Rossi vs. Darden developments - Part 2

  • @Shane D.


    I'm actually impressed by Darden's initial depth of understanding and perception of the situation, and it shows me he was sincere, at least initially. I think by February of 2016 he was panicking. He made an apparently miscalculated (and probably rushed) decision to bring in the Israelis in an attempt to underhandedly influence Levi, and possibly others. What I keep going to in my mind: why did Darden feel that it was necessary to go to such lengths if IH was as confident about their position as Dewey makes it seem. Why would Darden have to go to such lengths if there was nothing of interest here? There is something very fishy going on here, and we haven't seen the bottom of it yet.


    I think all in all it points to there be something very important at the heart of this story: i.e., that the e-Cat probably works to some degree. Maybe not at 50 COP. But the IH folks have not pulled out all of the stops--for nothing.

  • Peter Gluck ,

    The portion of photo I used is of the Doral plant, while operating. Another photo submitted at the same time, in the same document, has the filthy water hoses at the 24 pump end. (Those hoses were clean in March).

    I am unaware of any other photos of the Doral plant that show the supposed steam and water pipes to the Customer area. Note that these pipes are absent (even the hole for the lower pipe is not there/been made) in the Exhibit 26 photo of the warehouse.

  • Can't help but wonder now after these new document dumps, if Dewey had another reason to publicly say here that IH will go forward *without* NiH on the agenda. They (documents) show IH was clearly up to their armpits in NiH -including their own small successes and a few big bangs!, and all of a sudden they are not interested...I do not buy it. The timing alone is just too coincidental.


    Not trying to start another conspiracy...we have enough of that as is, especially now with the addition of the Zionist connection :) , but merely pointing out that the lawsuit may have influenced IH's decision only for the time being, and could change back after this suit is over.


    So perhaps this talk of switching the focus of LENR to the possible commercial benefits of PdH, and deemphasizing NiH, based on Dewey's one comment, may be a bit premature.


    I don't think we should make too much of any one email regardless what side it is from. Context is everything. For example, there were probably many emails before and after this one. However, I tend to feel the same way you do on this, but for another reason. I'm convinced NiH works and works well. This is my personal conclusion, and I understand other people have their own. Since NiH can be made to work well -- if you have gained the practical knowledge and know how after long periods of testing -- I can't help but agree that Rossi's lawsuit was a factor (perhaps not the only one) in this change of mindset. Regardless of the level of excess heat they may have or may not have been producing, I'm sure that any exaggerations or misrepresentations from Rossi really ticked them off. The lawsuit then took this to another level.


    I think it is critical we learn to separate the E-Cat technology (as a whole) from all the drama around the Doral test and the resulting lawsuit.

  • Peter Gluck ,

    The portion of photo I used is of the Doral plant, while operating. Another photo submitted at the same time, in the same document, has the filthy water hoses at the 24 pump end. (Those hoses were clean in March).

    I am unaware of any other photos of the Doral plant that show the supposed steam and water pipes to the Customer area. Note that these pipes are absent (even the hole for the lower pipe is not there/been made) in the Exhibit 26 photo of the warehouse.

    Dear Para,


    what I told you is elementary engineering, steam comes from the ECat is "cumulated" and then goes into that overdiscussed pipe.

    We have to wait.

    peter

  • The Court seems to have come to the conclusion that JMP was Rossi (emphasis added)


    "

    THE COURT: okay. I'm only going to allow you to get


    18 the communications regarding the E-Cat testing, not all


    19 communications between them. I find that it's not relevant,


    20 there's no showing that they were anything but independent. You


    21 know, in the other area you're able to come to me and show me


    22 that Rossi was -- you know, this company was actually Rossi.


    23 Here, you know, you're talking about five people who are, you


    24 know, respected people."


  • Anyways, the whole alumina-emissivity question is a waste of time.


    Simply make a nice, easy to measure tube of 100% alumina glowing hot, no fuel (empty even), use the Lugano emissivity method (total emissivity for both the IR camera and radiant power calculations), and make a bogus "COP" of 3+.

  • Anyways, the whole alumina-emissivity question is a waste of time.


    Simply make a nice, easy to measure tube of 100% alumina glowing hot, no fuel (empty even), use the Lugano emissivity method (total emissivity for both the IR camera and radiant power calculations), and make a bogus "COP" of 3+.

    put the alumina tube inside a steel tube with know emistivity then do the IR. Oh and do a calibration run at the same temp

  • There were earlier tests performed with hot cat reactors inside of stainless steel tubes. These seemed to show excess heat. There were reports written about them. And from what I remember Rossi posting somewhere, after one stunning melt down in which a reactor went from 1000C to 2000C in seconds and melted the ceramic, the professors asked him to reduce the power output (I'm guessing adjust the formula) so they would be more stable.

