Rossi vs. Darden developments [CASE CLOSED]

  • That said, I will say that my general impression from a broad reading of the depositions, is that IH was too "hands-off" with Rossi, and let him do whatever he wanted, in however way he wanted. They admit to that, explaining as their rationale that they were afraid to piss him off, and lose him, as all they cared about was whether the tech worked. What they failed to realize though, was that with the long rope they gave Rossi to operate, he used to make the hang mans noose he has wrapped around IH's neck right now.


    I can understand this sentiment, and to some extent I agree with it. However, I also think that IH is overplaying their hand here. I've never seen so much playing-dumb-after-the-fact in my life. I mean, they had Dameron working closely with Rossi from the get-go. Dameron was still operating an IH-built e-cat as late as January, 2016. Reading from Darden's and Vaughn's depositions alone, one would think that they were totally clueless about anything that was going on: I don't know, I don't know, I don't recall, I don't remember, we weren't experts, we didn't have good experts, ...


    I call BS. They knew what was going on. They knew that they were seeing high COPs even using IH-built reactors. They had engineers and scientists on it, and generating reports. They knew they were attracting funding based on their discoveries. These are not halfwit ignoramuses. This mantra about never being able to substantiate "at all times" became the word of the day only after the lawsuit was filed. That is going to be a tough one to defend before a jury, I'm afraid.

  • Quote

    They knew that they were seeing high COPs even using IH-built reactors.


    If true, they were seeing measurement errors-- errors probably engendered by using Rossi's methods instead of independently derived and correct ones, including calibration over the full temperature range.

  • If true, they were seeing measurement errors-- errors probably engendered by using Rossi's methods instead of independently derived and correct ones, including calibration over the full temperature range.


    Of course MY you would believe that. But there is no evidence on the court docket that that is what they were seeing.

  • I wouldn't know. The documents are essentially interminable. But if there is no such evidence, I suspect that before a trial ends, there will be some. If any version of the ecat worked, especially, but not necessarily, at high "COP's", then IH would be zillionaires and there would be no law suit.

  • He's at it again.


    • Yrka

      May 4, 2017 at 11:49 AM

      Dear Dr. Andrea Rossi.
      I understand your desire to achieve Sigma 5.
      I ask to forgive my question. I’m not a learned physicist, I’m an engineering practitioner.
      I carefully monitor your work since 2014. I look forward to the products on the market.
      If it is possible, tell us in what condition the preparation of plants in the US and Sweden.
      Thank you for your attention to our issues.
      Good luck to you and good health!
      Yuriy Isaev
      Engineer,
      Tyumen, Russia.

    • Andrea Rossi

      May 4, 2017 at 2:42 PM

      Yrka:
      In the US we already have a factory where we already are manufacturing industrial products.
      In Sweden we are not yet ready to start a production, but we are working hard to start it within this year.
      Warm Regards,
      A.R.

  • I wouldn't know. The documents are essentially interminable. But if there is no such evidence, I suspect that before a trial ends, there will be some. If any version of the ecat worked, especially, but not necessarily, at high "COP's", then IH would be zillionaires and there would be no law suit.


    MY,


    They were zillionaires until Rossi kicked over the hornets nest. The tech is real you know and Darden hasn't been sitting on his hands. They have all kinds of things lined up to follow-up on after the trail. However, now IH is fighting tooth and nail to first get rid of Rossi. Investors are getting nervous and that, in combination with the uncertainty of a jury trial, will add to the pressure to settle with Rossi.


    JB

  • I can understand this sentiment, and to some extent I agree with it. However, I also think that IH is overplaying their hand here. I've never seen so much playing-dumb-after-the-fact in my life. I mean, they had Dameron working closely with Rossi from the get-go. Dameron was still operating an IH-built e-cat as late as January, 2016. Reading from Darden's and Vaughn's depositions alone, one would think that they were totally clueless about anything that was going on: I don't know, I don't know, I don't recall, I don't remember, we weren't experts, we didn't have good experts, ...


