed in the 2016 annual report).
BTW, another business connection between Leonardo Corp and USQL:
According to the Leonardo Corp (Miami) Tax filing for 2014 (Doc 236-14 page36), USQL took a loan from Leonardo Corp for $35 000.
However, this 35 000$ were probably just "peanuts" for USQL, since at the same year USQL could afford to sponsor Levi's pinball thesis activities with 35 000 €.
See reference (7) and (8) from the "Citazione" here:
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The (previous) connection between USQL and the Florida Energy Trust (linked to Rossi) is well known and can be found when you look at the annual reports from USQL - links at the bottom of this website.
http://search.sunbiz.org/Inqui…ANTUMLEAP%20L130001198320
Untill 2015 the Florida Energy Trust was listed as a Managing Member of USQL, and then droped (not anymore listed in the 2016 annual report).
BTW, another business connection between Leonardo Corp and USQL:
According to the Leonardo Corp (Miami) Tax filing for 2014 (Doc 236-14 page36), USQL took a loan from Leonardo Corp for $35 000.
However, this 35 000$ were probably just "peanuts" for USQL, since at the same year USQL could afford to sponsor Levi's pinball thesis activities with (just coincidently) roughly the same amount.
See reference (7) and (8) from the "Citazione" here:
Abd has done some excellent work here on CFC. What is interesting is how the links between Leonardo and USQL suddenly stop at the end of the test, when we know from other evidence (Fabione deposition) that Fabione angered Rossi by (Rossi thought) providing too much information to IH about the test. It is a little vignette, seen at some distance through these corporate changes, that illustrates the nastiness of Rossi in business relationships even to loyal long-term workers.
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Abd has done some excellent work here on CFC.
BTW: Did anybody spot the - allegedly - 10 mio $ payment from IH in one of Leonardo's tax filings?
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BTW: Did anybody spot the - allegedly - 10 mio $ payment from IH in one of Leonardo's tax filings?
Abd's view from the above link (I have not looked at sources)
QuoteFirst of all, Florida Energy Trust (FET) was reported as 100% owner of Leonardo Corporation for 2012. What Leonardo Corporation? The EIN is 90- 0780933. The address of the corporation is c/o Andrea Rossi, 1331 Lincoln Road, Unit 601, Miami Beach FL 33139. We know there was a $1.5 million payment to LC (NH, from the Agreement) in 2012. This is greater than the entire income of the Leonardo reporting. The return is signed by Travis, the New Hampshire accountant.
The 2013 LC return shows the same EIN, address, and FET ownership. We know there was a payment of $10 million to LC (NH?) in 2013. This is, again, much more than the entire income reported for this Leonardo. (The original return apparently claimed about $3 million in income. The amendment reduces this to less than $1 million.) There is also a deduction for “Florida taxes.” This is not conclusive but indicates a Florida corporation.
I conclude that this return is for Leonardo Florida, in spite of the accountant being in New Hampshire, and that the IH payments went into Leonardo NH. Rossi simply continued to use the same accountant for 2012.
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What is interesting is how the links between Leonardo and USQL suddenly stop at the end of the test, when we know from other evidence (Fabione deposition) that Fabione angered Rossi by (Rossi thought) providing too much information to IH about the test.
Fabiani provided (or better promised) not "too much information" but all that is necessary to replicate the system without Rossi directly to to JT Vaughn and Thomas Darden.Quote"Then I will work on my official report to bring to light all the flaws and functional deficiencies of the system in order to have sufficient information to replicate a system with lower costs and with greater reliability."
And at the same time he applied for a new contract, which suggests that at least Fabiani was sure that the system works and he can even optimize it for IH.
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No, that is impossible. As Smith pointed out, nothing would flow if that were true. The reservoir had to be at 1 atm because it was open to air, as anyone can tell by looking at it. Again, you make a grade-school level mistake.
The evidence is visible, as I just said. The reservoir is open to the air etc..
I was busy with translating a PdD high temperature material
especially interesting so I am surprised that Smith's fatal errors were not eradicated till now here - and this is very simple.
He invokes sacro-saint thermodynamics in vain.
As I have shown in an editorial, Smith's leading idea is to drown the ERV report and to drown it in a small quantity of water.
