Rossi vs. Darden developments [CASE CLOSED]

Quote from sifferkoll

Well, I have another opinion as stated. I do not think I should elaborate on it due to a certain sword ...

Well, since you brought it up sifferkoll, I looked at my profile. And sure enough, sifferkoll is right! I don't have any posts before January 28th! This is clearly evidence of suspicious behavior on my part. Especially since I have been posting on this forum since September.

But it doesn't end with me. It's far more sinister than that. Other participants have a cutoff of January 27! In fact NOBODY has any posts before January 27th! (I must not have posted on the 27th).

This is sinister indeed. What if a time vortex in the space-time continuum occurred on that date, coordinated by clandestine operators from the deep state?

Or, maybe the site had a database cutoff date, or an update occurred on January 27th. Nah, that would be too obvious.

Clearly there was some conspiracy on January 27th, and through very complicated and secret ways, this shows that I 'started my shift' then, collecting my paycheck from the deep state. Along with everyone else, including the moderators. These time-vortex guys even control the pro-Rossi contributors here, who also have no posts prior to that date!

(The stock prices for tin foil manufacturers may be headed up.)

Quote from Eric Walker

Sifferkoll banned for two weeks.

Even more evidence of deep state conspiracy on your part Eric.

(Or he got what he was begging for).

In all seriousness, thanks Eric, the air got a little clearer all of a sudden.

LFH Sam,

Sam what is the other thread you refer to? I was not able to find it. -thanks

BTW,

Was part of your reference was about Darden/Zalli/Uzi/Levi connection? It would seem to look like a something that was not well thought out beforehand on how the consequences would look to people after fallout. I think that part could be yesterdays conspiracy meltdown.

Quote from LFH Sam

As for what took place between Obama and Tom Darden in the white house ( Another Conspiracy theory confirmed) we can only speculate.

Are you talking about Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie visiting the the white house on 1/11/2012, where they talked with Obama about their philanthropic work in New Orleans.

http://www.justjared.com/2012/…d-pitt-white-house-visit/

Since Brad Pitt's project in New Orleans is led by Tom Darden III, the son of the Tom Darden II from CIP & IH, you can bet that Brad and Angelina were accompanied by Darden III, and this had nothing to do with the e-cat.

http://www.e-catworld.com/2016…-jan-2012/comment-page-1/

So if you refer to that event, I would rather say another conspiracy theory (spinned by Sifferkoll that time) debunked.

Quote from THHuxleynew

From Rossi's deposition. He says the 2nd floor heat exchanger was removed the day the test stopped and piping reused - BUT...

BY MR. PACE:
10 Q. And what happened to the fans?
11 A. The fans are still there.
12 Q. The fans are still in the warehouse?
13 A. Yeah.
14 Q. And what happened to the cylinders?
15 A. The cylinders have been -- I have used
16 them for other things. I have recovered them for
17 other things

Someone could look at those fans and check the maximum flow rate - which might well be less than required to vent 1MW from air that can be no more than 100C and therefore is heated by no more than 70C. The vented air can carry at most 70kJ/kg (and practically a lot less) => 13 m^3/s flow rate is needed to vent 1MW. That is a very high flow rate. You can do it with big industrial fans.

I'd like to look at the spec of those fans, and find receipts from Rossi for when he bought them...

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The 1MW requirement is a Rothwell based red herring. There's no heat quantity requirement in place in order for the reactor to meet daily positive performance. If the reactor performed with a COP equal to or greater than 4 producing 100C steam for ANY period of time no matter how brief, the reactor has performed up to expectation for that day.

Rigel, it's from the thread started by Jed Rothwell where he posted a link that he was "given from a friend" that lead us all towards a computer malware.

(Image on Mr. Bass's Business Card Found)

Forty-Two,

I did not put that one together, it works. I wonder if 6 degrees of Bacon an international thing? I could spin up a nice Bacon sammerwich in the playground.

Quote from axil

The 1MW requirement is a Rothwell based red herring. There's no heat quantity requirement in place in order for the reactor to meet daily positive performance. If the reactor performed with a COP equal to or greater than 4 producing 100C steam for ANY period of time no matter how brief, the reactor has performed up to expectation for that day.

I'm well aware of that - and legally I doubt this case will hinge on the Test output anyway since it seems unlikley it will be accepted as the GPT.

For the counter-suit things are a bit different. Since penon & Rossi have together claimed results amounting to 1MW output for this to be radically wrong shows they are incompetent or have cooked the figures. Either way Rossi's story of having a working device as he represented to IH has much less (no) supporting evidence.

It's pretty blatant that the emails from IH/Cherokee personnel explaining how the reactors they built themselves, provide significant excess heat (but maybe not as much as they wished), really harm Rossi's story of having a working device...

What if Rossi was trying to steal IH's IP? what if IH is on the path of a working Ni-H based device, and Rossi pretended to be ahead of them, only to steal their IP???

