Rossi vs. Darden developments [CASE CLOSED]

Dear THH,

You seem to be scientifically- technically educated and knowledgeable so

it is nice to discuss with you

I may hope that you do not swallow absolute crazy things as half full pipes and 40mm diameter steam pipe- it is a well calculated pipe, believe me.

Where is your fatal error here: The ERV data ae not invented they are based on recorded, verifiable at the time when obtained INSTRUMENT READINGS and Jed et Co have put the set of logically consistent data in doubt.

He denied the [1500kg/h-103 C steam] data and replaced them with [600 kg/h 103C water] It is the same as going with a policeman in your car, the speedometer shows the legal 80 km/hr but the policeman says actually you went with135 km/hr and you hve to pay a fine. Or your bathroom scale shows 80 km but your wife says you are 140 kg obese guy and divorces (Arthur C Clarke had a saying with honesty and zero on bathroom scale)

The IH people have seen the readings for a long year.

How can you convince a pretty standard flowmeter to read all the time 4 times more kg/h than real?

Then Jed makes he childish blunder to invoke testimony of visitors in the plant who were able to see that the readings are quadrupled he told but only now about more witnesses.

About tempeatures- water goes through the ECats- do you know how high was the temperature of the core?

OK, I have a blog to write see you tomorrow.

peter

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In stationary condition (i.e. input power = output power, temperatures are fixed) and object with low emissivity must have a temperature higher than an object (with same shape) but with hi emissivity in order to emit the same power.

No, that was not agreed unless the object is a black body, or you qualify the comment to make clear that you mean total emissivity and not band emissivity. You agreed this, because at the time you did not seem to realise that spectral emissivity is a characteristic of materials and given non-uniform spectral emissivity you cannot assume band emissivity and total emissivity are the same.

I'll try to answer your questions Peter.

Quote from Peter Gluck

Dear THH,

You seem to be scientifically- technically educated and knowledgeable so

it is nice to discuss with you

I may hope that you do not swallow absolute crazy things as half full pipes and 40mm diameter steam pipe- it is a well calculated pipe, believe me.

I remain neutral on those issues. If I had to guess I'd say the pipe size was most likely correct. But, given Rossi's previous bad setups, I would not be very surprised if it were wrong. The same with half-full pipe except I think that likelier both on the specific evidence Jed claims (which is stronger) and because it is a less obvious mistake to make.

Quote

Where is your fatal error here: The ERV data ae not invented they are based on recorded, verifiable at the time when obtained INSTRUMENT READINGS and Jed et Co have put the set of logically consistent data in doubt.

He denied the [1500kg/h-103 C steam] data and replaced them with [600 kg/h 103C water] It is the same as going with a policeman in your car, the speedometer shows the legal 80 km/hr but the policeman says actually you went with135 km/hr and you hve to pay a fine. Or your bathroom scale shows 80 km but your wife says you are 140 kg obese guy and divorces (Arthur C Clarke had a saying with honesty and zero on bathroom scale)

The IH people have seen the readings for a long year.

How can you convince a pretty standard flowmeter to read all the time 4 times more kg/h than real?

So the issue here is whether validated readings from a flowmeter could over-read by 4X. That would be very easy if both of:

• It was an impellor-style flowmeter
• It was in a quarter-full pipe (or it was subject to an oscillating flow)

We know that it was an impellor-style flowmeter. Jed claims the second point, and I have no evidence this flowmeter was in a full pipe. Do you have that evidence? If so, it would be great to hear it.

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Then Jed makes he childish blunder to invoke testimony of visitors in the plant who were able to see that the readings are quadrupled he told but only now about more witnesses.

I'm not sure i understand that point.

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About tempeatures- water goes through the ECats- do you know how high was the temperature of the core?

No I do not. but I can say that however high was the temperature of the core it makes no difference to the issue of whether there is water phase change.

I can assure you Peter from practical experience the empellor type flow meter most certainly can be fooled into overstating flow by 4 times, indeed I've seen nearly 10 times with one badly placed device. All in takes is placement where air can occupy the pipe such as an outflow or where a syphon effect can occur. Please just accept this as fact.

THH

admit please that with no Diagram piping of the Plant known these problems are not solvable.

However long term spofing f the poor flowmeter and watrnot steam are not credible with a rational scheme.

Who will put a flowmeter above te reservoir, its place is down under after the pump.

What do you think why the IH supporters here do not want the diagram shown as they do not wanted the ERV report shown? Why they like info-chaos?

I do not want/wait the smallest reward from Rossi but I do not like when engineering is humiliated by people who discoveed bad things about Rossi and the plant only when Rossi asked for his money on the basis of a valid contract.