  • put the alumina tube inside a steel tube with know emistivity then do the IR. Oh and do a calibration run at the same temp


    More complicated than required.

    If a pure alumina rod can make the same IR-based "COP" as the Lugano device, then the "reaction", "fuel", etc. are moot.

    I started with making null devices, to understand what the null should look like so that I could more easily recognize real excess heat when it appeared.

    That was as far as I needed to go. As soon as I started with the IR, the problem was immediately evident.

    I could make a fake COP of 3 with an 8 cm square of alumina.


    I have a hard time stomaching all the Lugano fuel experiments when almost no one actually tried the IR method for more than a few minutes (MFMP), when simply doing the IR test as described in the Lugano report would clearly blow a huge hole in the whole Lugano hypothesis.

  • I still don't understand why Rossi is bring up Lugano. Its working or not working doesn't seem to be relevant to his case against IH. I also don't understand the relevance of IH talking to some professor elsewhere. I don't think they had anything to do with Doral or any testing in NC. The case is not if Rossi ever saw excess, it is about if Doral was the GPT and if that gave excess heat at the levels and length of times agreed to.


    It reminds me of a magician that says "look over there " or " look here". People can go around and around about emissivity and desires for Nobel prizes but that doesn't have any effect on what happened in Doral in 2015-2016.

  • @oldguy


    I actually think it is odd as well. Both Rossi and IH are putting great emphasis on the tests leading up to Doral. Darden apparently even felt it was necessary to try and influence that narrative, in what appears like an attempt to tamper with a potential witness. I think Darden felt like he needed to discredit those earlier tests, and the professors involved, to place IH in a stronger position before a jury with respect to the Doral test. And so it looks like he went about using his means and influence to do that.

  • I'm actually impressed by Darden's initial depth of understanding and perception of the situation, and it shows me he was sincere, at least initially. I think by February of 2016 he was panicking. He made an apparently miscalculated (and probably rushed) decision to bring in the Israelis in an attempt to underhandedly influence Levi, and possibly others. What I keep going to in my mind: why did Darden feel that it was necessary to go to such lengths if IH was as confident about their position as Dewey makes it seem. Why would Darden have to go to such lengths if there was nothing of interest here? There is something very fishy going on here, and we haven't seen the bottom of it yet.

    I think all in all it points to there be something very important at the heart of this story: i.e., that the e-Cat probably works to some degree. Maybe not at 50 COP. But the IH folks have not pulled out all of the stops--for nothing.


    IHFB,


    I think a lot of us can agree with what you said. Welcome to the club!

  • oldguy ,

    It is the ace in the hole if the GPT succeeds in estoppel. IE: Even if the Doral Test was the GPT, it doesn't matter because it did not possibly perform as suggested if the reactors don't actually work.

    IH probably also wants to know if any of these professors that supported a device that IH itself cannot operate is complicit in any sort of scheme, or if they are truly independent.

    So far they all seem to be independent.

    I don't know if Levi was actually threatened, but it was probably creepy and after years of harassment by crazy debunkers and supporters, got him worried. He was cautions enough to take photos. Using the word 'FUD', he demonstrates a suspicious characteristic, and possibly some reading of blogs, etc.

    I don't suppose any of the Professors like being blabbed about on blogs, etc. while they almost always avoid any response.

  • I believe this alleged event occurred before the lawsuit was filed, so the people were not "potential witnesses" to anything. You cannot tamper with a witness when there is no trial.


    It appears that the alleged scheme was initiated in February, 2016, prior to the filing of the lawsuit, but then continued to play out well into 2016, after the lawsuit was filed. See Levi's sworn declaration.

  • OG,


    On top of what Paradigmnoia said, in one of his case submissions Rossi accused IH of being incompetent, as they had been unsuccessful in replicating his tech, where the "Royal Academy of Sciences (Nobel dudes)", or who we know as the Lugano profs, were successful. The implications being that if they could not do that right, they are a bunch of bumbling idiots not to be trusted with things, say...like the GPT.


    Also, part of IH's counter suit claims Rossi did not give them a working technology they paid $10 million for, making their patents they bought the rights to -worthless. If Rossi could convince a jury, or judge, that Lugano...er I mean the Nobel team, proved that one of Rossi's techs worked in overunity, IH's claims were meritless, and their request for their money back would be denied.

