Rossi vs. Darden developments [CASE CLOSED]

Quote from Bob

In the meantime, Rossi is to be considered the "only commercial LENR option"?

You can cry inanity all you want, but it is statements like this that reveal what kind of person you are. Where did you get those quotes? Are you pretending to quote me?

Quote from damn_right_yes

So, I have been following quite "quiet" until now.

This forum can even create a pt. 3 of Rossi vs. Darden development, it will be as useless as this.

The major posts are nonsense argumentations for "my opinion is right, tell me, why Your should be more right".

Kindergarten.

I really loose interest in this. Especially, because no one realized, that the picture of the location of the flow-meter and water probe is exactly that kind of scam, which we have been seeing all the time until now.

DRY,

I suggest you return to hibernation mode.

Because using words like "nonsense argumentations" and "Kindergarten", but, and i am using these metaphors because it seems like they appeal to you, then joining the circle of toddlers and chanting "twinkle, twinkle little star" with them, does not impress.

Cheers,

JB

Quote from JedRothwell

No. On the contrary, Murray's deposition revealed many more problems with the flow meter than we have discussed here. Not only was the pipe half full, but the meter was installed incorrectly in various other ways, without the required hardware, and the flow rate was far below the minimum. The corrosion in the meter confirmed that the pipe was half full and tests showed that the meter was wildly wrong in that condition.

Also, as Penon's schematic shows, the meter was in the return line, where you insisted again and again it could not be. Do you still say that? Do you not believe Penon and Rossi?

Jed

It is not possible to build even small islands of rationality and

logic here you are programmed to calumniate the plant first of all the instruments.

Can you enumerate what faults have fpound now Murray with theFlowmeter, really?

Why do you need to find MORE faults? This is typical-

Dewey told the flowmeter is incorrect in 5 respects but Dewey was debunked by Vaughn as unable to confront a mastermaind of manipulation as Rossi. You, despite you omni-science was een not mentioned.

The flowmeter is installed NOT in a free-falling gravity pipe but it is fed by a pump, you know the sine qua non condition

of minimum 0.3 bars more at inlet than at outlet; and it is in a horizontal pipe with a small ascendent pipe after he outletthat is it was full and measuring the real flow. HOW is Murray contradicting this?

He has abandoned his story withe rust traces, you have not abandoned you own story with people visiting the plant and telling you the flowmeter shows flow 4 times more fow than the reall one. (oocult phenomenon, clairvoyance)

The flowmeter is innocent and was full with water, finita la storia.

peter

Out of Dock 215:

What kind of person is Murray? Murray worked for the deep state industrial sector, mainly on weapons testing. He mentioned testing heat impact (laser warming) of torpedoes. He earned 30k$/month of taxpayers money, what seemed to be the main reason he stoped his phd work about heat conduction.

He certainly has the knowledge to run a team to test an E-cat like machine, but real physics seems to be far away since a long time.

During the testimony Anesser (a brilliant advocate) asked him two different times, “what is the definition of COP” and Murray failed both times to explain it correctly in one sentence...

Murray knew Dewey since more than ten years and thereof all the other investors (Darden, Vaughan..), what tells us the the whole IH-gang has deep connections into the military business. Murray was never hired by IH, what now is a high processual risk (I explain later). Murray was never introduced to Rossi and even more IH did hide Murray.

Murrays famous visiting report that IH leaked to Jed Rothwell has been taken on the last symbolic operating day of the E-cat. The E-cat just did run for ½ of an hour – thus there was no heat in the Doral location.

Prior to the visit, according to Murray's deposition, he has been instructed by Darden – already in June 2015 – that Rossi is a kind of fraudsters and that one of his (Murrays) task is to debunk the Doral installation.

One of Murrays main tasks was to order 4 flow meters from Poland and to invent the low flow -meter story with a half full pipe. After Anesser showed him all the factory plans Penon sent to IH, clearly stating where the flowmeter was located and also the various thermo-couplers Murray desperately insisted, at least three times, that the flowmeter has been operated out of specs.

Then he got the final hit by Anesser, who showed him a writeup from a certification company that clearly shows the meter error at the “low” 1.5m3/hour is only 0.3% off specs, still within the tolerance...

Of course Murray also had to confess that he is the inventor of the DN40 story.

The absolute highlight was his confession that he produced (using more than three weeks of paid labor..) a video, that shows that the Doral location only can get rid of about 100kW/hour. He used complicated (in fact excellent) software, to solve a problem, where a simple lookup into to some tables would have been sufficient. He assumed all doors closed, no ventilation..., If we consult a simple WWW calculator, then, after 5 minutes, we know that the whole building, even without ventilation, can dissipate about 200kW by heat conduction, not even needing an open door...

After Murrays deposition it is clear that IH (from June 2015) wanted to sue Rossi or just expected Rossi would sue them.

