@Para,
Seems so. Over a course of years with many different configurations, testing methods, and COPs that are hard to outright dismiss. The "never able to substantiate" FUD came after the lawsuit was filed.
Rossi vs. Darden developments [CASE CLOSED]
- barty
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@Para
They don't seem like one-offs to me. It was a sustained effort over a long period of time. Woodford also stated that they did years of due diligence. Something not right. Murray's involvement was a key event. I'd like to understand that chapter better, and I think I'm on the trail, but I must admit, trying to marshal all of the facts of this case is very very challenging.
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I have explained how to make an apparent COP of around 3, several times.
If I taught that way to do it, and demonstrated the method, and you did it the same way and got the same results, you would think that you had learned how to do it.
Even if it was not actually making a real COP of 3 when done the right way.
But if you did not know the right way, or that there even was a right way that was subtilely different, would you not think that you had success?
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@Para,
I'm assuming you are referring to the alumina / Lugano type reactor using a thermal camera. I don't dispute your findings. But IH had built their own devices and were seeing 5, 9, and in some cases 11 COP. Can you fake out your camera to that degree? And if so, do you think IH would have been faking out the camera in the same way?
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We have entered bizzarro dimension where some still argue IH's efforts to substantiate the results claimed by Rossi (what was the minimum COP advertised?) were all in vain, when Vaughn himself stated the opposite
14 Q. Okay. The second paragraph below, where it
15 says Industrial Heat update July 2013, the document
16 states, in the middle of that paragraph: "We tested our
17 plant at the end of April and beginning of May for four
18 days. During the test we operate 37 different reactors
19 for periods ranging from 24 hours to a few hours and the
20 results were good. Our engineer and the independent
21 engineer operating the test reported the machines produced
22 far more energy than they required to operate. Nearly 11
23 times as much in some instances versus our test
24 requirement of six times during the 24-hour test."
25 A. Mm-hmm.
214-4, page 164
Ha! but Rossi is a hypnotiser. He successfully fooled scientists both at home Italy, in Sweden and in the USA, plus the whole IH team and the independent engineers.
Now, if this guy can fool so many people for so long, why bother with science? there's a lot of rich and gullible folk around that you can sell bridges to, with much less effort. -
Read the case files and you will see that I.H. has evidence that the return pipe and flow meter configuration were completely botched. Heck, you don't even need to do that. Look at Penon's flow rate numbers. They are obviously fake. He made them up. No flow meter would produce those numbers in real life.
You might as well try to defend Defkalion's flow rate numbers after it was demonstrated that their meter showed a high number when there was no flow at all.
Nope Jed. They are only fake in your very biased head. They were rounded down integers though, which were accounted for. Stop digging that hole please. For your own sake.
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I wouldn't say that. I would say that people who cannot tell the Penon data is fabricated do not understand experiments, instruments or data. I do not accuse them of lying or being troll-bots, but I would say they do not understand technical issues well enough to participate in a serious discussion. They resemble the person here who thought that a sauna makes heat magically disappear.
I would suggest to these people that they make some observations of equipment temperatures, recording to the nearest tenth degree. See if they come out the same to the nearest tenth-degree every day for weeks, with the hi-low feature, or computer data. Do a reality check. There are many other problems with the data, but this is one that many people can check without much difficulty.
Also, you might ask yourselves how there can be a large wooden encased pipe that is invisible, does not show in photographs, and vanishes overnight. That seems implausible, to say the least. If you think that is plausible, I would say you are living in a dream world. Rossi has made many other implausible assertions. He makes so many impossible assertions and weird claims, the head spins, and you begin to believe things that taken one or two at a time you would reject. He overwhelms you with bullshit. He also acts as an echo. When I mention that a U pipe is needed, he claims there was one. When someone says "maybe he was making endothermic chemicals" he claims that yes, indeed, he was, even though most endothermic processes reduce heat by a few percent at most, and the only possible candidate would be melting tons of ice to make water. Whatever people on Planet Rossi dream up, he echoes, affirming their nonsense.
@Jed I think you must also be talking about most jurors, and there have already been comments here about how ignorant the attorneys were during deposition. In the end it will be these people, not you, who decides this case. Perhaps you should volunteer as an expert witness. No, on second thought don't, the jurors would probably find you as irritating as we do.
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Display More
218 - Order: Magistrate rules that Cherokee and IPH did not give adequately informative deposition, that they must re-depose, and IH must bear the cost.
219 - 224: hearing notices, corrections to a hearing notice and notice of transcript (nothing very informative)
225 - Order: Judge (Altonaga) grants IH's appeal of Magistrates decision regarding attorney client privilege of emails between IH and Dewey Weaver
Summary and Analysis: The Magistrate has ruled that IPH and Cherokee must provide more informative Corporate deposition. This makes sense to me, especially regarding IPH. How can IPH counter-sue Rossi for damages and then not be able to answer questions about how it calculated damages when deposed? For both Corps, how can they file Affirmative Defenses and not be able to answer questions about those AD's? So this ruling seems reasonable to me (as I had opined earlier). Also, it seemed strange that the Magistrate would not apply attorney-client privilege to IH/Dewey emails since we saw their contract for legal services which made it explicit that their communications were regarding legal issues. So it is not surprising that the Magistrates decision was remanded by the Judge. Rossi (and us in the peanut gallery) will not be seeing Dewey's emails to/from IH.
