Rossi vs. Darden developments [CASE CLOSED]

    Quote from THHuxleynew

    The issue with testing companies is that they are paid, and therefore do what you ask.

    I do not think this is an issue at all! There is no way you could persuade a licensed professional to do the test the wrong way, or produce fake results, or skewed results. I am sure he would insist on installing the correct instruments according to code, and I said, the codes are detailed and admit no creativity. You put a dial thermometer 6 feet away from the boiler on a level pipe of a certain diameter made of a specified grade of steel, etc., etc. As I said, if the authorities found out the guy did it the wrong way, they would revoke his license. I am serious. This would be like asking an auto mechanic to install equipment that is unsafe and violates EPA regulations, such as a "rolling coal" accessory:


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolling_coal


    If a mechanic installs one of these stupid things and you cause an accident with it, he will lose his livelihood. No sensible mechanic would run that risk. It is like working for a chop shop (a place where they take apart stolen vehicles to sell the parts).


    The only stumbling block with the Rossi gadget might be that if a licensed boiler technician measured the output and found it was over-unity, say 200% of input, he might not sign off on the report. He might be afraid to, because it would hurt his reputation to be associated with the claim. However, you could look at his results and draw your own conclusions. You could decide the next steps from that.


    (On the plus side, you wouldn't have to pay him if he refused to sign off!)


    To take a real-world example, as I recall, the Dean of Mech. Engineering at Georgia Tech refused to sign off on the results from Thermodyanics. They paid him tens of thousands for the test rig, but he and another professional reneged and never signed off. I doubt that he expected it would show a positive result.

    With COP of 60+ it should be "easy" to self generate and disconnect form the utilities. (in fact anything much over 10 to one should be "easy"). You wouldn't even need a steam/boiler engineer. I bet you could even pick up a steam engine/generator set for the cost of a few pinball machines.

    Quote from axil

    The ASME tests do not consider overunit (gainful) determination.

    They don't have to. That is simply a matter of grade school level arithmetic. You divide output by input. Normally, the answer never, ever comes out above 1. In this case it would. In every other respect, the instruments and methods would be exactly the same as any other boiler test.


    Really, your objection is idiotic. Of course they do not consider over-unity. Because as far as anyone knows, an over-unity result from electrically powered equipment is physically impossible. That is common knowledge. Everyone here knows it. Every engineer and expert at the ASME knows it, so of course their procedures do not explicitly cover this eventuality, any more than the operating instructions for an airplane describe what to do in the event of a complete loss of gravity.


    Despite that, simple arithmetic would show the result is over unity. No one would dispute that, and for you to bring it up as an objection is absurd.

    Quote from oldguy

    With COP of 60+ it should be "easy" to self generate and disconnect form the utilities.

    No, this is not easy at all. It would probably take millions of dollars and months, or years. Generating electricity from heat is complicated. The temperatures and power density from a Rossi device (assuming it is real) would be far too low for any conventional generator or thermoelectric devices. Something could be engineered but it would take a long time and a ton of money.


    You can learn more about this by reading about fuel-flexible generation with micro-turbines. They are not commercially successful because of all the engineering problems associated with them.


    I am sure the devices could be used for commercial generation of electricity eventually, with reasonably good efficiency. It would probably work on a wide range of devices, from home generators to megawatt generators. But it would cost several billion dollars just to get the first home generator. I say this based on what I read yesterday about one the automakers that is now entering the electric car and plug in hybrid vehicle market. They brought out a range of models that cost $9 billion to develop. Compared to a cold fusion generator this is a minor incremental improvement to the technology. As I recall, the Prius cost $1 billion initially, and many years of difficult effort:


    http://money.cnn.com/2006/02/1…stadmired_fortune_toyota/


    A cold fusion home generator is a far greater leap forward into unknown technology than the Prius was. Once you develop the thing, the next model is a lot cheaper, and the product line can be expanded easily. There are now many different Prius models. They did not all take $1 billion to get started.


    $1 billion or $10 billion for the first generator would not stop any major industrial corporation. The profits would eventually be measured in trillions of dollars.

    Quote from Forty-Two

    Didn't SKINR try to replicate (and fail with) the "MFMP signal"?


    From what we were told and shown, SKINR did not use any radiation detection, nor did they replicate our protocol, despite my sharing my lab notes and all details of the experiment.

    My impression is that it was a poorly designed and run test, with many important details ignored, and no data published.

    Quote from Forty-Two

    Wasn't NASA willing to test the e-cat?

    Yup, they were. I spent several hours with those people at conference. They are great people. They would have done a terrific job. Rossi almost blew them up -- in the literal sense -- with a plugged up reactor. After it cooled down and he unplugged it, they asked him to repeat the test. He refused. They said sorry, we can't fund you or launch a project without a test. He went ape shit, screaming obscenities and carrying on. He threw them out. That's what I've heard, anyway.

    Quote from Shane D.

    OG,


    FWIW, IH did try and bring in a couple of the big boys for the VT, but Rossi raised a ruckus, and IH backed down.


    As I recall, they extended the test into two days: one for the validation as originally proposed (albeit with a lower reactor count), and the next day for IH to use whomever they wanted to further validate.

    Quote from Forty-Two

    Surely, you need to represent a minimum on credibility in order to be taken seriously.

    And when I just think about the videos and messages which Bob Greenyer recently published on the internet, that's surely not something what would enhance ones credibility - so don't be suprised when MFMP will face some problems to be taken serious...


    The MFMP is larger than BG, although I think he is doing a fine job. I could care less about his views on 911. There are thousands that hold similar views. I don't share those views, but to me, it makes no difference as to the superb job he is doing with the MFMP.

    Quote from oldguy

    With COP of 60+ it should be "easy" to self generate and disconnect form the utilities. (in fact anything much over 10 to one should be "easy"). You wouldn't even need a steam/boiler engineer. I bet you could even pick up a steam engine/generator set for the cost of a few pinball machines.

    Funny, Rossi's hotdog cookers have NEVER been disconnected from their power source....ever, wonder why.

    Quote from THHuxleynew

    MFMP demonstrates that me356 has what he claims.

    Yes, that would convince me. I'll bet anyone here able to spare the cash and happy to establish suitable terms $1000 it will not happen. I'd be happy to lose.

    If this bet still stands I'm in!


    The terms could be a reasonable COP, say >3 with power out >500W, obtained during a reasonable time, say >1 hour, that is proven beyond a reasonable doubt with a test carried out say before the end of this Summer. Happy to discuss any more specific technical elements you may want to add to define the meaning of "beyond a reasonable doubt" based on the MFMP's setup.


    If all the conditions above are fulfilled I propose that you pay $1000 to the MFMP in the 10 days that will follow the completion of the test. If any of the conditions above is not met, I pay $1000 to the MFMP during the same period, alternatively at the end of September if me356 will not honor his commitment. So that the MFMP will be a winner in any case.


    A serious offer. Anyone else ready to pledge some cash - not necessarily $1000 - because confident that the test will be a failure or a success, following the above terms, is welcome to participate.


    Edit: I let the Mods see if this message should stay here or be moved to the dedicated AURA thread.

    you might want to try a "go fund me" crowd sourcing event.

    So the university of Uppsala hires Fabiani. Cool!


    A case of "keep your friends close, but your enemies closer"? Or, and this is much more plausible, a genuine interest in the LENR field in general and in Rossi's findings in particular?


    It seems that the Uppsala university was not very impressed by The Weasel's threats.


    Ahlfors, many thanks for your post. Can you perhaps disclose some more info?

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