Rossi vs. Darden developments [CASE CLOSED]


    IH Fanboy


    I don't see an issue with IH making statements that they are seeing positive results only to conclude that they could not validate Rossi's technology. Even the quote you provide from JT Vaughn says "until we have reviewed the data thoroughly and conducted tests using at least two thermal cameras to ensure the data is accurate." Initial results may be positive but upon further analysis or repetition they may be negative. There is no conflict here.


    Also remember that many of these communications are to investors and potential investors. They are trying to indicate as positive a picture as possible. If you listen in on any CC for company you will see the exact same thing. Whenever IH claims possible positive results they always provide the usual caveats about the results.


    To me what is important is that after three years they have concluded effectively that Rossi's IP as provided to them does not work and that, as you point out, Rossi has engaged in significant fraud throughout his association with IH.


    And I have to say your words belie your statement that you are neutral. Case in point is you nick and the statement you just made.

    @PM,


    I've been neutral all along. About 80% of participants here had already concluded that IH was right and Rossi was wrong prior to the latest doc dump, and had bought into IH FUD hook, line, and sinker. Aside from the JMP ruse, we now see a tremendous amount of information that refutes much of the IH FUD we have been fed for the past year. Do you not comprehend that? The evidence in support of Rossi (aside from the JMP thing) is eye-opening.


    Even if you take Murray's worse case flow rate estimation, the COP of the plant is still many multiples. Even if there was no phase change, the COP of the plant is in the multiples. There are three separate sets of data, one automated, that are essentially in agreement with each other.


    It appears that the weirdness in the FLP data can be explained in several possible ways now: Murray had two low-level guys manually key in a ton of data into a spreadsheet, which he then spot-checked. Any number of errors could have been introduced. The FLP data itself had missing data for many days, to which Murray applied smoothing algorithms. The FLP data was massaged, then massaged some more. The graph you see isn't some kind of pure data from FLP.


    And boy, that is just scratching the surface. After two days at this, I'm still just getting started. Since other things need to get done too, this effort will probably extend into weeks.

    Quote from IH Fanboy

    It appears that the weirdness in the FLP data can be explained in several possible ways now: Murray had two low-level guys manually key in a ton of data into a spreadsheet, which he then spot-checked. Any number of errors could have been introduced. The FLP data itself had missing data for many days, to which Murray applied smoothing algorithms. The FLP data was massaged, then massaged some more. The graph you see isn't some kind of pure data from FLP


    LOL. What do you think the ERV file is?

    • Official Post

    I disagree with some that say there is not enough information yet to come to a conclusion. Doing so shows a preconceived notion, a bias. That is crazy, there is more than enough released already -especially the past few days worth of documents, to form a strong opinion about this case. Especially so for former fanboys and LENR supporters as most of us are, who have closely followed the Rossi story since the beginning. In fact, at this point, with so much available to us, I would consider it strange to have NOT come to a decision of right/wrong as to Rossi, or IH.


    That said, Dewey expressed his bewilderment that this much proof of "spoilation" JD submitted to the court, did not result in the judge granting their JS. Others pointed out she may have rejected more on the procedural grounds, so we shall see. And the amount of spoliation of evidence, is indeed massive. Enough to have any case tossed when presented to the court.


    Rossi dismantled plumbing, and "repurposed" them. That should have been the end of Rossi, but so far not. Same with the fantastical heat dissipation system...it is all gone now, never to be seen. That too should be the end. If that were not enough, and so far it is not; there is Penon, Rossi, Fabiani deleting all their emails to each other, the day after the test was over. Then suspiciously Fabiani moving to Russia, Penon refusing to come onto US soil for his deposition.


    In reading, in some odd way, I think JDs biggest challenge is that there is simply too much damning evidence against Rossi. Where to start? If they start on the multiple examples of spoilation alone, they deemphasize Rossi's many lies about JMP, customer, products. Focus on the JMP Rossi lies, and forget that the conditions of the GPT were not even contractually met. Concentrate on that, and the many problems with the 1MW set-up are shoved to the background. But they have to dig in somewhere, and when they do, everyone will laser in on that and forget the rest. Tough problem as we see even here. Just think in front of a jurt.


    Speaking of the set-up; meter placement, plumbing, heat dissipation etc. I would think if the heat dissipation thing Rossi concocted would not lead to granting a JS, the revelation of the "heating strip" alone would be another case killer. Even here, that has been buried under the avalanche of damning facts. Like I said, I think there is just too much here. So why would he put a heating strip on the outtake line I think it was?

    @Shane,


    There were contractual obligations for deletions of emails after the completion of the test. As for JMP, I think it was not smart for Rossi to dismantle the heat exchanger and other piping. In some places, IH says none of it ever existed, although there is testimony elsewhere discussing pictures of it, and Rossi stating that there is a financial accounting of the parts (e.g., piping) being purchased.


    As for damning evidence, it is a matter of perspective I think. I see a rising tide of damning evidence about IH. Nearly all of what they and their surrogates have been feeding us for about one year is crumbling beneath them.


    As for the GPT, there is an amazing amount of damning evidence that everyone including IH viewed it as such, at least initially.


    The set-up is of utmost importance. The heating strips are a red herring. Look at the flow meter discussions. This whole case is going to come down to the flow meter, mark my words.


    Ouch.. You seem a bit confused today Shane! Maybe you should stick to your core competencies instead, ie long distance psychiatry and lie detection. That would surely make you feel better. :)

    Quote from IH Fanboy

    On April 7, 2016, IH said: "Industrial Heat has worked for over three years to substantiate the results claimed by Mr. Rossi from the E-Cat technology – all without success." But prior to that, JT Vaughn wrote: "After receiving the components from various suppliers, we proceeded to build the control equipment, heating elements and reactors, which we fueled. . . . They appeared to operate similarly and we believe they produced significant excess energy, though we do not want to report specific multiples until we have reviewed the data thoroughly

    They reviewed the data thoroughly and decided that their earlier conclusions were incorrect, and there was no excess heat after all. That's all there is to it. In experimental science this happens ALL THE TIME. You act as if it was evidence of double dealing or a crime, or as if there is something unethical about a careful reexamination of data. You don't know the first thing about experiments or R&D.

    Quote from JedRothwell

    They reviewed the data thoroughly and decided that their earlier conclusions were incorrect, and there was no excess heat after all. That's all there is to it. In experimental science this happens ALL THE TIME. You act as if it was evidence of double dealing or a crime, or as if there is something unethical about a careful reexamination of data. You don't know the first thing about experiments or R&D.


    Of course they did, of course they did ... Since there is absolutely no other possible explanation for this behaviour it simply must be the truth, right?

    Quote from anotherTroll

    Since there is absolutely no other possible explanation for this behaviour it simply must be the truth, right?

    There may be other possible explanations, but Penon's data speaks for itself. Anyone with knowledge of instruments can tell at a glance that it is fraudulent. So we can leave I.H. out of this discussion. Rossi himself has given you proof that his devices do not work.

    • Official Post

    IHFB,


    I would have to dig into the mountain of documents again (still not done yet too), but somewhere in there is Vaughn I think talking about how haphazardly Rossi used his thermal camera. Said something like: "he usually set the e at 1, but sometimes to .5".


    In that light, I can see how in the months following Rossi's arrival in NC, those early results did not hold up later on after they themselves started testing. I will say though, that one can make a case that there were some interesting things happening. Enough so that it kept IH very tolerant of Rossi until the end, but nothing close to the claims Rossi sold them on.

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