Rossi vs. Darden developments [CASE CLOSED]

Quote from maryyugo

The reasons had ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with the facts of whether or not the ecat worked.

As far as I know what is defined as sociopath paranoid personality is characterized by the continuous distortion of reality in favor of his own vision of the world.

In reality Mary nobody of us knows the details and the motivation of this settlement.

We will have to wait an eventual press conference if there will be one.

I think that yours are speculations because this type of conclusions in which Rossi is not destroyed and IH will pay something (but probably not all) is in contrast with your peculiar vision of the world.

Edited to remove attempted doxxing. Eric

Quote from maryyugo

@Shane All the Abdominable Abd knows is that the suit was settled between the parties. He has, thus far, and by his own admission, no information beyond that

I know the two parties somewhat. I have met the people at I.H. I think we can rule out some things. For example, it is extremely unlikely I.H. agreed to pay $267 million, or even $89 million. I doubt they paid anything. Whether they gave back the intellectual property I cannot say, but who would do that unless Rossi refunds the $10 million? I doubt he has that much money.

What I am saying is that people do not settle lawsuits unless the settlement costs much less than it would cost to lose the case outright. So we can rule out many scenarios.

Also, the evidence against Rossi was pretty damning by most people's standards. I suppose Rossi's lawyers must have seen that, even if he could not.

Quote from Rends

I can't find a scenario where Darden et.al could book the singing of this settlement as a victory!

Me to.

My own opinion (I do not pretend to know the Truth) Is that the actual documents in the the trial were so that the probability for Darden and co to lose and have to pay much more was not negligible .

In fact here (an almost Pro IH Forum ) we have discussed a "Fanta Trial" just partially based on the documents. Most of what was written here was inspired by IH. But reality is more hard then Fantasy.

Quote from JedRothwell

There is one big difference. If I understand the lawyers here, in a civil suit the judge insists the case be dismissed "with prejudice." That means neither side can file suit over this Agreement or any other involved in the case. There is no longer any danger that Rossi will demand $267 million, or that he might actually get that kind of money because gullible jurors believe his lies. I doubt there is anything more he can do to hurt I.H., or to force them to spend millions on legal defense.

I regret that Rossi did not get his comeuppance. But, more than that, I am relieved he can no longer harm I.H. I expect he will go to Europe and fleece a new group of people. That's terrible. I hate to see more people hurt, and I hate that he will continue to harm the reputation of cold fusion.

Aside from the legal protection against another lawsuit, the only good thing that came out of the trial are the papers in the docket proving that Rossi is a fraud and that his test was ridiculous, such as the Penon report. That information was not worth the $5 million I.H. reportedly had to pay their lawyers. But it is worth something. Perhaps it will prevent Rossi from fleecing his next victims. Unfortunately, I doubt it will. Even if the trial had run to its conclusion, and Rossi had been found guilty, people on Planet Rossi would remain loyal to him, ready to believe whatever he says. If the Penon report and the depositions from Smith and Murray do not convince them he is a fraud, nothing will.

I dunno, Jed. I don't think Rossi stands much chance of succeeding in scamming others in Europe with his E-Catty/E-Quirky LENR+.

I don't think he has any intention of going back to Italy. Sweden is the obvious target, but his reputation is now 'on the brink'. It's either put up or shut up in terms of getting actual money from others.

Of course, he could fund his own research by selling off a condo or two a year.

IH ended up footing the bill for a massive publicly available due diligence background check on Rossi to the tune of 8 figures (assuming Abd is right about the settlement, which I think is likely).

As an example, how many funders will support Rossi if he tries to promote his stuff using:

1. Three-phase power input
2. Demonstrations or tests with no control
3. Calorimetry with IR camera
4. Calorimetry involving water with phase change
5. Analysis of ash without strong chain-of-custody sample oversight
6. Measurements where single point failures/errors could go undetected

Of course, on the flip side, we know Dott. Rossi has learned at least one thing from P.T. Barnum. So, the Dottore may yet have a few tricks up his sleeve.

But I almost feel that if he can still swindle others using these techniques, it's like he's earned his keep, because any such funder would have ignored all the red lights and sirens screaming 'watch out'!

So I'm optimistic that this fiasco did expose enough truth for all with money to risk to beware.

Regarding his cult status (like at ECW), I'm afraid that's going to be around for a long, long time.

Quote from JedRothwell

I know the two parties somewhat.

Jed you pretend to know everything but very rarely you give any proof.

Quote from JedRothwell

Also, the evidence against Rossi was pretty damning by most people's standards

This is just your own (biased) opinion. If that was the case there was no reason for IH to sattle. Just go on and win acquiring all properties of Rossi.

Trials are not done by "most people standards" on a forum. Trials are done on documents and if IH had a clearly winning position as you say there was no reason to settle. In the contrary is a reasonable hypothesis that even if Rossi had a clearly winning position was much more reasonable for him to settle because he has much less means then IH.

We will wait and see.

Quote from sigmoidal

I dunno, Jed. I don't think Rossi stands much chance of succeeding in scamming others in Europe with his E-Catty/E-Quirk LENR+.

I hope you are right.

Quote from sigmoidal

I don't think he has any intention of going back to Italy. Sweden is the obvious target, but his reputation is now 'on the brink'. It's either put up or shut up in terms of getting actual money from others.

Yes, I have heard he plans to scam people in Sweden. His reputation has been "on the brink" for years -- decades even -- but that has not stopped him.

Quote from sigmoidal

Sweden is the obvious target, but his reputation is now 'on the brink'.

Did you think so? Is quite notorious that research is going on in Sweeden payed by Industry and also approved by University. So I don't think that Rossi reputation is to bad over there. I presume that real professionals don't read Forums and Blogs and judge on facts they know without looking at the FUD.

