Rossi vs. Darden developments [CASE CLOSED]

  • If Rossi wants to convince the markets, he must first convince the LENR+ community. Because the markets look here first. Don't misunderstand me: going to ICCF and convincing the aging traditional LENR researchers is not what I'm referring to. I'm referring to the crowd at ECW, primarily. I'm referring to the MFMP. I'm referring to a subset of the participants here. Convince us first by way of an open black box MFMP test, and the markets will open up like the parting of the skies.

    I'm sorry but I can not really convince myself. First of all, I think it's wrong to talk about "black box" because I guess that to make the E-Cat work, you have to know exactly how to start it and how it is triggered. Consequently, letting someone test the reactor is equivalent to revealing everything that is important and secret. I think Rossi would risk too much. Perhaps it would be facilitated in the ongoing trial, but then he would have to sue everyone who copied his idea. For him it is not enough to be recognized as the moral winner, he wants to collect all the possible fruits of his work.

  • The issue here is either inability to conceive of uncertainty, or inability to conceive of IH changing their internal judgement.

    It's a matter of points of view. You think it's possible that IH people have changed their mind and that they have not stopped Rossi for fear of his " bad disposition". I think that these are just apologies and that it would be too convenient for IH if things were that way. JTV wrote in a mail (now I can not find it, but I remember it well) that the reactor he was testing worked well, he talked about COP 5, if I'm not mistaken. Darden has raised funds from investors, so it's fair to suppose he has spoken well of the E-Cat with them. You may also not give too much credit to document 254, but it is a text presented to the judge and can hardly contain easily disprovable things. In that document you can read this:

    "There is no written evidence that, prior to Defendants’ receipt of $50 million in investment funds, Defendants ever told Plaintiffs that they believed Plaintiffs had violated the License Agreement or that the 350-day test taking place in Florida was not the GPT. See SOF ¶ 60"

    If Darden really considered from the beginning that the Doral test was not the GPT, I do not understand why he did not write at least two lines to point out the thing.Someone may think that it is because it was convenient to keep things vague until Woodford did not open the wallet.

    Points of View ....... You have yours about this and I have mine, but none of us can say "I know the truth", so we can stay here talking about this thing for centuries.....

  • It does seem bizaare. But remember to sustain the view that e-cats work, important to some here and all on ECW, it helps to have a conspiracy theory along the lines of: this technology is being actively suppressed because it would disrupt markets if released. From which it is logical to suppose that some significant fraction of Wall Street is hanging on to every post here. Personally I'm quite sure all those disruptible markets go up when I post.

    Fantastic ! so tell us how to invest our money we will buy shares of the Big Oil or what ever you indicate you make a nice post "Rossi is evil, Levi is the anagram of eviL..... and so on " market go up and we sell. Then I or some other will make another post in favor of Rossi, the markets will go down and we buy !

    Ha ha ha ha..... imagine me and you could be the same person posting from two pc and have control on the whole world markets!


    ....... Thh I presume that you have over evaluated the role and the possibilities of this forum. Make a sanity check, Nobody really serious would look here for serious information. I hope that the Jurors will not.

  • IH you are oh the part who want that the markets rise or fall ? which is your investment plan ? Can we invest or is insider trading ?


    And what about President Trump and President Putin do you think that they also read this forum ?

    We are getting off topic but.....it doesn't look like Ni is working (as per Me346, Rossi, ....) might be best to invest in Palladium. Try the ETF ticker PALL YTD up 21% . Seems to be going up ever since the Tex Tech/Gate rumors. ....

  • Doc. 314, a notice of attorney appearance, now on the docket.

    From Wikipedia : Hinshaw & Culbertson LLP is a national law firm headquartered in Chicago. Founded in 1934, it is one of the 100 largest U.S. law firms and represents clients in complex litigation, regulatory, and transactional matters in 25 offices across the United States and in London


    It sounds like Rossi decided to get more (expensive) help. I read that as him getting worried about the outcome. I doubt he would be doing that if he thought it was a "slam dunk"

  • I'm sorry but I can not really convince myself. First of all, I think it's wrong to talk about "black box" because I guess that to make the E-Cat work, you have to know exactly how to start it and how it is triggered. Consequently, letting someone test the reactor is equivalent to revealing everything that is important and secret. I think Rossi would risk too much. Perhaps it would be facilitated in the ongoing trial, but then he would have to sue everyone who copied his idea. For him it is not enough to be recognized as the moral winner, he wants to collect all the possible fruits of his work.


