Rossi vs. Darden developments [CASE CLOSED]

Quote from we_cat_global

Dewey Weaver.

If so, only after IH violated the agreement.

Cheers,

JB

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How did IH violate the agreement?

And why would he be justified in sending IH's materials to his friends in Sweden? Remember the system was owned by IH Sure sounds like theft to me. Notice he filed before the payment was due they had 5 days after (as I read things) to pay after the report was submitted. Notice the timing is based on the report and not on the operation of the system- otherwise what would prevent Penon from waiting year to give the report. . Rossi sent the materials before Penon's report was even sent to IH.

Quote from IH Fanboy

@THH,

IH would not have built four shiny brand new cars (i.e., the four Big Frankies) ...

According to the the term sheet (Doc 29 - Exh 17) the 1MW plant was build in Italy:

http://coldfusioncommunity.net…11/0029.17_Exhibit_17.pdf

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Clause 1:

Industrial Heat llc, directly or through its affiliates, owns a 1 MW E-cat steam plant (the "1MW plant") build by affiliates of Leonardo in Italy in 2013.

Clause 4:

IH intends to make available to JMC the 1MW plant for a period of 2 years.

Btw: Another funny episode of the e-cat soap opera can be found in Doc 214-22 p3 (JTVaughn status update e-mail): http://coldfusioncommunity.net…loads/2017/01/0214.22.pdf

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After Rossi finished the 24 hour test in May, he began the process of shipping the 1MW plant to us, with its 105 individual 10kW reactors inside. This took time because the container was non-standard, but arrived at Norfolk on August 1.

We had some disconcerting moments when customs first required an x-ray test to see what was inside the mysterious box, followed next by a special in-person inspection. But this should not have been suprising, since a Google search of the shipper would reveal they are in business of making some kind of nuclear reactors (at least, "low energy nuclear reactors"). Nothwithstanding the drama, our 1 MW unit successfully cleared customs Wednesday and will arrive in Raleigh Friday, 8/16/13. Rossi was extremely worried during this time because the 105 reactors inside are fueled and operational, so an invasive inspection could reveal their internal design and fuel system. Now that it is over, perhaps we should be glad customs did thorough tests of the reactors, because this is further ratification that they are not radioactive or obviously harmful.

Maybe the Russian's have stolen the fuel from all e-cats while they were shipped (unsecured) from Italy to US - and that's the reason why the e-cats didn't work anymore when with IH?

Quote from Alan Smith

Depends who bought the fuel. We assume it was IH, but don't really know. And I don't suppose for one moment he sent more than a gram or so for analysis, what would be the point of sending more than that?

But it doesn't really matter if it's a gram or a pico gram, does it? The point of sending it was to get analysis. The point of the analysis was to get an isotopic fingerprint of the ash. But disclosing a fingerprint for analysis to a third party (which is involved in researching this to find out how it works) clearly violates the contractual agreement, which prevents Rossi from disclosing any of his IP to anyone without IH's permission.

IH paid for and licensed Rossi's IP, and could disclose to whomever they wanted, whereas Rossi needed IH's written permission to disclose to anyone. Per the contract.

Right?

Quote from Rionrlty

Both government and big business seem to adhere to a different set of ethics than most individuals are held to. I believe that everything that Rossi did, good or bad, was simply trying emulate and play the so-called game by the same rules as IH held itself to. Only as an individual he gets tagged as scammer, fraud, liar, schemer and charlatan, while IH acting through its myriad shell companies is just behaving normally, as any good business would.

Exactly! Just because certain behaviors are common and therefore predictable does not mean that they are acceptable or judged correct. The fact that it is common for VCs to behave like sharks to pursue their profit ends does not make their attitude justifiable.

Quote from Eric Walker

A key insight in this context is that If IH knew that Rossi's IP worked at the start of the Doral matter and were just trying to give him the short end of the stick, they would have strongly objected to Doral if they thought that it could eventually be construed in retrospect as the GPT, as it would present an 89 million dollar liability which they would have been keen to avoid, since they only hoped to bilk Rossi (by hypothesis). Even if you assign ruthless motives to IH, this is support for the conclusion that they were not confident that Rossi's IP worked at the start of the Doral business.

I don't think so. I think that IH has always believed in Rossi's technology and that Doral's test has served to raise funds from investors. After all, if you really think they were not confident that Rossi's IP worked at the start of the Doral business, you should agree with me that they have been unfair with investors.

Quote from oldguy

Strange question. Rossi removedparts of IH testing sensors and plumbing for the invalid claimed testing and 2year sale of heat to an “independent customer” and even prevented IH agentsfrom entering to check on the testing.It is clear that if it worked as claimed it needed to be done correctlywith proper measurements and run truly independent of Rossi. If he did that I am sure they would bedelighted to pay for such technology. They had commitments for money reallocationif he could do that.

My question has another meaning. I think IH have deliberately acted in an ambiguous way: since the beginning of the Doral test, they knew that it could be considered legally invalid because of the missing signature but they decided not to say it clearly to Rossi because they wanted to see how the test would end. In case of a positive end, they would have had the answer they were looking for and at that time they could still say that the test was not GPT and therefore not pay for it. They have never intended to pay Rossi, from the beginning they have left him to work just to get a confirmation of its technology.

