Rossi vs. Darden developments [CASE CLOSED]

    @THH


    The question on the return pipe is whether the pipe was full or not with water. Was there a U in the pipe, for example. That is the question. The "trap" Barry was referring to was in the context of rust from the "big Frankies."


    And the DN40 question relates to the exit pipe from the 1 MW plant not the return pipe.


    Unfortunately, I have yet to see answers to these central issues. But I'm just barely scratching the surface of this doc dump, and I do need to get some other things done today. I'm afraid this is going to take several days to decipher.

    Quote from IH Fanboy

    Unfortunately, I have yet to see answers to these central issues.

    Unfortunately (as I have predicted) Rossi removed and "destroyed" the pipe(s).
    Ey, why would he want to do that, when he doesn't have anything to hide?


    Does it make any sense to you that Rossi didn't keep the test installation in place, when he knows that the test results will be disputed (and he has to fight for "his" 89 mill)?
    When he is sure that his plant works, why not keep everything as it is, so that he can fire it up anytime again?

    @Forty-Two


    Cites please. There is too much here to just bandy statements about without support. Barry West testified that the pipes used were brand new.


    Exhibit 207-61

    Page 144

    "23 that piping that they installed was new piping.


    24 Q. The condensate piping?


    25 A. And the steam lines, you know, at no


    Page 145

    1 pressure. That stuff was new, new materials."


    Exhibit 207-61

    Page 99

    "4 Q. I take you back to something you said just


    5 a little bit earlier. So you were talking about the


    6 pipes that were rusted, and you said they were part of


    7 the big Frankies?


    8 A. Well, it really wasn't so much the pipes,


    9 it's the actual vessel itself. The piping that went in


    10 and out, all that was new. I mean, Newcomb installed


    11 all that new."


    According to Barry, the original pipes were still used in some fashion:


    Exhibit 207-61

    "Page 140 "5 A. Yeah, all those pipes were part of the


    6 original design to pipe in the condensate tank, which


    7 was going to sit on the ground.


    8 Q. And what happened to those pipes?


    9 A. They all left up under there. We used a


    10 bunch of them fixing and repairing and carrying on. I


    11 mean, we used what pieces we could to make changes as


    12 issues arose."


    Barry was making the point that the rust came from the "big Frankies" not from the pipes.

    But again it is irrelevant whether they used the original pipes or whether they used brand new ones. We ought not to focus on inconsequential trivial issues.

    Let's see if we can determine whether the return pipe was full with water or not. That is an important issue.

    I find it interesting that IH does not seem to attack any GPT claims and lack of signature agreement and use that in the summary judgment request. Although I also notice that each time ERV or GPT was mentioned it was objected to. Sounds like they are not admitting to a GPT at this time. It might be some legal maneuver to object if/when Rossi claims that Doral was the GPT and make him prove it before accepting it into evidence. .... but I am not a lawyer.

    Quote from Bob

    I know this says "intends" to support, but I hope they have committed to you. I appreciate you posts and while open minded, show not only a good understanding of a correct approach but an appropriate caution not to jump to unfounded conclusions! A scientist in the true meaning!

    Good fortune on your automated test as well!

    Thank you for the vote of confidence, Bob. My stated goal is to find a reproducible Ni-H LENR experiment, document it and share the details for reproduction - specifically university reproduction. It is not until we get a reproducible experiment in the universities that the research needed to understand Ni-H LENR is likely to occur. Theoretical physicists need reliable and reproducible data or the field is not going to mature to practical engineering. Grad students need an experiment they can reliably build upon to build a dissertation research project. A single reproducible experiment whose protocol is fully documented and provided to everyone would legitimize the field in all sectors. This experiment doesn't have to be a Ni-H experiment, but that is where I chose to work.


    I should comment that Pd-D reproducibility has been improving and we are seeing university work there (U of Missouri, Texas Tech in the US). One of the disappointing things with Pd-D is not what Peter Gluck keeps harping about (power density and cost), but rather longevity of the experiment. If you cannot get the experiment to run for weeks and months, it is impossibly hard to find the systematic changes in the materials that could provide core clues into what is happening in the reaction. That's an important reason I chose to work on Ni-H - because of reports of long-lived experiments.


    Today, I only have a friendly relationship with IH. I share what I am doing, just as I share it with everyone else. I have not received any money or materials from IH. Actually, the future of IH's support for outside researchers depends a lot on the outcome of this trial. I get NO information about Rossi's technology from IH. The relationship has allowed me to discuss LENR subjects with some of their other research partners.

    Can we just have one photograph of the pipes on the IH side? A single one, please? Dewey has previously said that they took photographs and measurements of all of the pipes. Can we see those please? Instead, IH now say there are no photographs, and that Rossi "destroyed" the pipes. Not sure how one goes about destroying a pipe. Did he melt them down?


    194, page 10

    "Further, a condition to the testing of the 1MW Plant was that


    there be a trap line on the Output Pipe to capture any water flowing through the Pipe. Leonardo


    Dep. Ex. 9. Rossi testified that there was such a line on the Output Pipe (Leonardo Dep. 175:6-


    181:7), but there is no photograph of this line, the trap line installed by IH before the 1MW Plant


    was sent to Florida was removed (Dameron Dep. 78:11-79:14; 200:6-201:6), and of course the


    Output Pipe has now been intentionally destroyed.6"


    The allegations of spoilation seem serious. But again, why no photographs? Are we really to believe that neither Rossi nor IH ever took photographs? Or maybe there are photographs that are still hiding, or that I haven't seen yet in this huge doc dump.

    Now what reason would Rossi have to destroy the evidence? Why would he have removed all the pipes even after he started the legal proceedings? The only reason I can think of is that he is hiding something he does not want others to know. There would be no business reason to keep the pipes and sizes hidden, no trade secrets there, only a risk to his law suit.


    The evidence so far for SJ has to be uncontested facts come up in discovery. Nothing else will help. And they have limited space to make their arguments.


    While you have acted throughout as though this is some play for the public gallery in reality I'd expect IH to prioritse whatever will help them win with minimum legal fees and time.

    @Jed,


    IH refers to the "JMP container," calling it critical to the system.


    194, page 2

    "A system was set up to measure the energy input into and energy output from the 1MW


    Plant at the Doral Warehouse. Critical to this system was the measurement of the temperature of


    the heated fluid in the pipe that carried the fluid from the Plant to the JMP container (the “Output


    Pipe”)."

    Quote from IH Fanboy

    194, page 2


    "A system was set up to measure the energy input into and energy output from the 1MW


    Plant at the Doral Warehouse. Critical to this system was the measurement of the temperature of

    That would be the instruments shown in the Penon report schematic. They are outside the "customer space."


    I assume this is in response to my question about why think think there "Seems like more than a 'small radiator and fan' in the 'customer' space." The customer space played no role in the calorimetry. Rossi claimed there was a giant radiator in that space, but there was not. He claimed he took apart the radiator and used the components for other purposes the moment the test came to an end. And if you believe that, you are extremely gullible, to say the least.


    You probably do believe it!

    @Jed


    No, not correct. When IH refers to the JMP container, they are not referring to a container that is outside the "customer space." That would be nonsensical. There was something going on there. Something more than a small radiator and fan. Now, Rossi was clearly involved with the JMP ruse, the evidence shows that. The ruse is that JMP was not independent of Rossi. But that doesn't mean JMP was doing nothing. There was a large container on the JMP side (you can see the top of it on the other side of the wall in one of the only photos of that area that is currently public), and IH seems to concede that.

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