    He is entitled to the fruits of his work, and this would be the straightest path to those fruits. Let's face it, Mr. Rossi is getting on in years. If he wants this to drag out another 5, 10 years, then keep doing what he is doing. If he wants to get from here to fruits in less than 5 years, he ought to consider my promptings. He would have the entire LENR+ community in his corner evangelizing for him. And even if he never sold a single reactor in the open market, he would become very wealthy, from speaking engagements alone.

  • there is no question that if LENR was validated in the eys of mainstream science, it would be an extremely disruptive event. However, it would not be in any respect because of the cheerleading efforts of IH Fanboy, who is the 21st Century analog of a Hyde Park soapbox harranguer.


    You know nothing about me, what my capabilities are, what my motivations are, with whom I associate, what forums I frequent, what conferences I attend, what handles I use, my means, ... nothing. And you know precious little about the many other LENR+ enthusiasts. You would be missing the mark by a mile to underestimate the strength of this movement. The Lugano report was downloaded hundreds of thousands of times in a matter of days. Contemplate that.

  • Eric : there is no question that if LENR was validated in the eys of mainstream science, it would be an extremely disruptive event. However, it would not be in any respect because of the cheerleading efforts of IH Fanboy, who is the 21st Century analog of a Hyde Park soapbox harranguer.


    It used to be 3 posts from SSC followed IMMEDIATELY by 2 from Ele.

    Now we are blessed with only 2 from SSC followed immediately by 3 from Ele.

    Strange days indeed.



    But my main point would be in reply to SSC and even though I quoted Ele,

    SSC will probably get the message somehow ;)


    "you have to know exactly how to start it and how it is triggered. Consequently, letting someone test the reactor is equivalent to revealing everything that is important and secret. I think Rossi would risk too much."


    forgive my ignorance, but wasn't 10 million smackeroos the reward for handing over

    HOW TO START IT ?


    Go to the playground to see this post since that is where it usually ends up.


    Pete

  • Yes, not only to start it but to make and run it. He was paid to transfer the technology, not sell equipment.

  • Yes, not only to start it but to make and run it. He was paid to transfer the technology, not sell equipment.

    There is almost no point stating that however, since it will be ignored for the 100th time.


    But good luck anyhoo getting a response.


    BTW, are you the same "oldguy" who used to be on the discovery/mythbusters forums ?


    Pete


  • Doxing is a no no. I'm not telling.


    But notice that the Rossi followers never address the obvious question about IP transfer he was paid for.

  • But notice that the Rossi followers never address the obvious question about IP transfer he was paid for.


    It appears to me that he transferred the knowledge. Dameron got a COP of 9. He was still running the IH-Rossi-built reactor as late as 2016--the same time Murray was ramping up his testing of his own modified e-Cat. Murray's modified e-Cat apparently didn't work, although he was given little time to build and test it. But the IH-Rossi-built one worked. IH admitted as much. And there are no contemporaneous emails or test reports that state otherwise.

  • It appears to me that he transferred the knowledge. Dameron got a COP of 9. He was still running the IH-Rossi-built reactor as late as 2016--the same time Murray was ramping up his testing of his own modified e-Cat. Murray's modified e-Cat apparently didn't work, although he was given little time to build and test it. But the IH-Rossi-built one worked. IH admitted as much. And there are no contemporaneous emails or test reports that state otherwise.

    It is not transferred to another until it can be done without the inventor.

  • IHFB - you weren't there and you continue to not have the slightest clue what you are posting about. Nothing of Rossi's has worked in the IH era.

    I know this is hard for you to accept but the empty reactor had the same performance as the loaded reactor on a side-by-side basis.

  • It appears to me that he transferred the knowledge. Dameron got a COP of 9. He was still running the IH-Rossi-built reactor as late as 2016--the same time Murray was ramping up his testing of his own modified e-Cat. Murray's modified e-Cat apparently didn't work, although he was given little time to build and test it. But the IH-Rossi-built one worked. IH admitted as much. And there are no contemporaneous emails or test reports that state otherwise.