  • Rossi accused IH of being incompetent, as they had been unsuccessful in replicating his tech, where the "Royal Academy of Sciences (Nobel dudes)", or who we understand as the Lugano profs, were successful. The implications being that if they could not do that right, they are a bunch of bumbling idiots not to be trusted with things, say...like the GPT


    ....not to be trusted with things, say...like the GPT.


    Or maybe choosing Nobel Prizes? (not just to Rossi)...

  • Judge Altonga thinks that it was a bad thing, however. Wrists were slapped.


    I don't see that, yet. Are you sure you didn't fall into the [PROPOSED] trap, of thinking this was the Court's actual ruling?


    Remember, every motion filed (by any party) MUST include the [PROPOSED] ruling that they hope to achieve. For Rossi, that is document 167-01.


    I don't see any actual court order 'slapping wrists' from either judge. Yet.


    (It's easy to miss the [PROPOSED], which has mislead many of us (including me at first).


    There is a hearing scheduled for March 14, however, and I assume they will discuss this and rule on Rossi's motion for sanctions after that.

  • In the Motion for Sanctions (167) the Plaintiff asserts :

    "Further, Weaver falsely represented that the reactor body was made from Durapot 810, as opposed to pure alumina."


    When in the transcript (167.08) it reports:

    "

    HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL PORTIONS- ATTORNEYS' EYES ONLY


    Page 249


    1 Q. Then you wrote: "As you may know, the


    2 plug results came back 99 percent pure alumina and


    3 did not match the reactor body, which was made from


    4 Durapot 8 10. 


    5 How did you learn that?


    6 A. Because I have the can that it was made


    7 from and I talked to the person that made them.


    8 Q. And who is that?


    9 A. T. Barker Dameron.


    10 Q. So T. Barker Dameron made the reactor


    11 body?


    12 A. Yes. And we have -- we still have some


    13 of this Durapot 8 10.

    .........................


    From the WO2015127263 patent application we have:


    27 August 2015 (27.08.2015)

    (72) Inventors: ROSSI, Andrea; 1331 Lincoln Rd., Apt. 601,

    Miami, Florida 33139 (US). DAMERON, Thomas Barker;

    336 White Oak Rd., Raleigh, North Carolina 27609

    (US).

    [0075] In some embodiments, an optional refractory layer 18 with supports 20 are positioned


    around the resistance wires 16 to thereby hold the wires in position. As illustrated, the refractory layer


    18 has a ribbed or finned surface, which may increase heat dissipation away from the reaction


    chamber 12. It should be understood, however, that the refractory layer 18 may omit the ribbed or


    finned surface, and may instead have a smooth, rough or other surface configuration. The refractory


    layer 18 and supports 20 may be omitted in some embodiments. The refractory layer 18 may be


    formed of a thermally conductive material
    and may be electrically resistant to reduce or prevent


    shorting or arcing events. In some embodiments, the refractory layer 18, supports 20 and sealing


    members 14 are formed of an alumina base. For example, an alumina base with volume resistivity o.f


    1011 ohm-cm or better, dielectric strength of270 volts/mil or better, thermal expansion of 4.5 1O-6/defF


    or lower, and thermal conductivity of 15 BTU-in/defF-Hr-ft2 or higher, such as Durapot™ 810




    (Cotronics Corp., Brooklyn, NY (USA)), is suitable.

  • @Paradigmnoia


    A few possibilities:


    1) The reactor body (not the plugs) really was made of Durapot 8 10T, Dameron told Dewey that, and Dewey correctly stated that in his sworn testimony.


    2) The reactor body was not made of Durapot 8 10T, Dameron told Dewey a fib, and Dewey correctly stated what he thought was true in his sworn testimony.


    3) The reactor body was not made of Durapot 8 10T, Dameron told Dewey that, and Dewey unintentionally mis-spoke or did not remember correctly in his sworn testimony.


    4) The reactor body was not made of Durapot 8 10T, Dameron told Dewey that, and Dewey perjured himself in his sworn testimony.


    There might be others, but I think this captures the most likely ones.

  • I think maybe what Alan was referring to (correct me if I'm wrong Alan) is the fact that the judge denied the motion to seal, thereby opening up the alleged misdeeds for all to see.


    Except that Rossi was the one requesting the seal, and that got denied. So I don't see how that can be interpreted as 'wrist slapping' of IH?