    I call BS. They knew what was going on. They knew that they were seeing high COPs even using IH-built reactors. They had engineers and scientists on it, and generating reports. They knew they were attracting funding based on their discoveries. These are not halfwit ignoramuses. This mantra about never being able to substantiate "at all times" became the word of the day only after the lawsuit was filed. That is going to be a tough one to defend before a jury, I'm afraid.


    IHFB,


    You are spot on, Sir.


    They knew exactly what was going on. At one point in time Darden decided not to continue with Rossi. Perhaps that already was the plan from the beginning. Once, mostly through Rossi, IH gained enough "LENR momentum" they started executing their departure plan.


    Working without Rossi promised not only short-term monetary advantages, they also would not be bothered by this hard-to-work-with, nosey, dominant character. Moreover, Rossi was contaminated and controversial and i can imagine that IH felt they would be more representative towards (potential) partners without him.


    APCO advised them to stick to the truth as much as possible;


    "We wanted to save the world and even if there was a 1% chance of Rossi being right, we did not want to miss that opportunity. You do not need to thank us, but please note that everything we do is to make your favorite planet a better place".


    "We tried everything in our power to get his tech to work, but funny enough never succeeded. Perhaps because Rossi did not share all of his knowledge with us. We constantly tried to get to the bottom of his tech, but he is such a hard guy to work with that we gave up and were all very glad that he stayed in a container for a year".


    "Yes, we thought that it would be beneficial to give him some rope. We are relaxed guys, you know. But guess what, Rossi only used it to prove that he is a full-time scammer. All of the Rossi mudslinging is true. He is a total fraud!".


    "Luckily we could still attract investors, because our LENR portfolio is so great. This money had nothing to do with Rossi. After the Rossi debacle we are stronger than ever; Our portfolio of work has never been stronger and we remain excited about the potential we see."


    And so on, and so forth...


    I call BS as well and raise with all the chips in front of me.


    Cheers,


    JB

    • Official Post

    I also think that IH is overplaying their hand here. I've never seen so much playing-dumb-after-the-fact in my life.


    IHFB,


    Yes, I agree there was some playing dumb, but not nearly as much as you think. There were two crucial periods where IH was obviously highly suspicious, about to take some dramatic action, and both times Ferrara and Lugano came into play to placate them. What timing! Call it coincidence as you no doubt will (I choose instead to be highly suspicious), but had Levi and the Swedes not come through with those "successes", there is a very real possibility IH would have backed out of the VT, or if not that, refused to sign the Term Sheet agreeing to Doral. I have no doubt also, that Parkomov, Sheng Shing, BG and his few over hypes, played a part in their decision to ignore their gut instincts, and stay the course with Rossi.


    You can see it all over TD's and Vaughns testimony; they knew Rossi was deceitful, knew his history, did not trust him, were always suspicious...yet here are these 7 distinguished professors telling us, first at Bologna -the very day of the VT, and later at Lugano -right before agreeing to Doral, that Rossi has something. They clearly respected those guys too...who wouldn't? Another thing always in the back of their minds, according to their own counter-suit, is that they did not know then, nor even now, if Rossi turned everything over as per the agreement.


    So they were in this difficult position, where they had suspicions on one hand, but they also had the Swedes and the possibility that Rossi was holding back, on the other. With what they felt was their call to duty to get to the bottom of this for the good of the planet, they chose the only option they thought best, and that was to ride it out, and let Rossi be Rossi. That may cost them dearly.


    Anyways, I see from doc 280 that Levi and team "may present"...in other words, travel to Miami and take the stand for Rossi. If they do, that will be very exciting, and informative. If Levi does so, it will also be interesting to see if IH brings up Fabiani's USQL, with no assets, paying Levi that consulting fee?

  • To those who believe Rossi is the real deal...... and that IH is " playing dumb"....


    How do you explain that he wants $89 million dollars for a plant that he states worked for 350 out of 400 days with COP up to 80 plus and yet since filing his

    lawsuit, he does nothing to prove it works at all? Nothing! He is spending tens of thousands of dollars in lawyers when he could pay half that much to

    have a real lab prove his machine works! Yet he does not! How do you accept this and yet point the finger at IH? Really?