    IHFB - you have no curiosity and would never make a scientist. You think a test (undoubtedly recommended by Rossi and Fabioni, probably set up by them) showing COP=9 means a reactor works? The evidence of Rossi's tests, even when checked by 6 high-powered academics, giving lagre false positives is legendary. You suddenly seem to have an exaggerated respect for IH competence in the one area they (real estate VCs) were particularly weak. You think Dameron was able to debug Rossi's false positives?


    Call IH, in retrospect, careless and over-trusting, sure. Calling Darden a forsworn liar on the assumption that IH were more technically adept than 6 Profs is stupid and unjust.

  • He would have the entire LENR+ community in his corner evangelizing for him. And even if he never sold a single reactor in the open market, he would become very wealthy, from speaking engagements alone.

    I do not think Rossi needs prophets ...... Better if he finds partners or investors, but no one would join his business if he reveals his secrets to the MFMP. I'm sorry IHFanboy, I will never catch this idea!

  • forgive my ignorance, but wasn't 10 million smackeroos the reward for handing over

    HOW TO START IT ?

    PIH, you entered in a speech without understanding it. We were talking about the possibility of giving the E-Cat to a group of scientists or experts, such as MFMP, not to IH. IH people already had enough time to study the reactor and I'm sure they will not need a second more .....

  • But notice that the Rossi followers never address the obvious question about IP transfer he was paid for.

    I have expressed my opinion on this issue many times. I think that IH has received the necessary information to replicate the E-Cat and has in fact had positive results. Then they preferred to transfer this information to other members of their portfolio, probably less demanding than Rossi regarding the final payment.

  • We are getting off topic but.....it doesn't look like Ni is working (as per Me346, Rossi, ....) might be best to invest in Palladium. Try the ETF ticker PALL YTD up 21% . Seems to be going up ever since the Tex Tech/Gate rumors. ....

    Ni is much more a common metal then Palladium. All precious metal go up when there is difficult times in Economy so before making conclusions it would be nice to make a correlation plot of Palladium price vs Gold price in order to see if there is a correlation.

  • PIH, you entered in a speech without understanding it. We were talking about the possibility of giving the E-Cat to a group of scientists or experts, such as MFMP, not to IH. IH people already had enough time to study the reactor and I'm sure they will not need a second more .....

    This is a typical Rossc excuse. MFMP has demonstrated that they can be quite discrete without even revealing the identity of the inventor or any secrets. This type of excuse making has allowed AR's scams to run unabated for years. There are no excuses for not submitting to a proper test. If you don't, any potential investors would be wise to conclude it doesn't work.


    That should be the default assumption: it doesn't work until it can be demonstrated empirically that it does. The next assumption should be that any results showing excess heating are wrong and all efforts made to disprove any apparently positive results. A real phenomenon will persist despite any and all efforts to disprove it.

  • I have expressed my opinion on this issue many times. I think that IH has received the necessary information to replicate the E-Cat and has in fact had positive results. Then they preferred to transfer this information to other members of their portfolio, probably less demanding than Rossi regarding the final payment.

    There is no credible or repeatable empirical evidence of LENR occurring with nickel-hydrogen. You have no legs to stand on other than suspicion and conspiracy theory. The data support IH's claim that AR did not transfer the IP--almost certainly because there is no IP to transfer. It doesn't work. It never has, and there is not a shred of good empirical evidence showing otherwise.

  • IHFB - you weren't there and you continue to not have the slightest clue what you are posting about. Nothing of Rossi's has worked in the IH era.

    I know this is hard for you to accept but the empty reactor had the same performance as the loaded reactor on a side-by-side basis.


    And yet IH pressed forward, later landing tens of millions of investment with Woodford, with Rossi's tech core to that investment? Bullocks.

  • I do not think Rossi needs prophets ...... Better if he finds partners or investors, but no one would join his business if he reveals his secrets to the MFMP. I'm sorry IHFanboy, I will never catch this idea!


    I said nothing of prophets. Have it your way and Rossi / Leonardo could very well languish for another 10 years. Be more open to the one group (LENR+ community) that could catapult Rossi to success, and get it to mass market in less than 5.