What actually happened is the following: the e-Cats have generated steam (with the parameters from the Report) this was condensed and cooled at the JMP Plant (we still have to know exactly how, but it is not an imossible task) and recirculated to the reservoir about which Jed speaks here. Underway water goes through the Flowmeter- which clearly definitely is full with water and works well.
It is atmospheric pressure steam going to JMP due to condensation there in the pipe the pressure is smaller than atmospheric then it is recirculated and its pressure at the entrance in the flowmeter must be greater than 1,3 times the atmospheric - see the lnstructios from the manufacturer.
It is NO connection between the pressure of the steam and the pressure in the pressure in the reservoir.
More than probably there was a recirculation pump the flowmeter needs a 3m plus column of water to work..
So Smith's first wise thesis is absolutely false.
Second thesis- if at 103-104 C and atmospheric pressure it was steam than we will deny. deny shamelessly that it was atmospheric pressure, simple tactic-- just fraudulent.
In the pipe at JMP it is suction- negative pressure due to condensation steam of 0.6 kg/cu.m converted in water at 1000 kg/cu.m.
Third Smith thesis insufficient pump flow- actually at 9.2 bars used the flow of the pumps was 80liters per hour. Just a dirty trick as the other two
The Italian language has a very expressive word for "it was quite enough"- BASTA! I hope the honest people here will acceept this- Smith has launched some misinformations
and calumnies however these three so called thermodynamics teachings are bsolutely baseless.
Birds of one feather flock together- se what impossibility claims the author of the Smithoniad:
"I happen to know the actual flow rate was much lower than the flow meter indicated:
How could this been stated during a visit in a plant?
Should we believe in clairvoyance? An unbelievable fairy tale.
Assez! sounds also well- please throw Smith to the grabage bin where he belongs and show respect for your colleagues
pro-Rossi or against him they are not sooo... stupid.
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Bass did not say it was reduced. Smith said it might have been reduced. And if you think the diameter of the pipe was reduced, then I have a bridge to sell you. There would be no reason to, and only reasons to expand it to, for example, DN150.
But the fact remains that Rossi destroyed the evidence so by law the court should interpret it in the most favorable light to the defendant not to the plaintiff.
If both Bass and Smith are equally correct (even if Smith only saw things a year afterwards when things were changed and removed) then it must have been reduced from 4.5 to 3 or 4. We just do not know.
Seeing dust on the floor, workers at the windows, measuring pipes after most are removed a year lator is not very reliable evidence of things. Bass was closer in time to the events than Smith. We know that pipes were altered (at least removed) before Smith saw things. His observations were not of the system used.
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Have any of you guys read your comments kind of more entertaining than following Rossi trial
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It's kind of like the game shows where you can keep your $100K, or keep playing for the $1M and lose it all. It seems he probably should have stopped playing.Jed said earlier he expected Rossi to take the money and run.
I suspect that Rossi was banking on IH agreeing some kind of settlement so he can get away scott free.
Possibly he is delusional enough to actually believe the money is rightfully his, but not delusional enough to give a demo of his QuarkX.
In either case this is a risky strategy because having spent money on all the lawyer time to sift through Rossi's case it would seem IH have done most of the work needed for their own case against Rossi. Maybe this is why Rossi is reluctant to furnish evidence.
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I definitely think there is a calculation going on with AR here. Perhaps he believed that IH must be embarrassed by all of this and just wanted it all to go away. Add to that Woodford Funds investment, which was backed by UK pension money. When it was discovered that Woodford had invested in IH, and through extension AR, you could see comments on their site from some of their investors who were not too pleased. Maybe AR thought if he could get a quiet settlement of another $10MM or so, the other side would just write the check and he would have that much more cash to enjoy life. But Darden seems ready to fight this to the end.
There is a post on ECW about what will a jury think. 90% of what is posted here would sail right over a typical jury. But one thing won't. JMP is AR. He represented many times that JMP was an independent customer/entity that was using the heat for its business. It's in writing. Just look at JONP for several times where he said it. So this is a lie and can be proven so. What I have learned from all of this is you can make a lot of things fuzzy to distort the truth - pipe sizes, steam flows, heat exchangers, missing windows. It could go on forever. But you can't make a 3rd party customer fuzzy. It either exists or it doesn't. And in this case it doesn't. AR misrepresented this to orchestrate a huge payday for himself. I think the odds are that a jury will see the fake customer as fraud, and Tom Darden knows it.