    Why is he not selling these in Europe where IH has no involvement? He would easily make much more than $89 million dollars! Why do you accept this

    absurdity?


    Why is he stating on his blog that he is "manufacturing industrial product" in the US but not in Europe? We know his plant is the Doral facility, he said so!

    He is continuing to lie to you and you soak it up!


    Why is he dropping the 1mw plant for the QuarkX completely? 1MW for 20W powered devices? Remember now... he is suing for $89 million dollars because HE states the plant is ready for commercialization! 350 days out of 400 with COP over 80! Why would he drop such an amazing product! You readily accept this and

    think, Oh, no problem! However IH now, they are real devils and deceivers! Really?


    Why is he stating he must have "5 sigma" before continuing? That is pure BS! If he had 1 sigma he would have manufacturers knocking at this door. Please wake up to this fact. The 5 sigma is complete BS! He is just using an excuse and people accept it without any question! Ridiculous! How to you justify this to yourself?

    He does not need 5 sigma. He has not even provided a legitimate test yet, much less 5 sigma! Who is certifying this 5 sigma? His team of day laborers?

    Think about it? Who? Penon? I do ask you seriously? Are you thinking that UL, or Veritas or some other agency is still involved? How to you process this

    line of BS and accept it?


    In 6 months from now, when there is no further proof from Rossi and he is moving to his next dodge, his next design, his next certification, are you still going to loyally support him? In 6 months when there is no verified QuarkX customer, QuarkX test, QuarkX factory, will you keep singing his praises?


    Have you asked yourself what will be the line that finally breaks this allegiance to him? If so, what is it? Or will you simply support him no matter what?


    Edit, I often see a one sentence reply that usually states nothing. I have not seen a well though out view that accounts for each of the points above.

  • I call BS. They knew what was going on. They knew that they were seeing high COPs even using IH-built reactors.

    They sure did see high COPs! The results were astounding. Unbelievable. Impossible, even. They got 9 times more heat out of one cell than they put in, even though there was no fuel in the cell!!! You can't ask for better performance than that. It is so darn good, there is no such thing as a control. Every single version works. It works just as well with ordinary air as with a hydride.


    Oddly enough, Rossi was not overjoyed to hear that his device works so well.

  • Docs. 282 and 283 and attachments now on the docket:




    Ai, Jones Day screwed-up and now needs to patch-up. And it seems that Rossi's defense team is rightfully worried about Darden's communication with the Israelis (that Rossi's defense ever received these mails is another screw-up of JD btw). I am also really interested what info Darden does not dare to send through his normal mail account. Aren't you Bob?


    Smart guys these Israelis. Under the safe umbrella of being an attorney offer sketchy services to sketchy clients. Uzi, what's in a name?


    Cheers,


    JB

    • Official Post

    He is spending tens of thousands of dollars in lawyers when he could pay half that much to

    have a real lab prove his machine works!


    More than "thousands of dollars" Bob. Rossi is asking for $7.5m in legal fee reimbursement if he wins. So as to be fair, IH is asking for the same amount ($7.5m). So this messy affair has cost $15m in legal fees. For that amount, we could have funded MFMP for the next 100 years. Makes the argument that Rossi has been good for the field, ring hollow.

  • It is worth $7.5m for Rossi to get out from underneath that contract. It was (and still is) one-sided. Few lawyers would have recommended such a terrible contract, to either side. Unless interests are aligned (which they weren't in this instance), and when big money is on the line, there will eventually be a dispute--almost without fail. The original contract has got to be fair to both sides.


    You can't "sneak" in provisions, for example, that favor you (e.g., one-way confidentiality) while being a detriment to the other party. Well you can, but you best expect the relationship to break down once everyone realizes how unfair it is. Once Rossi found out that IH was funding a bunch of other LENR outfits, and had no obligations to keep his secrets confidential (as per the contract), Rossi was probably shocked and outraged. Once it became clear that IH was not going to pay, the deal was destined for the refuge bin.

  • Quote

    In the US we already have a factory where we already are manufacturing industrial products.


