During the 1-year test I.H. and I are 100% certain there was no significant excess heat.
IH and you. So you work for IH ? How can you be so sure ? Have you seen the events or speak from hearsay?
I think you really do not know anything and that every your opinion was created and suggested by IH.
But if the opposite is true then you should testify in court under oath.
I wouldn't expect that IH had much of own inhouse experts at this early days.
So you think IH has started a multi-million dollar business without even an expert of the subject?
Yet in their other activities not seem so naive.
A behavior so crude and naive would be a real problem for all investors who do business with Darden.
Well then, let's turn it back on and have any and all experts take a look at the system without all the fake customers and absent "expert(s) responsible for validation!" But maybe they would have magic devices to divine AR's secret formula from a distance.
Jack we are in the Internet century. Industrial plants and experiment can be monitored from long distance. The ERV had to be present just to set up the data taking system then the fulll data was recorded and was possible for him to monitor the system with a remote connection lowering the costs for both parties Rossi and IH.
There is no need of magic here and the only thing that eventually other experts should verify is that the data was taken correctly.
A one-off is not sufficient for substantiation.
But it is enough to show that the technology worked. And if IH is not able to reproduce it properly and frequently, the problem stands in its low capacity.
That is a good question. The answer is, an assorted set of errors, of the sort you get if you try different setups, measurements, etc, rejecting the ones that don't work and persevering with the ones that show high excess power.
IH spoke of Cop 5,9,11 ..... so they are so clumsy ...... has not been able to make consistent experiments and perhaps that's why they did not get the same results as Rossi
Maybe siffer has been "away" for these past few months. Unfortunately, Uppsala is going to have to pay the full price of their ongoing association with Rossi along with a handful of others in that food chain.
After the mail to Bo here is another threatening anathema .... the leopard can not change its spots!
The reason for this is that we now know (from the exhibit that Rossi just posted, 226-03, with an excerpt of Darden's deposition) that Darden is stating that he told Rossi multiple times before the move of the 1MW Plant to Doral, that all options for Performance on Rossi's $89 Million GPT had expired.
For Rossi to prevail, he has the burden of proof to show that in fact there was a remaining $89 Million GPT Performance option. And Rossi's testimony is insufficient. It is insufficient even ignoring the clear evidence of his demonstrated purposeful deception, because this would just be a 'he said, she said' argument which can not prevail with a contract of this magnitude. Any Judge (and that includes a Judge giving instructions to a jury) will state that for a contract of this magnitude, hearsay is not sufficient evidence of an agreement. Add to this Rossi's character burden and it is just not realistic to believe that Rossi has a possibility to prevail without stronger written evidence of an actual signed GPT or at least some evidence that Darden or Vaughn explicitly (in an email or somewhere) stated to Rossi that Doral was an official GPT.
Darden's word is the absolute truth while Rossi is right only if he can demonstrate something in writing? What kind of reasoning is this?
Jack we are in the Internet century. Industrial plants and experiment can be monitored from long distance. The ERV had to be present just to set up the data taking system then the fulll data was recorded and was possible for him to monitor the system with a remote connection lowering the costs for both parties Rossi and IH.
There is no need of magic here and the only thing that eventually other experts should verify is that the data was taken correctly.
When I referred to magic, I was referring to the fake paranoia of AR that someone might detect his secret formula that he lied about in his patent(s) and to IH. You think I don't know things can be monitored from a distance? Anyway, you are playing dumb about the real problem which is having real scientists see the plant in operation without AR messing with the instruments. Based on his deposition, Penon was naively trusting and incurious about most everything. I would guess this is why he was selected by AR.
When I referred to magic, I was referring to the fake paranoia of AR that someone might detect his secret formula that he lied about in his patent(s) and to IH. You think I don't know things can be monitored from a distance? Anyway, you are playing dumb about the real problem which is having real scientists see the plant in operation without AR messing with the instruments. Based on his deposition, Penon was naively trusting and incurious about most everything. I would guess this is why he was selected by AR.
Why do you say these things? I think for AR this paranoia is very real so no fake involved here. And about the lying part: Have you been there and are really competent to judge? No? Ah, I thought so... For a person who is only guessing about what was going on there you have a strong opinion.
The ERV had to be present just to set up the data taking system
Yes, this "data taking system" appears to be Rossi hand writing down the flow meter values once per day.
Perhaps the "remote" part of this system was Rossi emailing the hand written values to Penon? 
Darden's word is the absolute truth while Rossi is right only if he can demonstrate something in writing? What kind of reasoning is this?
This is not what people are saying. Please see post 5494 above.
There is writing... It is the 2nd agreement that WAS signed by three parties. IH, Rossi and Ampenergo. It is what sets forth the payment of $89 million dollars.
