Rossi vs. Darden developments - Part 2

  • If I read Darden's status email correctly both Rossi and Fabiani were to be present for the 3rd so called 'independent' test (Lugano) the entire time with the other professors showing up on occasion. This is getting to be too much.

    I feel fooled if it is confirmed as I defended the test based on the limited presence of Rossi's team...

    It have to be confirmed, because it is a huge, not only about the independence of the test, but even more on the ethic of the test team.

    Additionally, the reactor seems to have gained 100 grams in Lugano (even with the leads cut off), if Darden's comments are correct. I wonder if IH has an accurate weight recorded somewhere for the reactor before it left for Switzerland.

    It is an interesting remark, to be confirmed.

    If confirmed it may give credibility to some claim the reactor was painted, covered, or filled, in a way that is not reported.



    3) We also have the UNSWORN declaration (NOT affidavit) of Levi (contrary to IHFB's incorrect characterization of 'sworn' - though he does 'declare' in the end, this does not hold legal weight as is, I believe), that says: "It is my personal belief that Mr. [Uzi] Sha was offering to pay me in order to recant my support for the results contained in the Lugano Report." and in summary "As a result of this telephone conversation and the previous conversations... I feel harassed, threatened and coerced into doing something that I do not wish to do."


    I feel Levi's emotion, awkward. If I had make a so clear error, or simply be afraid to have done so, I would take such proposal differently, more like the occasion to save my honour, by confirming or correcting, my position.


    Since long I don't understand, after MFMP and many, bashed the Lugano report with credible claims, that Levi's team did not make new test with better protocol...

    If they believe in their work, they should be confident.

    If they are unsure, they should be demanding for such test...


    Maybe am I naive when I don't understand.


    2 shade of grey may apply.

  • Since long I don't understand, after MFMP and many, bashed the Lugano report with credible claims, that Levi's team did not make new test with better protocol...

    If they believe in their work, they should be confident.


    I do remember that the team of professors was supposed to make an independent replication of their work. Photos made by Parkhomov after visiting ICCF19 of a (reportedly) empty reactor ready to be tested in Bologna have been showed too.

  • I do remember that the team of professors was supposed to make an independent replication of their work. Photos made by Parkhomov after visiting ICCF19 of a (reportedly) empty reactor ready to be tested in Bologna have been showed too.


    This is a case where result selection definitely applies, since they have never formally admitted to be doing this. You can be sure that if they had clear positive results they would make this known. What we cannot know is what, if any, additional experiments they performed with negative results.

  • Quote

    Anonymous
    February 21, 2017 at 7:59 AM

    Dear Dr Andrea Rossi,


    In the reactor of Lugano the reactor was made by Durapox?

    So I guess that means that the data for caps and rods is just made up...


    Right, and amazingly when you look at the data only for the caps, it doesn't appear that there is excess heat (at least the best I can do on the stingy data release by the professors). Levi can go on about imaginary conspiracies, but can't imagine that he could have made a mistake or been scammed by AR!


    Without even going through the more technical arguments, the temperature of the diseased sealant caps (Durapox) appear to refute excess heat.

  • There were none. Unibo (at the highest levels) told all concerned 'no more talk of LENR, no cash for related equipment, stay away'.


    That's unfortunate. According to Mats Lewan and Parkhomov in April 2015 (when the news broke) they were in the process of performing calibrations, with plans of performing the loaded test in May within that year. No more news since.


    Parkhomov Reports on ICCF-19, Meeting with Lugano Testers (Who are Also Replicating) (2015-04-18)

    Parkhomov visits Levi, discuss with Hoistad and Peterson, and they have a device that they will show mid-may (2015-04-18)

    Доклад на ICCF19 А.Г. Пархомова (2015-04-18)

    ICCF19 OVER, BUT HAS ECHO AND IMPACT (2015-04-18)

    Пархомов_ICCF19_Падуя2015.pdf (2015-05-29)



  • I feel fooled if it is confirmed [that Rossi and Fabiani were present at the Lugano facility the entire time, and the professors showed up intermittently] as I defended the test based on the limited presence of Rossi's team...