Quote from sigmoidal

As an example, how many funders will support Rossi if he tries to promote his stuff using:
Three-phase power input
Demonstrations or tests with no control
Calorimetry with IR camera
Calorimetry involving water with phase change
Analysis of ash without strong chain-of-custody sample oversight
Measurements where single point failures/errors could go undetected

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A nice example of FUD.

Should I remind you that e.g. IH has done his own test before signing the contract ?

It was not a Rossi demonstration but a test done by IH.

Also :

Many industrial plants use three phase ( much better covering of IV plane)

You can use a phase change calorimentry in a safe way just condensing all steam after as Rossi has also done in many experiments.

IR calorimetry is a well known technique used even in Medicine

When ashes were analyzed the sample was taken by the authors (Lugano Paper).

A team of experts can analyse any setup and detect critical poins.

BTW The ERV and the Lugano Professors used their own instruments and measurement setup.

Quote from ele

I know the two parties somewhat.

Jed you pretend to know everything but very rarely you give any proof.

There is proof in the deposition from Murray.

You saw proof that I was familiar with Penon's data. I described some of it accurately before the Penon report was made public.

Quote from maryyugo

@Shane All the Abdominable Abd knows is that the suit was settled between the parties. He has, thus far, and by his own admission, no information beyond that other than his ever so sublime, mystical psychic readings of the parties and their facial expressions! Seems to me, you have over-read and over-concluded during this entire Rossi fiasco and probably learned very little from it. For example, I bet you still think something that works (makes lots of power from LENR) will come out of IH's spending or rather senseless and brainless squandering, without adequate safeguards, of lots and lots of Other People's Money (OPM).

Ok, but here's why I give Abd's speculation a lot of credence:

His description of the sequence of events (and he was there) was that the no-nonsense judge was behaving like another day of trial was going to happen: she begrudgingly gave time to Rossi's lawyer for a 15 minute recess, telling him to 'make it fast'. When apparently IH and Rossi had agreed to terms in that short time but the jury was coming in to sit for the day, Rossi's lawyer tries to interrupt (because he knows the jury is not needed) but the Judge did not allow it (because she presumably believes the trial is starting another day). The lawyer then asks for time with the judge and IH (another 15 minutes). The judge comes out and dismisses the jury. Then the 3rd party lawyers come in. Then the case gets dismissed.

So the strength of Abd's evidence, to me, is that this all happened 1) unexpectedly, and 2) quickly.

From this, Abd concludes that it is likely that the agreement had to be simple, because there was no time to negotiate any complex agreement.

I think that is a strong argument. Obviously, it's still speculation, but it makes a lot of sense to me that the agreement was: both parties drop all charges and pay for all of their own incurred legal costs.

I think that Rossi was going to get eviscerated in this trial, and his smarter, trial lawyer Lukacs knew it (not like bull-dog Annesser or ramblin' Chaiken, with temperments to match). And I don't think Rossi was very comfortable in this uncontrolled court environment, either.

So by dropping everything, Rossi no longer is at risk for further loss of reputation and/or perjury, payment of IH court fees, and loss of the $11.5M (or any Condos).

IH is no longer at risk for any loss of $89M (X 3??) or Rossi court fees, and had already achieved enough 'vetting' of Rossi, so that an expensive trial gained little.

And since the ruling is 'with prejudice', it's forever (as regards this contract).

I'd bet quite a few Quatloos that Abd has it right.

Quote from JedRothwell

Yes, I have heard he plans to scam people in Sweden.

Jet stop insulting. The trial is over.

In Sweden people is doing their own experiments without Rossi. So he is not scamming anyone.

You have heard that as anybody else here. Is quite a public information.

Quote from sigmoidal

And since the ruling is 'with prejudice', it's forever (as regards this contract).

Just to keep the sources of information straight --

Abd only speculated that it is with prejudice, but the lawyers here say that civil case settlements are always with prejudice. I guess the judge approves the settlement, and the judge does not want to see either of you again. Good bye!

@Jed

While it would have been nice to see Rossi brought to justice it is not the job of IH to do that or pay for it.

Their job was to invest aka "throw some money" at Rossi to discover what he had, and when it turned out to be a pile of poo to extricate themselves as gracefully as possible.

Unfortunately the poo exploded into a shit storm.

I think it has already been suggested by others that the only value that the IP has now for IH is a protection in case they actually stumble over a working LENR device and Rossi comes after them for a share of the money.

I am less optimistic after all this that IH have the wherewithall to find what they are looking for. But who knows?

Quote from sigmoidal

I think that Rossi was going to get eviscerated in this trial,

If that was true there was no reason for IH to settle.......

What you write was probably your desire and not part of the reality.

Also all speculation about settlement being quick are nonsense. We can't know if there were private contact and discussions among the two teams.

Quote from sigmoidal

Regarding his cult status (like at ECW), I'm afraid that's going to be around for a long, long time.

This prediction was was so ele-mental that I'm not sure it was necessary to write.

And lo! It was shortly confirmed forth-with.

Quote from ele

So he is not scamming anyone.

You have heard that as anybody else here.

Anything Rossi does is scamming, by definition. That is his only skill. That's what he does, as the scorpion said in the parable. I heard the news that he has lined up a new set of victims from Rossi himself. He bragged about it to Lewan.

You should give him your money. See how it feels! You would be singing a different tune in a few years.

Quote from JedRothwell

There is proof in the deposition from Murray.

You saw proof that I was familiar with Penon's data. I described some of it accurately before the Penon report was made public.

Murray deposition was only one of a huge amount of documents.

Is very anomalous that you gained access to reserved data before it was public, and anyway even if you described part of it it does not mean that the ERV report was not valid.