Because Murray was not an employee of IH, he cannot deny to talk before a jury. He can only refuse to answer a question, when he can present a NDA, which shows the exact specific requirement, what is highly unlikely! Everything Murray invented has dissolved into vapor, thus it is understandable that IH now is forced to desperate actions, like the new spoliation of evidence suit.

What is wrong with the E-cat test?

Of course, it is impossible to dissipate 1 MW without heavy ventilation or partially releasing steam. The later can be excluded because “no” (few) water has been used from the Florida water supply. To condense steam you need a sufficiently high temperature difference, lets assume the 30 degrees we see between the two reservoirs(100--> 70). If AR used a heat exchanger steam--> water – inside the long black box – then, as already discussed, a high airflow or a large passive surface is needed to bring the water temperature from 100C down to 70C. The average yearly Temp. of Miami is 23C, thus the average delta T is 62C. Heating air by 20C brings away about 25kw/m3. To move one m3 air you need about 80watts (between 60 and 100 depending on construction). To move 10m3 air out of the cargo door (8m2) you need a wind speed of about 1.2m/s what is very low. Also for 750MW (whole August!) the wind speed (cargo door) is just a moderate 3.6m/s. The airspeed through the roof and the office window(s) must be 2-3 times higher. (Don't forget that at least 120kW – to 220kW, go away by heat conduction. Ask the only left neighbor about his air-condition during summer time!)

Thus we can conclude: Everything depends on the effective design of the heat exchangers.

The AR caveats must be found somewhere else. Why does the COP go up in summertime? With a smaller delta T for cooling? Why does the COP go down, when the steam flow rate is going down? Why did he not use a correct steam/pressure sensor? Or is there a simple answer like: At an internal pressure of 0.2..0.5 bar the sensor will work correctly?

As Murray stated: There were 64 reactors in the Big Frankie's coupled with 51 of the smaller reactors. ( what clears the water-pump FUD) May be AR had to do a lot of load balancing and many Tiger modules faced a premature out and the low efficiency modules had to take over again.

Why did nobody in IH try to improve the 1MW design prior to the test?

Quote from Wyttenbach

The absolute highlight was his confession that he produced (using more than three weeks of paid labor..) a video, that shows that the Doral location only can get rid of about 100kW/hour. He used complicated(in fact excellent) software, to solve a problem,

Then he basically claimed that "the dog ate my homework" when asked to produce said convection simulation.

Out of Dock 215:

Conclusion:

All the FUD (DN40, wrong flow-meter, wrong T-coupler, uncorrelated current uses versus COP etc..) presented in this forum has been nullified by Murray's deposition/interrogation. IH is now desperately locking for a last resort, as the spoliation effort, with bringing in Murray, completely failed.

AR must be a genius in deception, if he can fool a whole bunch of Zoo animal hunters, with feeding them ready to shoot pet animals.

To date, about 900MB of produced evidence are in the Dock! And still IH doesn't know, if they will pay for steam that never did flow...

Finally we learn that IH – according Murray – never was able to reproduce any known LENR protocol, even the simple one provided by Mizuno ...(they mention five others..)

Thus I can only recommend, to all researchers, to stay far- far away of IH and the other two dozen stealth companies ruled by Cherokee/IH. They have only one goal, disrupt LENR research by consuming your time.

Thus only one last thing: The Li-H LENR effect recently has been decoded. There is absolutely no reason to stop any NiLiH LENR research! Just don't listen to frustrated hobbyists, telling you they never found any COP > 1. Even Parkhomow is now at COP 2.4!

we_cat_global

I accept that your take on this drama is genuine.

It is not possible for anyone to absorb all the information (which is incomplete in any case). So we pick and mix.

Even then we use our "judgment" to give more weight to some information and less to others and often badly get this wrong.

Our prejudices lead us astray.

For many on here it is the technical arguments are the surest path to a correct decision.

But even here there are arguments on both sides, I would bet that you prefer the Engineer48 interpretation over THHuxleynew.

Rossi fails for me on the reputation test. He cannot be trusted so why would I believe him when he says he has this amazing invention?

I think your criticisms of IH are highly interpreted by you.

Darden is silent - so that must mean he is guilty.

Weasel tactics - well if you are dragged into a court case then you use tactics to win a court case, being open and honest is no likely to be a sensible strategy as stuff gets twisted in court.

As to the money arguments I would echo your own logic back to you - IH are behaving as they are supposed to, they are Venture Capitalists. We know they are in it for the money, but that does not mean they do not have other motives but we cannot be sure about those.

But here is the big argument against your post, and this has been stated before.

It does not matter what IH do. It does not matter if they are evil and eat babies.

Stop trying to shift the focus. This is all about Rossi.

He is secretive, manipulative and dishonest - all of this is true and unarguable.

What he says cannot be trusted, so actions are needed.

So it is even more imperative that he has to prove his Ecat exists and he has failed to do that in a conclusive way and IMHO he never will.

He will in fact do anything (court case, theory papers, lots of claims on JONR) other than actually prove that has anything.

