Rossi vs. Darden developments [CASE CLOSED]

    Quote from Dewey Weaver

    The Judge's quick rejection of the Spoliation filing is a head-scratcher. Powerful evidence of destroyed emails and system hardware in the doc. Perhaps she has made up her mind and doesn't intend to waste time on anything else now that the SJ filings are in the docket.

    Dewey,

    I think that was just because it was not the role of the judge. Those things are supposed to be worked out in different ways (i.e., between the attorneys and ultimately the magistrate). It may yet get new wings once addressed with the magistrate.

    Quote from Dewey Weaver

    The Judge's quick rejection of the Spoliation filing is a head-scratcher. Powerful evidence of destroyed emails and system hardware in the doc. Perhaps she has made up her mind and doesn't intend to waste time on anything else now that the SJ filings are in the docket.


    I think her decision was based on procedure and 'jurisdiction' rather than evidence. Spoliation has to do with discovery. She's like, that's O'Sullivan's job (the Magistrate), not mine. Ultimately, it's hers, but only if HE (O'Sullivan) sends it to her. (Not IH, Rossi or Third Parties). That's why she keeps stating in bold:


    No written discovery motions, including motions to compel, for protective order, or related motions for sanctions shall be filed unless the Magistrate Judge so directs at his discovery calendar.


    This is about proper channels, I believe. Ain't no way, no how any party is going to pull an end-around and file a motion like that directly to her, no matter how strong (or weak). (But hey, I'm not a lawyer, so talk to your guys for confirmation.)


    [Edit: Jack, you beat me to it! (I agree, of course)]

    • Official Post
    Quote from Dewey Weaver

    The Judge's quick rejection of the Spoliation filing is a head-scratcher. Powerful evidence of destroyed emails and system hardware in the doc. Perhaps she has made up her mind and doesn't intend to waste time on anything else now that the SJ filings are in the docket.


    Dewey,


    I have felt for some time that this judge is too swamped with complicated scientific/engineering Information, too little time, coupled with a heavy case load, to sort it all out, so decided to take the safe path bureaucratic path by passing the buck to a jury.


    She, or her clerk, started out in the very beginning, with a very impressive ruling that even Abd was wowed over, but since then has been behind the curve IMO. To be honest, she has never impressed me as she has others.


    Too bad, as this would set a very bad precedent that such an obvious hustler as Rossi, and his band of clowns, were to make it to court where it becomes a crap shoot. Too risky unfortunately for IH, and force them to settle. To be honest, I think this has been Rossi's, and his lawyers, strategy all along.

    207-35 , page 2: an email form Darden from July 3 2014 seems to imply that he knew that when Rossi's proposal to have the plant run in Florida was a test.


    So what was the point of IH denying that they knew it was going to be a test? Seems like a waste of everyone's energy.




    207-44: Rossi wanting to buy 10 kg platinum sponge on behalf of the "customer".


    Was Rossi running a process on the "customer" side?

    Quote from LENR Calender

    207-35 , page 2: an email form Darden from July 3 2014 seems to imply that he knew that when Rossi's proposal to have the plant run in Florida was a test.


    So what was the point of IH denying that they knew it was going to be a test? Seems like a waste of everyone's energy.


    Because there's tests, and then there's Guaranteed Performance Tests. If you read his deposition, he seemed pretty hopeful that Rossi was going to deliver real heat to a real customer at that time. I think his optimism had him thinking: this Rossi is weird, but if he can deliver (and I think he can), I can deal with weird. And me paying him $89 Million is peanuts once we go to production.


    But then reality set in.


    I think this also fits with why IH hasn't pressed more strongly in denying that Doral was a GPT. Under this 'theory' (really speculation), their earnest thinking back in the Fall 2014 was that if Rossi could deliver, they'd give him a pass and call it a GPT: ultimately Darden is thinking it's still a win-win. As things got flakier and flakier, (no visits, no Johnson Mathey contact, Bass's flakey business card, big expenses, etc.) they started to rethink that. It wasn't until December 2015 that the lawyers clearly stated to Rossi that this was not gonna be a GPT. In terms of the legal case, they knew they had to tell the truth and that there might be some communications on the early side of the Doral test that indicated they kind of thought of it as a test.


    (This is speculation, however.)

    Quote from LENR Calender

    207-44: Rossi wanting to buy 10 kg platinum sponge on behalf of the "customer".


    Was Rossi running a process on the "customer" side?


    We now know that the 'customer' side (JMP) was essentially empty except for another Rossi shipping container. Only this one was black and wrapped in insulation. Inside was his 'platinum sponge cooker' masterpiece. From the deposition, it consisted of some serpentine pipes (with 'heat strips/cables' - why??), two butterfly valves and who knows what else (since we have no pictures). Bass was sure it was a 'platinum sponge cooker', because that's what he was told. And he saw an invoice for Johnson Mathey platinum sponge. (He never actually saw any platinum sponge, though). He thought the platinum was put into the pipes some how. And given that he saw all these contraptions, who was he to doubt? He was a new-comer to JMP


    Two mastperpieces! An E-Cat shipping container hooked up to a platinum sponge cooker shipping container with a dividing wall down the middle in order to keep both teams in the dark. Mama mia!


    Now that is no simple con. I'm starting to agree: this was some heady kind of masterful con.


    When you step back, the whole idea that you would use 100 degree C steam to 'cook' platinum doesn't really make sense, does it? Why not use a kiln? You'd have much better process control. And it's highly unlikely that the optimum temperature for cooking platinum sponge just happens to be a roughly varying 100 degrees C.

    • Official Post
    Quote from LENR Calender

    207-35 , page 2: an email form Darden from July 3 2014 seems to imply that he knew that when Rossi's proposal to have the plant run in Florida was a test.


