Rossi vs. Darden developments [CASE CLOSED]

  • Can we have a new rule on this forum?


    If you want to call Andrea Rossi a scam artist(aka a person involved in criminal activity), you have to explain how he has scammed everyone for the last 6 years.


    I am tired of people calling him a scammer, without explaining what the scam is, how the scam works, who the victims are.(IH is 30million richer thanks to Rossi)


    If you can't give a good & clear explanation, you will get banned after three strikes. Doesn't that look like a fair deal?


    I made a general commment that some people here have an agenda to discourage people from participating in LENR and I got directly flagged by a moderator. If we are going to be strict in one way, let's get strict in the other way also.


  • That Annesser has this Rossi family connection illuminates some things, but we are left with the Annesser move from Silver Law coincident with this case.


    Who, I wonder felt they were helping who? And were they correct...


    Perhaps this is reading too much into these little coincidences.



  • Well, first of all, IH is accusing Rossi of scamming them. That is clear when they cite Florida's statue on fraud, which they accuse Rossi as being guilty of. And they are explicit that they were fraudulently induced into signing a contract (the Term Sheet) that they claim they would not have signed if not for fraud (or 'scammed' in the vernacular). So this 'scam' is central to the entire topic and discussion on this thread.


    We now know that Rossi, by his own admission, fully operated both 'arms' of the Doral agreement. Meaning that he leased the entire warehouse (as Leonardo Corp.) and subleased it to JMP (which he also directed). And in emails to Darden, he specifically stated that JMP would not allow him (Rossi) to divulge any additional information about who JMP was owned or controlled by. Thus we have Rossi declaring to IH that Rossi would not permit Rossi to divulge information (but he obviously did not disclose this absurdity to IH). I would argue that that was incontrovertibly an act of intentional deception on Rossi's part, and that that deception was intended to pressure IH into signing the Term Sheet.


    I also assert that it is entirely reasonable to use the vernacular 'scam' to accurately characterize those behaviors by Rossi.


    I also have several examples of 'Rossisaids' (robotic factories, satisfied customers, etc.) which neatly fit the description of scams.


    But your notion that somehow it is commenter's responsibility to 'explain how he has scammed everyone for the last 6 years' unreasonable and unwarranted.


    In fact, Rossi has such a long history of deception, that I think a better question is 'why does anyone accept Rossi's suspicious claims as fact?'.


    And I say that earnestly and in all sincerity.

  • That Annesser has this Rossi family connection illuminates some things, but we are left with the Annesser move from Silver Law coincicent with this case.


    THH,


    Annesser moved from the Silver Law group, over to the Perleman group last summer I believe. Then we found out yesterday that he resigned from Perlman, and is now on his own now, along with Chaiken.

  • Ele/Ahifors know exactly what he is doing. The signs of desperation further indicate that Planet Rossi is in its final throes and is about to be crushed.


    Expecting further nastiness from those folks - they are about of bullets. Priceless coming from a convicted con / felon.

    Dear Dewey,

    1) Ele and Ahifors have no relation, don't know each other and "meet" only in this forum.

    2) Who is "he" ? Rossi ? Have no idea of what he is doing now. I don't even read the JONP. Maybe I can ask but I'm not curios about.

    3) Sign of desperation..... maybe are just yours not mine.

    4) Nastiness ? I just write my opinion in a Forum, as you are doing. The only difference is that I do not insult other people.

    5) Priceless ? what ? Have you a connection with MAstercard(r)? https://www.priceless.com/en-u…ist/BE/europe/region.html

    6) Convicted. Once again Rossi was cleared by all accusation and found innocent. He was unjustly convicted for about 4 years but refunded by Italian state.

    A bien tot ! CUL8R !

  • can ,


    I am in favor of an Ahlfors thread as well. This person has some very interesting new insights.


    Despite all the FUD and venom i have always found one fact about Rossi very encouraging;


    People that know Andrea Rossi well, stay on his side. No matter what.


    That he works closely with several members of the Anneser family is again an example that people that really know him stay in his camp. I find it very plausible that lawyer Anneser, the obvious legal leader for Rossi in this case, reached out for some extra hands during the discovery period, and now that the trial seems to sail into the next phase, parts from these guys again.


    The Weasel is constantly hissing about "cockroaches", "rats leaving the ship", etc. Can anyone give me three names of people close to Rossi that left him?


    Let's keep things respectful. Eric

  • Well, first of all, IH is accusing Rossi of scamming them. That is clear when they cite Florida's statue on fraud, which they accuse Rossi as being guilty of. And they are explicit that they were fraudulently induced into signing a contract (the Term Sheet) that they claim they would not have signed if not for fraud (or 'scammed' in the vernacular). So this 'scam' is central to the entire topic and discussion on this thread.

    No Sigmoidal (IH). The topic of this thread is the trial Rossi vs IH and IH vs Rossi .

    The fact that Rossi is accusing IH does not mean that IH is guilty as the fact that IH is accusing Rossi does not mean that Rossi is guity.

    As I and others have pointed out many times we think that there are many posters here that accuse Rossi just to "create an opinion" and poison the Jury of the trials, but I think sincerely that Jurors will be much more intelligent then IH thinks. They have no reason to read all the trash and insults posted here.


  • LLTL - you are quite right to be concerned about misuse of the word scam.