Quote from Roger

It's pretty blatant that the emails from IH/Cherokee personnel explaining how the reactors they built themselves, provide significant excess heat (but maybe not as much as they wished), really harm Rossi's story of having a working device...

What if Rossi was trying to steal IH's IP? what if IH is on the path of a working Ni-H based device, and Rossi pretended to be ahead of them, only to steal their IP???

Roger. Have you paid attention to what happens when people try to find excess heat from these things?

(1) Initially, following Lugano protocols, they get X3 or more excess heat. Which does not exist.

(2) Checking and correcting this, they then get variable results for many reasons (talk to MFMP) and excess of up to 30% is quite easy from the typical errors in these not accurate measurement setups until you get them very carefully set up and controlled.

Do you dispute (1) and (2)? The evidence of this can be found trawling through MFMP's efforts to validate Lugano.

Given that you accept (1) and (2) would you care to quote precisely (with docket number and page context) the evidence that leads you to this blatent conclusion? I'll happily tell you I agree, or give reasons why not.

I am like Lord Kelvin: I am certain that heavier-than-air flight is absolutely impossible. Make of that what you wilt.

For the rest of those unending issues, people and jury can read the court documents for themselves :^)

Quote from Eric Walker

Sifferkoll banned for two weeks.

And another one bites the dust. I have to say I'm not surprised that Dewey was banned first. You know what they say: ladies first.

(I'll show myself out.)

Quote from ZenoOfElea

I do not know the motivations of Darden and the rest at IH. Maybe they are angels, maybe they are devils. Maybe they are crooks.

But let us assume that Darden and the rest at IH are the worst kind of people.

They could be the worst thieves in the world, but they still cannot steal the IP by this method. As I said, assuming the gadget works, as soon as they try to sell it, Rossi will join forces with powerful people and come down on them like a ton of bricks. The powerful people will join with him not because they like him, but because they see hundreds of billions of dollars on the table, there for the taking. I.H. would be totally defenseless.

Quote from Zeus46

[That is not what they say. They say it never produced any excess heat.]

Is there any testimony in the court bundle or IH internal emails,

I don't know. I have not read the IH internal email. I got that information from Penon's data. I.H. says there is no heat, and based on that data, I concur.

Quote from Zeus46

And I'm not talking about the APCO statement that says something about 'failing to substantiate',

That was not written by APCO.

Quote from joshg

And another one bites the dust. I have to say I'm not surprised that Dewey was banned first. You know what they say: ladies first.

(I'll show myself out.)

The banning has been quite balanced. Look at Abd and Dewey, both banned. And, unlike these guys, a real loss. Both Abd and Dewey could be annoying but they contributed something. What does Sifferkol contribute except insight into an unusual and very personal worldview?

Quote from Forty-Two

Are you talking about Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie visiting the the white house on 1/11/2012, where they talked with Obama about their philanthropic work in New Orleans.

http://www.justjared.com/2012/…d-pitt-white-house-visit/

Since Brad Pitt's project in New Orleans is led by Tom Darden III, the son of the Tom Darden II from CIP & IH, you can bet that Brad and Angelina were accompanied by Darden III, and this had nothing to do with the e-cat.

http://www.e-catworld.com/2016…-jan-2012/comment-page-1/

So if you refer to that event, I would rather say another conspiracy theory (spinned by Sifferkoll that time) debunked.

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Forty-Two
I was not aware of that, thank you for posting that information.

Quite interesting though if a gifted philanthropist gets invited to the president and then fail to mention that his family is raising hundreds of millions for a new clean extraordinary energy technology that if further developed can change the planet for the better, and that his father then flies to china to pitch it to their government.

The Bill Gates rumors obviously also had to be false, and then it turned out that it was partly true.

Flamboyant rumors about Brillouin said they had a Google Executive in their board - not quite sure if that is a 100% correct representation of truth but I am willing to settle for having the brother of Larry Page in their board.


Would I bet against the rumors of Obama having been briefed on the E-cat? After rumors on the internet that Obama would be briefed on Cold Fusion(e-cat), out of the hundreds of millions of people living in America, the son of the person who started the worlds biggest investment fund for Cold Fusion and licensed the e-cat gets invited to meet the president. I think it's more probable that e-cat has been pitched to Obama, and I would be willing to make a harmless little bet. I'd be willing to bet you a pizza dinner and a cold drink.

Interesting.... The purported upstairs heat exchanger , according to Rossi, drew air in from the middle upstairs window where two people are standing in a photo in Exhibit A-1 (see Wong report 197-01, report Exhibit A-1, PDF page 13), and then vented it back out that window (Document 194-08, PDF Page 15, transcript page 160).

A set-up that is practically guaranteed to suck the vented, heated air right back in...

And that is the window in clear view from the street, not behind a tree. A window with glass in all panes in 2015 Google images.

No tree in the way from the view out, except the palm, identifiable in the air photo.