    It have to be confirmed, because it is a huge, not only about the independence of the test, but even more on the ethic of the test team.


    I also think this is an important point. The Lugano test was so interesting because it appeared to be independent, and the writeup makes it out as such, describing the minimal intervention of Rossi at the beginning and end of the test, and saying that he stepped back from it for the remainder of it. But if Rossi and Fabiani were there every day, and the professors were not, this means that once more we will have had to place trust in Rossi not to interfere. Trust that we would not have afforded him at the time the report came out. Was the Lugano test for us in the peanut gallery, and do our feelings about it matter? Presumably not. But one wonders why, at any rate, it was released to the public.


    The professors were operating in the mode of researchers collaborating with other researchers on an experiment, where a great amount of trust is placed in all of the parties to be forthright. But they were dealing with a wily inventor who had up to then gone to great efforts to control the circumstances of his demos in the manner of a showman. The professors, then, if the new detail is correct, lent their name to a report that assumes the best in people, relying on the honor system when it was not warranted. That was poor judgment on their part. There were the video cameras that were running, so maybe that's something.


    Speculation: we now have Levi, seeing the Lugano test and what followed it primarily through the lense of a battle between Rossi and his erstwhile funders, strongly attached to the report's conclusions and unwilling to revisit them, and reassured in their soundness by immediate colleagues; and the Swedes, on the fence about the whole thing and hoping not to become party to a lawsuit worth millions of dollars. I know the feeling of not wanting to step into a lawsuit and can sympathize with them if this is what is going on in their heads. People I know have sued or threatened to sue one another and wanted me to do something for them, and on those occasions I have very much not wanted to get involved. This could potentially explain their silence on the report as much as anything (e.g., NDAs).

  • problems is when you call friends to buy tickets...

    I did. You can understand why recent facts leaked make me feel ... aching. (I don't say where).


    I will have to say sorry to some skeptics for my swamp-founded arguments.

    Sure, LENR works (this made me over-confident), but the most popular claims are based on swampy foundations.

    You can understand that today for me PdD is a safer harbor. Buildings are less brillant, but it is build on rock, on scientific method.

  • I still don't fully understand the insertion of the Lugano test. But I guess it has served the purpose of misdirection from the matters of GPT and the test in Doral. Perhaps that is the reason Rossi did it : forget the important stuff, look over there.

  • I still don't fully understand the insertion of the Lugano test. But I guess it has served the purpose of misdirection from the matters of GPT and the test in Doral. Perhaps that is the reason Rossi did it : forget the important stuff, look over there.


    I think it just shows that Rossi has nothing. So he's throwing 'nothing' at the wall and hoping it sticks. Who knows, maybe he'll get lucky and get a judge to review Darden's emails and find some dirt.


    That seems to be his best hope for anything from IH. Other than that, he's forced to try to hang on to limiting how much he ends up having to send to IH.


    But it must be [ahem] interesting to be a lawyer on Rossi's legal team, given his grandiose, delusional and paranoid perspective.

  • If it got to 1380 C or higher, the thermocouple should be melted, a good visual indicator.

    As I have pointed out, the color was a good visual indicator. Assuming the photo colors are not distorted, and the photos were taken when the reactor was at peak temperature, the temperature was around 950 deg C. Granted, those assumptions may be wrong, but I asked the authors about them and they never responded. I take a non-response to mean: "yes & yes, and we don't want to talk about it."


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/…e_range_550_-_1300_C).svg

  • I still don't fully understand the insertion of the Lugano test. But I guess it has served the purpose of misdirection from the matters of GPT and the test in Doral. Perhaps that is the reason Rossi did it : forget the important stuff, look over there.


    I don't really understand it either. I would much rather know whether the flow meter was installed on a downward grade gravity-fed return pipe that was only partially full, as Jed has claimed (based on things he was told).


    Bear in mind, however, that Dewey is largely responsible for insertion of the Lugano test, with his pet Durapot theory. In fact, his parting comment was on this very issue!

  • I still don't fully understand the insertion of the Lugano test. But I guess it has served the purpose of misdirection from the matters of GPT and the test in Doral. Perhaps that is the reason Rossi did it : forget the important stuff, look over there.