    I think you are quite wrong to demand precisely what is the situation. That would be unkind to Rossi - there are shades here and we cannot know which is true. It is all too easy to make him worse than he is.


    In case you think I'm copping out here is one explanation, which i hope you think is good and clear enough for me not, under your rules, to be banned.


    Rossi deceives his business associates. Repeatedly, and over matters of importance. He has done this for many years. Documented. Also, documented, his devices in previous schemes have never previously worked as claimed. He has also, documented, mis-measured his reactor when demonstrating it to an important prospective business partner (Hydrofusion). When measured by independent people it did not work (at all). Mats vouches for this, and says that Rossi got angry and did not let Mats explain (in a friendly fashion) the physics behind the mis-measurement. IH claim a Rossi measurement protocol showed COP=9 on a dummy reactor. Again Rossi stormed out, angry. Finally NASA offered to measure his device under strict controlled conditions, rather than accept his own demo, and he walked out swearing at them.


    In spite of this repeated and well known deceptive behavior Rossi is obviously personally very convincing, especially to naive scientists and journalists. I think he sells something we all ardently wish for, and when selling wishes, a significant number of people will let their hopes triumph over their common sense and buy.


    As for who are the victims: anyone who pays Rossi money. In the case of IH the real victims would be Woodford fund investors (who lose part of their money in an unwise investment) and other LENR researchers who have less money from IH due to that gone to Rossi, and probably now even less, due to the large amount spent on lawyers - though it is interesting to note that half of this legal money stays in the Rossi family.


    So there are undoubtedly victims, but whether you call this a scam or an unwise investment in someone who repeatedly deceives business associates I don't know. IH seem to be gunning for fraud from Rossi, so if they are right it would be what in popular parlance is called a scam.


    If you think that what Rossi gave to IH worked, then you have to call Darden a criminal perjuror. If the reactors Rossi gave to IH did not work I think most people would call Rossi a scammer, whether that is technically true or not. So it is difficult for comment on this matter to be polite to both Draden and Rossi.

  • No Sigmoidal (IH). The topic of this thread is the trial Rossi vs IH and IH vs Rossi .

    The fact that Rossi is accusing IH does not mean that IH is guilty as the fact that IH is accusing Rossi does not mean that Rossi is guity.

    As I and others have pointed out many times we think that there are many posters here that accuse Rossi just to "create an opinion" and poison the Jury of the trials, but I think sincerely that Jurors will be much more intelligent then IH thinks. They have no reason to read all the trash and insults posted here.


    Ele, by accuse do you mean noting the many documented instances of Rossi's deception of his business associates? The documented cases where he has claimed his device works when measuring it himself for potential or actual investors, and then it has been orrefutably discovered that the device was an electric heater? Or something harsher than these things?


    I quite understand that some people remain on his side in spite of these things. I'm wondering what you yourself make of them.

  • sigmoidal

    So arguing legalities, that's your ultimate proof of Rossi's crimes. That's a incredible weak case, especially when IH cashed an investment of 50 million dollar while the 1MW test was running.


    So you are basically saying that he has a working 1MW reactor but he didn't follow the signed contract by the letter.


    Rossi doesn't have a history of deception, that's why you just made up. Being cautious about your IP isn't illegal behaviour.


    And BTW you didn't answer my questions.

  • Eric Walker ,


    Sure. However, have you seen how weird that sentence looks with only "The Weasel" in green?


    We all know that Rossi is present on this forum. Are the other animal metaphors than not as bad?


    Somehow i keep typing the name of the respectable Mr. Dewey Weaver wrong. I am not what it is with him. Everything related to him looks and sounds all dandy and all, but then suddenly unconsciously slides to a dark and smelly place, like the flushing of a turd in a toilet bowl.


    Cheers,


    JB


    Your attitude is off, and I'm close to concluding that you're not able to contribute constructively to this thread. Eric

  • Rossi's accountant is Diane Annesser, attorney John Annesser's mother. JMP's payroll (which was also directed by Rossi) was handled by Julia Annesser, John's wife.

    Hmmm, seems you are try to stalk even the family of Rossi's Lawyer.

    This is quite disgusting on my point of view, because is irrelevant here. I presume, but not sure, that all that could be even out of law.

  • Did you ever post there?


    I've followed that forum (actually, thread) since a certain person pretty much told everybody to come reading what an insider in the E-Cat saga was writing. Then the thread slowly went downhill due to trolls taking over and the administrators not caring at all about what was going on. Instead of threatening to leave, Ahlfors should realize that a similar situation won't happen on LENR-Forum (at least not anytime soon), but he can't expect to do things the way he wants.


    Oh, nice job in support of Bob Higgins on the NI LiAlH thread.


    I do what I can, but I'm mostly posting what I would have made for myself anyway. I don't claim to be an expert in data analysis.


    can


    Sure?


    Hopefully...


    A bien tot ! CUL8R !


    Culottor?


  • accuse do you mean noting the many documented instances of Rossi's deception of his business associates? The documented cases where he has claimed his device works when measuring it himself for potential or actual investors, and then it has been orrefutably discovered that the device was an electric heater? Or something harsher than these things?


    I quite understand that some people remain on his side in spite of these things. I'm wondering what you yourself make of them.

    There are also many evidence against IH. Like for example collecting 250 M$ from investors during one long year without telling of any problem about Rossi.