Quote from oldguy

Why trust them with this claimed secret- Because it agreed to technology transfer. He was required to by previous agreements ( that also include future tech that can be use to generate heat)

An agreement with the Swedes for technology transfer? I do not know what you're talking about.......

Quote from SSC

My question has another meaning. I think IH have deliberately acted in an ambiguous way: since the beginning of the Doral test, they knew that it could be considered legally invalid because of the missing signature but they decided not to say it clearly to Rossi because they wanted to see how the test would end. In case of a positive end, they would have had the answer they were looking for and at that time they could still say that the test was not GPT and therefore not pay for it. They have never intended to pay Rossi, from the beginning they have left him to work just to get a confirmation of its technology.

SSC - do you really believe this test gives them confirmation, or ever could? It is set up from the start to provide zero information.

If they want confirmation, and have working reactors, all they have to do is test a few monitoring breakdowns etc. They get better reliability info that way. And no $89M at risk.

But they have acted in an ambiguous way from the start. What do you expect when they could not know whether or not Rossi's stuff could be got to work? Had Rossi given them IP as promised, and working non-spoofed reactors, they would have been in a different and better place.

Quote from THHuxleynew

So many assumptions there...

In any case, who says they did not first build some small ones which (according to Rossi's test methods) worked?

You don't think that IH, in two years time, would have ever thought to place a thermocouple on their prototype reactors to back up the thermal camera measurements? You really think that Darden said "yes sir" to Rossi who allegedly said (according to Darden's testimony) not to ever place a thermocouple on the reactor--for two years or more? And that they would not double check their prototype with a thermocouple before building four new shiny complex Big Frankies? Rossi's control over IH is astounding. He must be a hypnotist.

Quote from Forty-Two

According to the the term sheet (Doc 29 - Exh 17) the 1MW plant was build in Italy:

http://coldfusioncommunity.net…11/0029.17_Exhibit_17.pdf

We are told that a new 1MW was built using some parts from the original. The shell of the original 1 MW plant was seen in the parking lot. We have heard from Dewey that IH was involved in building the new 1 MW plant, and even built in extra security features to make it difficult to access the fuel/ash.

Quote from IH Fanboy

We are told that a new 1MW was built using some parts from the original. The shell of the original 1 MW plant was seen in the parking lot.

I know - but doesn't that mean that in that case Rossi operated a significantly different plant than agreed in the term sheet?

... "Depends who bought the fuel. We assume it was IH, but don't really know."

Easy.

Quote from Forty-Two

I know - but doesn't that mean that in that case Rossi operated a significantly different plant than agreed in the term sheet?

But there was an amendment, but yes it wasn't signed by Ampenergo, and yes it appears that Darden attempted to influence Ampernergo. And yes, it is all a big mess.

Docs. 301, 302 and 303 now on the docket. (Nothing to download for 301.)

Quote from Eric Walker

Docs. 301, 302 and 303 now on the docket. (Nothing to download for 301.)

MSJs

All denied incl 3rd party. My summary of argument "parties clearly disagree about everything, there can be no undisputed facts - it must go to Trial".

Expert witness exclusion:

Murray and Smith: allowed, but Murray must submit a proper expert report. (Annesser did not object to Murray in a timely way, so his evidence is allowed in spite of no report at interview, but he must be treated as an expert witness).

Wong: All statements not allowed except for heat exchanger calculations. These are allowed because Jury is best-placed to judge is Rossi lying, and Wong's testimony can be challenged.

Comment from me.

Great that Wong is allowed, his heat exchanger error can be shown. Judge also notes that Wong would have received precise info from Rossi on heat exchanger design, from which he could calculate performance. It is going to be very difficult for him to wiggle out of this one.

We still, I believe, have the Spoliation issue? If this succeeds the MSJs might be revisited.

Quote from SSC

After all, if you really think they were not confident that Rossi's IP worked at the start of the Doral business, you should agree with me that they have been unfair with investors.

As has been pointed out before, and which I'll take the time to point out again: (1) IH are only the trustees of the funding that was obtained from Woodford and others. They will have to cough it back up if they have not used it for the purposes for which it was obtained, e.g., if they use it instead for self-enrichment, or for buying real estate in Florida. (2) They are likely to have represented to Woodford and others that this is a promising but high-risk investment. IH need no great confidence in Rossi's tech to do (1) and (2) in good faith, only some level of hope and optimism, accurately represented as such, together with the risks. Indeed, I find it much more likely that they did not convey confidence in Rossi's tech to Woodford and others.

Quote from Eric Walker

Indeed, I find it much more likely that they did not convey confidence in Rossi's tech to Woodford and others.

There are always risk disclosures in these kinds of deals: always. So yes, IH would have disclosed many risks, especially given that LENR is a nascent field.

Nevertheless, it remains that Woodford stated in no uncertain terms that Rossi's technology was core to their investment. And the valuation documents that are now on the docket confirm that (as it is split out based on LENR tech, with Rossi's accounting for most of it).

Off to trial we go; where this all lands, nobody knows. I put the probability of a settlement before trial at less than 5%.