    So please (anyone) correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I can see, there are potentially three 'incriminating' pieces of evidence against IH from this filing:


    1) Darden has an email dated 2016-02-23 sent to Uzi Sha that simply gives the addresses of: Fabiani, Rossi, Penon, JMP. (It does not provide Levi or anyone else's info).


    2) Dewey Weaver wrote an email to Bo Hoistad on 2017-02-17 with the 'incriminating' lines emphasized with underline (by Rossi's lawyers):

    Quote

    Mats also stated that the Uppsala team had no plans to revisit the Lugano report or discuss the increasingly controversial results from that test.
    ...We have also learned that the reactor was painted with an off-white high temp paint and that information is not accurately reflected in the Lugano report as well. 
    ... More information will be coming out about this in the coming months and I wanted to give you and your team a heads-up regarding any possible impact this may have on the University and / or the involved scientist.


    3) We also have the UNSWORN declaration (NOT affidavit) of Levi (contrary to IHFB's incorrect characterization of 'sworn' - though he does 'declare' in the end, this does not hold legal weight as is, I believe), that says: "It is my personal belief that Mr. [Uzi] Sha was offering to pay me in order to recant my support for the results contained in the Lugano Report." and in summary "As a result of this telephone conversation and the previous conversations... I feel harassed, threatened and coerced into doing something that I do not wish to do."


    There you have it - proof positive that "The Defendants and their agents repeatedly harassed, and attempted to bribe the Professors [Note the plural]" (as asserted in 167).


    Except that:


    There is no evidence (yet) that Darden communicated with Uzi Sha about anything, other than that he provided the contact addresses of Rossi's team - not Levi or anyone else.


    There certainly is no bribery or 'coercion' in Dewey Weaver's email to Hoistad. According to Rossi's lawyers, the really bad stuff Dewey sent to Hoistad involves characterizing Rossi's Lugano results as "increasingly controversial" and providing a heads-up that more information will be coming about the 'painted reactor'.


    The statement by Levi describes how he 'felt' and 'understood' Sha's intentions. Note that Levi does not state that Sha actually said he would give him X money, or that giving him money was specifically contingent on 'recanting' Lugano.


    And finally, this is all about Lugano, not about Raleigh, Doral, any 'GPT' etc.


    My sense is that the best Rossi can hope for is to get the Judge to look at additional emails from Darden to the Israeli lawyer Zalli Jaffe to see if there is anything incriminating in them. If there is, Rossi might score some points. If not, then I think the chances that IH is sanctioned based on this evidence is essentially zero.


    That said, I don't see why Dewey thought this was an appropriate time to send that email to Hoisted.


    And this Uzi Sha guy does seem a little creepy, so if it turns out that there is evidence that Darden 'incentivized' Sha to contact Levi, that would indicate sleaze on Darden's part. (With emphasis on the 'if'.)



  • sigmoidal ,


    Yes I think you have it. It's all a bit of a stretch and given what we know there is is no harassment, bribery, coercion etc. But it does seem to indicate that Levi is tied at the hip with Rossi, no?


    On the other hand, and I'm no lawyer, once the case started, it probably was a mistake for Dewey Weaver to contact potential witnesses outside of the discovery process. The possibility of what the plaintiffs are claiming is one reason why.


    I can't wait till June 26th when the trial starts.

  • sIG,


    Thanks for the good summation. Somehow though after reading it all, I get the impression Rossi, his lawyers, and maybe some here, feel the Lugano profs were off limits to IH. That Rossi, and Rossi alone had/has the sole right to communicate and work with them.


    However that is not the case, as IH was invested in the Lugano Hotcat, and the outcome, every bit as much as Rossi was. Both parties acknowledge the Lugano reactor was built at IH's facilities. Darden even worried that they had put it together perhaps too quickly before shipping it off to Lugano. Darden also mentioned that they wanted to have it tested there in NC, but Rossi did not want the profs having to fly back and forth.


    Being that this was a joint venture, IH had every right to contact, email, show-up on their doorstep of the profs, or whatever to discuss with them their Lugano results, methodology, clear up this or that, or even to inform them of any new developments like Dewey did. They signed onto testing in the first place, and part of their responsibility then would include answering questions as needed. Even uncomfortable ones. Of course, we know they refused from the get-go to answer any questions, choosing instead to bury their heads in the sand.


    So sorry, I have little sympathy that they felt pressured when Dewey advised them that Lugano was "increasingly controversial". It was always so, and they knew it...what cry babies.