I have real experience with similar thngs when you see the partner not OK, you start the 'divorce' with no delay.

peter

rb0 ,

Page 70 shows a reflective metal can. The emissivity sticker in this case is primarily used to prevent reflection of the cooler surroundings towards the camera.

Reflectivity of IR wavelengths is not a strong property of alumina cement.

If one were to wrap the reflective can entirely in a non-reflective sticker of 0.45 emissivity, and have a constant internal heat source before and after wrapping, would the can be cooler or hotter with the 0.45 emissivity wrapping? With a 0.95 emissivity wrapping?

Quote from Malcolm Lear

I can assure you Peter from practical experience the empellor type flow meter most certainly can be fooled into overstating flow by 4 times, indeed I've seen nearly 10 times with one badly placed device. All in takes is placement where air can occupy the pipe such as an outflow or where a syphon effect can occur. Please just accept this as fact.

I have worked with flowmeters some 40 years, gas and liquid. So please send me technical details to [email protected]

Has no vistor remarked the meter is in bad place? Do you have the real diagram? (Y/N)

I think we must be responsible and accountable for what we say here too. It exists a Goddess of Technology

peter

Peter also ask yourself how Penon reported more electrical energy going into the reactor than was being supplied from the utility company FPL?

rb0 ,

Perhaps a more interesting question is: if it is not reflectivity that reduces the integrated total emissivity of alumina to around 0.45 at high temperatures (say > 800 C), then what property of alumina is the cause for such a low total emissivity? For alumina thicker than a mm, it is not the transparency.

Quote from Malcolm Lear

Peter also ask yourself how Penon reported more electrical energy going into the reactor than was being supplied from the utility company FPL?

The crab is a little red fish that goes bckwards- it was Fabiani not Penon, he reported less not more (normal energy is used for other actions too) and this issue is in Court already.

WTF should he report a greater denominator of COP ratio?

re you searching for vulnerabilities of the Plant?

peter

Peter I have no knowledge of placement or diagrams of Rossi's installation (you should ask him that), only that if installed incorrectly they can overstate flow by volume. The impellor rotates by rate of fluid flow and will typically rotate at the same rate no matter whether the pipe/meter is full or partially full. the bottom line is that installation must be done correctly.

Yes, Peter the documents are indeed in the court and show more energy being used by the reactor than supplied by the provider FPL. Please read the documents carefully. There are 4 set of figures in the docket for energy, FPL, Penons, Fabiani's and those in the final report. The figures in the final report match Penons, not Fabiani's.

TH,

You are correct, all of the "data" has been compromised, so the last 6+ years boil down to this:

Do you believe that Andrea Rossi has developed a product, (Ecat), that produces Energy Out > Energy In.

Btw, obviously the question is rhetorical.

Quote from Malcolm Lear

Yes, Peter the documents are indeed in the court and show more energy being used by the reactor than supplied by the provider FPL. Please read the documents carefully.

Indeed. The FLP usage declined below Plant consumption for around two weeks in one case, apparently predicting a Tiger failure.

Quote from Malcolm Lear

Peter also ask yourself how Penon reported more electrical energy going into the reactor than was being supplied from the utility company FPL?

I actually see a fairly tight correlation between FPL data and power fluctuations in the ERV data. There is weirdness in the latter part of November, which would need to be explained. First up would be the smart meter transmissions, which can be unreliable.

BRILLIANT IHFB!!!!!! What took you so long???? Oh wait...... certified and calibrated measuring devices..................

IHF what reference can you give for smart meters being unreliable?

" A recent study by an independent testing group found that 99.91 percent of smart meters were accurate within 0.5 percent. In fact, the study found that smart meters were more accurate than the mechanical meters they replaced. In addition, smart meter groups are continuously tested and monitored by your electric company to ensure they are operating correctly. "

Edison Electric Institute, "Smart Meters and Smart Meter Systems: A Metering Industry Perspective," March
2011.

By what process do you propose that would cause a digital smart meter to be incorrect during a 2 week period and not incorrect during all the other times. Normally any incorrect readings would be due to a calibration error (but only less than a 0.9% chance) and would be over the entire time period.

I find it much more likely that Penon's data is incorrect.

If we presume that the weekly up-down cycles are some sort of mundane human comfort usage, then the two week FPL supply drop falling below the Plant consumption is by a significant amount.

Then explaining why humans want no comfort in the warehouse on Saturdays is a minor detail.

Maybe the meter took weekends off as well.

I am glad to see that IHFB is interested in certified and calibrated measuring instruments along with reliable and sound data connections

but just remembered that there are no mirrors on Planet Rossi. Hate it when that happens.

@Dewey,

If it makes you feel better, I'm quite interested in seeing all of the evidence for certified and calibrated measuring instruments. Why wouldn't we want that? What I'm not so interested in is hearsay from Jed about this or that, and associated bluffs.