    So what was the point of IH denying that they knew it was going to be a test? Seems like a waste of everyone's energy.


    207-44: Rossi wanting to buy 10 kg platinum sponge on behalf of the "customer".


    Was Rossi running a process on the "customer" side?


    LC,


    Agree with the first, but your word *imply* has to be balanced out with IH's contractually convincing argument, that the GPT could not be legal for a number of reasons. One being that *all* parties had to sign the amended GPT conditions to become effective, and some purposely did not do so...for their their own reasons. Rossi elsewhere admits in an email that AEG (his old friends that were selling their shares to IH) would not sign that amendment either, contacted them about that but to no avail. So all parties seemed to purposely avoid putting their names on that new agreement, Rossi knew that, lobbied to change opinions and was unsuccessful. So he knew the gamble of going forward pretending Doral to be a legally sanctioned GPT.


    As to the 10kg Pt sponge stuff; he said a lot about all that, and much more, nothing of which he had proof of...like most of his testimony, but in the end he was his own customer (he was JMP), and claimed later to have used his own Pt he brought over from Italy, because Matthey charged too much for theirs. Probably lied about all that too.


    I think the best approach to this whole case is to assume everything Rossi says is a lie, with a few little truths (greatly exaggerated) mixed in. He does not deserve any benefit of the doubt.


    I've been studying these documents all day. I have just finished with IH's motion to dismiss and their exhibits.


    Of SEVERAL thoughts, I want to bring up TWO.


    1) It sure does seem that Rossi was not "producing" platinum sponge in the JM Products container behind the wall. The descriptions in the various documents make it seem like he had "reactors" (in the NUCLEAR sense) in the heat flow from the 1MW plant. He was literally taking a finished product (platinum sponge) and then FURTHER cooking it. However, my guess that could be totally wrong is that he thought or possibly was cooking it with NUCLEAR fire. What is especially interesting is how Andrea Rossi asked him to come up with a 5 million volt source/system that was small and compact. He then said he would need 100,000 of them.


    - Bass claims the process in the JM Products container on the other side of the wall was ENDOTHERMIC.


    - Bass claims that "energy conversion" was taking place in that container.


    - Bass claims that high voltages are needed to trigger at least some forms of the Rossi Effect (we know that just heat will work too in some setups).


    There is also a mention of Project "Beagle Bone."


    Now, my totally crazy idea here is that Rossi thought he was using some of the excess heat to not only perform endothermic chemical reactions but possibly endothermic nuclear reactions. This is just a guess and a hunch. I don't know if he really thought this. I also don't know if it worked.


    But I'm really thinking to myself (take it with a ton of salt) what he was doing in the JM Products container was an attempt at a NUCLEAR process and not purely chemical.

    2) My second thought is that we have been told over and over that the flow meter was NOT at the bottom of a "U." (Or am I wrong? Am I hallucinating? Due to this, I was expecting an exhibit including a photograph of the position of the flow meter the FIRST time IH went to the plant and took pictures soon after the lawsuit was launched before all the pipework was removed. However, no such photograph was provided. Did Rossi prevent such a photo from being taken during IH's first visit to the plant when the container was sealed?


    Rossi specifically stated, using a sockpuppet on the JONP, that the flow meter was at the bottom of a U.


    Could this have been true?

    Here is the pertinent exchange with Murray about the positioning of the flow meter. So, what we have is one of the most important pieces of information that we need to resolve whether the 1 MW plant worked or not, and we get an "I don't know" response from Murray. I mean, really? He claims to have a photograph. Why not just look at the photograph? He agrees that the flow meter was "possibly" below the pipe entrance to the 1 MW plant. And if the flow meter was below the pipe entrance to the 1 MW plant, then the pipe was full with water.


    215-3, page 236

    "·1·Q.· · Could it have been lower?

    ·2·A.· · Could the?

    ·3·Q.· · The flow meter have been lower than --

    ·4·A.· · Yeah.

    ·5·Q.· · -- the pipe entrance?

    ·6·A.· · Possibly, yeah.

    ·7·Q.· · Okay.· But you don't know one way or another?

    ·8·You're speculating?

    ·9·A.· · Yeah, just working from memory, yes.· I don't

    10·know.

    11·Q.· · Okay."


    Why neither party has produced a photograph of the flow meter / return pipe configuration is beyond me. This has been one of Jed's primary attacks. Oh wait, didn't someone mention that Jed was onsite? Jed, do you have personal knowledge of where the flow meter was located on the return pipe relative to the pipe entrance of the 1 MW plant?

    Rossi specifically stated that the input flow meter was at the bottom of a "U".


    I wonder if IH will make a stunning revelation tomorrow with a photograph taken of the flow meter when they visited the plant the first time to seal it. If they really want to show Rossi lied about the setup of the plant, this would be an ideal way.


    Yeah, it certainly looks like it was an integral part of Darden strategy to have Rossi working for free, believing it was the GPT ... when Darden himself knew all along that he NEVER intended to pay - only to get the Rossi juice and transfer it to the "portfolio". Needless to say it somewhat disappointed Woodford when this strategy failed...

    Quote from Shane D.

    LC,


    ...

    I think the best approach to this whole case is to assume everything Rossi says is a lie, with a few little truths (greatly exaggerated) mixed in. He does not deserve any benefit of the doubt.


    Well, with that preconception it certainly will be very easy to determine the "truth" .... :)

    I actually get the impression that Rossi is being brutally honest in his depositions, even knowing that some of what he says will not look too good. On the other hand, I see lots of hemming and hawing in depositions from some of the IH players (e.g., flow meter location from Murray).

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