    An oldy moldy. He said the same in 2011. It wasn't true then and it isn't true now. Unless maybe he's making brooms or brushes or some "industrial product" like that.


    Quote

    They were zillionaires until Rossi kicked over the hornets nest. The tech is real you know and Darden hasn't been sitting on his hands. They have all kinds of things lined up to follow-up on after the trail. However, now IH is fighting tooth and nail to first get rid of Rossi. Investors are getting nervous and that, in combination with the uncertainty of a jury trial, will add to the pressure to settle with Rossi.


    Rossi's tech is real? What have you been smoking. The only thing Rossi has which is real is the ability to pick easy marks for his cons (frauds).


    Quote

    You can see it all over TD's and Vaughns testimony; they knew Rossi was deceitful, knew his history, did not trust him, were always suspicious...yet here are these 7 distinguished professors telling us, first at Bologna -the very day of the VT, and later at Lugano -right before agreeing to Doral, that Rossi has something. They clearly respected those guys too...who wouldn't? Another thing always in the back of their minds, according to their own counter-suit, is that they did not know then, nor even now, if Rossi turned everything over as per the agreement.


    To their credit, Kullander and Essen never said with certainty that Rossi had anything. They only said that they observed what COULD BE an anomalous source of energy. They also said many more experiments were needed. As for the other Swedes, lewan and the three blind mice, they were gullible and incompetent-- hardly "distinguished". They were fools who didn't know what they didn't know and they got roundly flummoxed by Rossi. Shane, I am constantly amazed that someone with your abilities and experience in general still falls for such garbage as you seem to.


    And of course, Bob is right. For a few thousand dollars and in a few weeks, Rossi could have repeated (but properly done independently) the Levi experiment that yielded 135 peak kW without phase change in the coolant. He could have sold his tech using that demo to virtually any major company, not pipsqueak insignificant outfit like IH, and made billions. Any large company-- GM, GE, Boeing, Google, Tesla, Amazon, SpaceX, etc. etc. etc. would have snapped it up in an instant, helped to make the patents ironclad and would have been more than delighted to acknowledge Rossi as the inventor and pay him royalties. He could have retired anywhere he wanted or had any lab he wanted for Quarks X Y and Z.

    • Official Post

    Anyways, I see from doc 280 that Levi and team "may present"...in other words, travel to Miami and take the stand for Rossi. If they do, that will be very exciting, and informative. If Levi does so, it will also be interesting to see if IH brings up Fabiani's USQL, with no assets, paying Levi that consulting fee?


    I will re,mind you that Levi was paid nothing by Fabiani. UniBo was paid by Fabiani, the money being for a couple of postgrads to play pool, or whatever. A properly recorded payment on the public record credited to Levi's department. You make it sound as if it was an 'irregular payment' of some kind, which it was certainly not.

    • Official Post

    Read 283-03 (4/20 spoliation hearing transcripts). A few portions were released the other day, and this one fills in the missing blanks. Yeah, I had it right, this judge is an idiot. If not that, then his case load has scrambled his brain. Made my blood boil to read. Rossi's lawyer has no scruples either. In his shoes, I would puke before I could defend Rossi on that heat exchanger the way he did, but it did not seem to bother him in the least.


    In the end, I guess lawyers will do what they have to do to win for their client (up to a point), and it is up to the judge to balance the scales of justice. This one though, is not up to the task. Guess he will have that fun summer trial he looks forward to.


    Feel sorry for Pace (IH's lawyer), as he made some excellent points about the piping, and heat exchanger...about what we have said here, and it seemed to fly right over the judges head.

    • Official Post

    UniBo was paid by Fabiani, the money being for a couple of postgrads to play pool, or whatever. A properly recorded payment on the public record credited to Levi's department. You make it sound as if it was an 'irregular payment' of some kind, which it was certainly not.


    Alan,


    Will dig into it again tomorrow, but if you are correct, then I hope what you claim is brought up too. Quid pro quo's can be a bit roundabout, and USQL had no assets to donate. An eye brow raiser either way.