So we_cat_global why does he not do this and when do you expect he will?

Quote from THEDEBATEISUSELESS

There is so much we don't know about this technology,

BTW we have at least three technologies:

"Low" temp ECAT to produce steam (Doral). With mixture and stimulating (Magnetic ?, HV ?) not disclosed

"High" Temp Ecat with mixtures analyzed (Ni+LiAlH4)) stimolus via magnetic field and temperature

Ecat X. High Temp, (Ni+LiAlH4) ? Probably stimulated via HV ?

Is quite obvious that who knows do not disclose........ apart from MFMP but do they know anything ?

Quote from ZenoOfElea

Rossi fails for me on the reputation test.

Quote from ZenoOfElea

He is secretive, manipulative and dishonest - all of this is true and unarguable.

Stop insulting and come on with arguments.

Being secretive is normal in any serious industry.

Ferrari will never tell around how they engines are build, nor will Apple tell competitors about it'plans for the next Iphone 8s.

So what's your point ?

Quote from joshg

I don't think this is correct. Rossi's initial complaint was filed on April 5, 2016. The test finished up in late February, and he has testified that he dismantled the heat exchanger soon after the test was completed. So he had a little over a month to dismantle the exchanger before IH failed to pay and well over a month before the lawsuit was filed. You could make an argument that dismantling without documenting its existence was stupid, but I don't think you can say it was destruction of evidence since there was no legal filing at that point.

Good point. Before the lawsuit was filed, Rossi was perfectly entitled to make changes to the Plant and to move tubes from side to side. Those objects were not evidences at that time, so it makes no sense speak about spoliation.

Quote from Rends

Darden et al. were never interested in working with Rossi as an industrial partner, they wanted to get his IP and, above all, the formula for his fuel as quickly and cheaply as possible and then award licenses to other contract partners from the big industry and thereby become dizzying rich.

This is evident from the fact that IH didn't check on IP value. As Vaughn himself admits, initially IH had not competent engineers, yet they extolled the virtues of Rossi's technology to investors.

Out of Dock 215:

Murray (A) confessed that the smart-meter used at the Doral building has broken during the test. Anesser didn't check what that means and answered. We don't see it on the bill. The number still is the same.

Case 1:16-cv-21199-CMA Document 215-3 Entered on FLSD Docket 03/23/2017 423 Page 257 of

Q.· · Do regulated Florida utilities ever have no information other than the data in the subpoena by Florida Power and So you have no reason to believe that

·device malfunctions? · · · A.· · Oh, absolutely.· Absolutely.· In fact, I ·believe in this facility they actually replaced a smart ·meter at some point earlier in the year. · · · Q.· · Why do you believe that? · · · A.· · Because the registration number of the meter ·in the subpoenaed data changed. · · · Q.· · When was that? · · · A.· · I don't recall.· It was earlier in the year. ·I would say sometime maybe in the May or June time ·frame. · · · Q.· · Okay.· Do you know if it was hooked up ·correctly when it was replaced? · · · A.· · I do, I do not.

Thus we are in a situation, where we must assume that IH had access to the smart-meter all the time and could remote control the Doral electric power consumption. This explains why Darden in August 2015 suddenly wanted to fly to Doral - that time with Murray. Just after AR's COP doubled...

IH knew from the beginning that AR's COP was between 5-6, which was no danger for any surplus payment. But after August 2015 the story completely changed. The new COP now was 10-11... This is the same (11) COP IH internally got, as Darden told a friend in his e-mail.

Quote from barty

Do you have a recent source?

http://coldreaction.net/get_file.php?id=31840531&vnr=150731

@ZenoOfElea,

Thank you for your intelligent post. You are (partially) right. I will respond to you in more detail later.

Cheers,

JB

Quote from Bob

We now know that Rossi ran the entire Lugano test and that the professors were rarely there at all! Does this sound familiar?

The professors used data loggers and cameras that controlled the test continuously. If Rossi was intervened by changing something, they would have seen this from the data analysis. It made no sense for them to stay there and fix the Ecat for a month!

Quote from IH Fanboy

IH worked for over three years to substantiate the results claimed by Mr. Rossi from the E-Cat technology – all without success. But the Cook-Rossi scientific paper better not be published on Arxiv, or else! I mean, if IH loses control of the all-without-success-unsubstantiated e-Cat technology, it would be an outright travesty for IH and its investors.

Quote

Rossi:

As you have seen in the documents published of the litigation, IH has accused me to have violated the NDA with the publication of the paper Cook-Rossi: while this accusation is ridiculous, since they had approved the draft before the publication on Arxiv Physics, this fact explains to you how mined is the field I have to walk through.

In this case it really seems that IH climbs on the mirrors. We all have read Rossi's emails to Darden, in which Rossi talked about his collaboration with Cook and about the article they were writing. What is the sense of accusing him of having violated the NDA? They could not complain before?