1 box, not to allow the air to heat up too much.

2 Q. And the -- so the fans are drawing air

3 from outside --

4 A. Yes.

5 Q. -- into the second story of the Doral

6 warehouse and then they are going over these pipes,

7 if I understand how the system works, because the

8 pipes are warm, that air is getting warmed up and it

9 has to be circulated back out of the second story?

10 A. Right.

11 Q. And it circulates back out of the second

12 story through the windows?

13 A. Yes.

14 Q. So if you look at Exhibit A-1, when we

15 look on -- we can see light coming through two

16 openings here. Are those both windows or am I

17 looking somehow at doors?

18 A. No, are both windows.

19 Q. Was the air being pushed out of both

20 those windows or just one?

21 A. No, just one. The one with the two guys

22 there because we were substituting the -- we were

23 making substitution of -- of the glasses there. The

24 second one has been the window that we used.

25 Q. Okay. So A-2, is that the -- is it your

Page 161

1 testimony that's the window that was used to push the

2 air out?

3 A. I think so, yes.

4 Q. Okay. And just so I understand --

5 A. I think so. Sorry to interrupt. I think

6 so because, you know, I am not -- I don't remember

7 exactly looking out of that window, if this is the

8 panorama.

9 In any case, yes, I think so. Because

10 this window is equal to another -- there are three

11 windows basically. Yes, three windows there are and

12 we used for this purpose the central one.

Quote from axil

The 1MW requirement is a Rothwell based red herring. There's no heat quantity requirement in place in order for the reactor to meet daily positive performance.

It has nothing to do with me! Rossi and Penon claimed the reactor is producing 1 MW. Look at Penon's report! That is what it says.

This is a weird thing for you to say. Everyone in this discussion knows that Rossi claims there was 1 MW. That is why he now claims there was an (invisible) pipe from the (pretend factory) up to the second floor, where there were (invisible) fans. He wouldn't say that if he did not claim 1 MW.

Quote from Roger

It's pretty blatant that the emails from IH/Cherokee personnel explaining how the reactors they built themselves, provide significant excess heat

You are mistaken. These reactors did not produce any excess heat. If they had, there would not have been a 1-year test. They would have paid Rossi, and they would be developing the gadget into a commercial device. They had a brilliant staff and tons of money lined up to do that.

Quote from Paradigmnoia

Interesting.... The purported upstairs heat exchanger , according to Rossi, drew air in from the middle upstairs window where two people are standing in a photo in Exhibit A-1 (see Wong report 197-01, report Exhibit A-1, PDF page 13), and then vented it back out that window (Document 194-08, PDF Page 15, transcript page 160).

A set-up that is practically guaranteed to suck the vented, heated air right back in...

And that is the window in clear view from the street, not behind a tree. A window with glass in all panes in 2015 Google images.

1 box, not to allow the air to heat up too much.

2 Q. And the -- so the fans are drawing air

3 from outside --

4 A. Yes.

5 Q. -- into the second story of the Doral

6 warehouse and then they are going over these pipes,

7 if I understand how the system works, because the

8 pipes are warm, that air is getting warmed up and it

9 has to be circulated back out of the second story?

10 A. Right.

11 Q. And it circulates back out of the second

12 story through the windows?

13 A. Yes.

14 Q. So if you look at Exhibit A-1, when we

15 look on -- we can see light coming through two

16 openings here. Are those both windows or am I

17 looking somehow at doors?

18 A. No, are both windows.

19 Q. Was the air being pushed out of both

20 those windows or just one?

21 A. No, just one. The one with the two guys

22 there because we were substituting the -- we were

23 making substitution of -- of the glasses there. The

24 second one has been the window that we used.

25 Q. Okay. So A-2, is that the -- is it your

Page 161

1 testimony that's the window that was used to push the

2 air out?

3 A. I think so, yes.

4 Q. Okay. And just so I understand --

5 A. I think so. Sorry to interrupt. I think

6 so because, you know, I am not -- I don't remember

7 exactly looking out of that window, if this is the

8 panorama.

9 In any case, yes, I think so. Because

10 this window is equal to another -- there are three

11 windows basically. Yes, three windows there are and

12 we used for this purpose the central one.

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There is no way you can get 1MW heat transfer from air blown over 100C pipes. It needs to be a honeycomb as in a radiator with very fine fins and large surface area.

Rossi is way in Lala land.

Quote from JedRothwell

That was not written by APCO.

Don't companies hire PR firms to do their PR for them? as in, writing statements, speeches etc...

However it may be that "public relations" really don't mean stuff that has to do with "public relations". After all, everything in this affair resides in quantum states of non-contradiction. Rossi's customer being inexistant while there being some sort of production, gadget producing no excess heat while it produces significant amounts of it (in IH/Cherokee's personnel own words), forum members being and not being sockpuppets/paid shills, Ni-H not being a valid path for LENR while being recognized as a valid path by major players...

Really makes you think