One more point is that I think that Judge Altonaga's decision indicates that both parties Motion for Sanctions (witness tampering and Spoliation) could proceed if channeled through the Magistrate (which neither were). So these hearings with the Magistrate are an important step in the process of any successful sanctioning Motion and both parties will likely raise their objections with the Magistrate in hopes he will agree to have them heard by Judge Altonaga.
My opinion is that Rossi's case for witness tampering is extremely weak, while IH's case for Spoliation is extremely strong. But this will be decided by the Magistrate and (potentially) the Judge.
I'm disappointed. I wanted to see Dewey on the hot seat.
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I'm disappointed. I wanted to see Dewey on the hot seat.
Yeah, that would have been real entertainment. His mails are probably filled with the most hilarious ad-hominem attacks you can imagine. On every single person involved. It would have been prime time... -
Dang, I was afraid you would come up with something like that!
So now, I have to not only read the rest of the case documents, now I have to watch a series of documentaries that will make Rossi appear the norm?They will be coming to take me away aha, oho, ahee, to the funny farm, where I belong, they are coming to take me away.....
It was a good series of programs, especially the ones about Tesla and Edison.
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'Sane' is not included in this conflict, the only thing that I can see (beside of the silent contribution of a very few honest enthusiast) is massiv greed.In a capitalist society greed is good. It's what keeps the wheels going.
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@Para,
I'm assuming you are referring to the alumina / Lugano type reactor using a thermal camera. I don't dispute your findings. But IH had built their own devices and were seeing 5, 9, and in some cases 11 COP. Can you fake out your camera to that degree? And if so, do you think IH would have been faking out the camera in the same way?
Yes, ceramic or similar for fake COP 3 to 4.
5 to 9+ maaaybe.... I could probably figure out something...
but steam is way easier to mis-measure to get the multiples going strongly.
It takes a certain type of genius to fake out really high COP using light as the energy carrier.
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Wouldn't a measurement error tend to consistently produce the same apparent excess power?
In other words, what sort of error would make the gain randomly range from sligthly above 1x to 9x or more (I'm citing other posters, not quoting the documents)
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Yes, ceramic or similar for fake COP 3 to 4.
5 to 9+ maaaybe.... I could probably figure out something...
but steam is way easier to mis-measure to get the multiples going strongly.
It takes a certain type of genius to fake out really high COP using light as the energy carrier.
Rossi looks well in the running to be that sort of genius. See: New Paper By Gullström, Rossi - COP 22,000
It is above all Rossi's character and ingenuity that makes this saga so compelling. It provides a mirror for all experts, showing how easily they can be deceived by somone who sounds like a passionate scientist and scribbles calculations on a board.
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Wouldn't a measurement error tend to consistently produce the same apparent excess power?
In other words, what sort of error would make the gain randomly range from sligthly above 1x to 9x or more (I'm citing other posters, not quoting the documents)
That is a good question. The answer is, an assorted set of errors, of the sort you get if you try different setups, measurements, etc, rejecting the ones that don't work and persevering with the ones that show high excess power.
That sounds vague, but for examples, you need only go to Rossi's own tests. The two we know well are input-side power measurement (from X1 up to X4). Output-side radiant power miscalculation due to bad IR thermography (X1 - X4). That gives X1 - X16 allowing both together.
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Rossi looks well in the running to be that sort of genius. See: New Paper By Gullström, Rossi - COP 22,000
It is above all Rossi's character and ingenuity that makes this saga so compelling. It provides a mirror for all experts, showing how easily they can be deceived by somone who sounds like a passionate scientist and scribbles calculations on a board.
FUD FUD FUD. We all know that Rossi is a volatile character. However, compared the business lawyer douchebags of IH and random FUD masters on the net he is pretty transparent and open about what he is doing. Your pet theory, that everyone that agrees with Rossi is decieved is pathetic, which goes for your sorry a** as well.
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It would be nice if Jed, being the third most active poster on LENR-Forum (source), could clarify his potential conflict of interest here.
(Source: 214-23)
Oh, we can be pretty sure that many of them are his long-time friends. Maybe he helped Dewey to contact some of them and sell them the IH deal, who knows. It looks though as if many of them were not paid with real money for their IP/knowhow and signed up their work for stock in IH at who knows valuation (Woodford at $2billion...) which possibly makes it a very bad deal for many of them. The way IH looks at it they were even allowed to distribute the Rossi IP to whoever they wanted. And maybe this was part of their deal.
From this context it is not difficult to empathize a bit with Jeds meltdown, and his argument that this is bad for LENR as a whole is kind of logical. At least for his part of the LENR community (ie. most everything but Rossi).