    If one wants to talk for pages about Lugano, Professors, emissivity, Bologna and Ferrara tests, just mention the Doral water meter.

  • I am not sure that IH thinks NiH is totally nonfunctional, only that PdD is more developed and that is what they seek to fund at this time. Even with its cost, PdD might have a few interesting commercial applications. For example remote power on top of towers where the replacement costs out way initial costs. Just not powering cities at this time.


    In other words, the word is not either or, black and white, but a range of grays.

  • @Para

    Dewey and Darden appear to be obsessed about discrediting the Lugano test. The misdirection, if there is any, is from them! I would love to have the discussion of evidence be centered on the flow meter.


    I think it is more that, for them, this was the last best proof positive that Rossi's tech worked. That is what they have been wanting to know, and have hoped against hope that in fact he did have something rapidly commercialisable. Of course they would care about whether it was a valid test or not!

  • I still don't fully understand the insertion of the Lugano test.


    Just brainstorming: perhaps the judge or magistrate hinted that there is enough information for the case to get to trial via (possible) estoppel. Also, this motion was one for sanctions for bad faith litigation. Perhaps such sanctions do not require that the topic of the bad behavior be narrowly scoped to the most legally relevant questions (e.g., there could be collateral damage resulting from or coercion related to the case even if it does not bear upon the most important claims).

  • The stupid a Doral water meter does not come standard reporting only in 1000 kg increments. (Edit: the main counter may be 1000 L)

    There are the sender (optional), typically at 100 L (kg) and even a smaller wheel, 10 L (kg)

  • That is what they have been wanting to know, and have hoped against hope that in fact he did have something rapidly commercialisable.


    Sending in some Israelis in an attempt to have the lead scientist recant the Lugano test would be a strange way to hope against hope that in fact the effect is real and commercializable (I really, really wish you English men would learn how to spell :) ).

  • Sending in some Israelis in an attempt to have the lead scientist recant the Lugano test would be a strange way to hope against hope that in fact the effect is real and commercializable (I really, really wish you English men would learn how to spell :) ).


    Indeed it would, but then there is no evidence, looking objectively, that this is what IH did. See Abd's review http://coldfusioncommunity.net/how-crazy-can-it-get/ which as always is comprehensive and insightful.

  • Indeed it would, but then there is no evidence, . . .


    I think that is a bit of a stretch. There is clear evidence of Darden forwarding contact information of many people associated with this affair directly to the very Israeli who approached Levi. Darden even mentioned he would forward more information to him via the "other" email system. If you can't see or appreciate how icky this looks, then I'm not sure I can help you. Willful blindness. Sure, you can explain it away as pure coincidence, but I think that would be a mistake.

  • Its looking more like the Judge isn't liking something else instead. 160 DENIED in almost record time. Their Rule 11 stunt went down in flames a little bit faster but this is close enough to indicate that things aren't smelling quite right from the Plaintiff's side

    down in the Miami court system. Among other things, R's attorneys were trying to seal some juicy emails from certain university folks who may now want to start thinking REALLY hard and fast about their associations with a known criminal and self-confessed liar while there is still time.


    This certainly smells like a thinly-veiled legal threat against "certain university folks".

  • @Alan,


    Yes, Dewey's conspiracy theory is far flung, and includes at this point, a coordinated effort by highly renowned scientists associated with highly renowned universities, from multiple developed countries. It gets to be more bonkers (a tip of the hat to Abd) by the day.

  • A quick cameo just to note that Planet Rossi (IHFB in particular) has never been more full of crap than now.


    The story about Darden and the Israeli folks is new to me but appears to have been a smart move with nothing happening that was the least bit improper. The truth is nowhere near what is represented by Levi and the Planet Rossi ilk. You can read the panic in Levi's writing - what a way to have your career end.

    Lets have Levi come to the US and go under oath for a chat. We can bring the Israelis as well.


    We are also seeing that the Planet Rossi threatverse can only thrive in a certain state of perceived siege. Paranoia will destroya. What a way to have to live.


    On the bright side!