It states what must be done for that payment do be made. This legal contract requires among other things, the six unit reactor to be tested, a certain time frame and all three parties to sign off on ANY changes. This did not happen!
Imagine that you buy a car, there are three parties involved... You, the car dealer and the bank. (for the loan) You sign a contract stating that you will pay $100 per month to the bank and the bank pays the car dealer up front, the entire amount for the car. The bank and car dealer cannot "make a new arrangement" of increasing the total loan amount without your signing off on it. The contract is between (3) parties and all have to agree to any changes!
This is the same with the 2nd agreement which contains the GPT. Darden cannot change the agreement on his own. Neither can Rossi. Rossi and Darden cannot change the agreement without Ampenergo. It takes ALL THREE to change it. Whether we like it or not, that is the legal contract and that is what it says. (See link in post 5494)
So it is not Darden's word and Rossi has to have documents. Neither party had the ability to change the contract by themselves or together. It required Ampenergo as well. This did not happen. A contract for $89 million dollars is not going to be changed by word of mouth! Just like the bank cannot change your car payment loan that is only for a few thousand dollars by word of mouth. Anyone should realize this!
(Edit.. typing dyslexia! I meant post # 4594 not 5494.. apologies)
Why do you say these things? I think for AR this paranoia is very real so no fake involved here. And about the lying part: Have you been there and are really competent to judge?
There are three options for his "paranoia." 1) he is irrationally mistrustful, 2) he is being mistrustful as a tactic to exclude people who could discover his deception, or 3) he is rationally mistrustful because of strong forces trying to steal his secrets.
My opinion is for #2.
He tries to present as if #3 is true.
About the lying part, the patent(s) don't work. So, he is either lying in them or he is wrong and it doesn't work. Which is it? I have been there with attempting many replications and have been very involved in considering the research of others. People more competent than I have conducted many more replication attempts with null results. There have been probably 100s of null results using the formula outlined in the patent. It doesn't work. There have been a few poorly done replications indicating higher levels of excess heat, but disappeared with better methodology or could not be replicated. Could there be some small level of excess heating (COP 1 to 1.3)? The data have not yet resolved that matter.
This is very surprising. How come that IH could begin to replicate significant excess heat back in 2013, with reactors they built themselves, then have lost that knowledge over the course of two years as research and trials progressed?
You misunderstand. They did not begin to replicate excess heat. They made mistakes. They thought they were seeing excess heat, but they were not. Many people have done this, on many occasions, including me:
How can you be so sure ? Have you seen the events or speak from hearsay?
Penon's report proves the data is fake. If the thing actually worked, why would Rossi publish fake data? Why would he set up that absurd fake customer?
There is writing... It is the 2nd agreement that WAS signed by three parties. IH, Rossi and Ampenergo. It is what sets forth the payment of $89 million dollars.
It states what must be done for that payment do be made. This legal contract requires among other things, the six unit reactor to be tested, a certain time frame and all three parties to sign off on ANY changes. This did not happen!
OK, so by the time of the summer of 2014 this IH, Rossi and Ampenergo agreement which contains the GPT was no more valid? And when JTVaughn writes in September 11, 2014, email this (214-25 - Exhibit 25):
------------------------------------
From: JTVaughn <--->
Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2014 6:06 PM
To: John Mazzarino; Tom Darden
Subject: 1H Timeline ——
please help fill—in / edit as necessary
[...]
2014
May - September: Rossi begins working on the 1 MW unit to prepare it to operate on a continuous basis for
350-days, per the terms of the agreement with IH. [...]
------------------------------------
he is talking about "the terms of the agreement with IH" which are different from the GPT agreement with IH, Rossi and Ampenergo?
There are no documents for this new agreement and its terms, but it could be a verbal agreement or oral contract having terms like Darden saying to Rossi: "The GPT isn't on anymore, but if you are successful with this 350-day stuff, we are willing to pay you something."?
Penon's report proves the data is fake. If the thing actually worked, why would Rossi publish fake data? Why would he set up that absurd fake customer?
This is the key argument that turns in my head since month, and the answer is clear.
I am amazed how groupthink prevents so many people to accept facts that initially were quite probable, or at least quite possible... We get more confident because of Darden support, of Lugano test, not of Rossi says (I hope so, or it would be irrational), up to the point to consider that all the past lies and mistakes of Rossi were just funny moments by a crazy greedy incompetent genious.
What seems apparent is that some people cannot backtrack... Maybe my past in Prolog and CHP programming make me able to backtrack more easily, when my main scenario is incoherent.
Are we in a post-reality world? It seems, an not only on LENR. We are not more intelligent and realist than the guys who believe in dark matter and energy, who believe in systematic errors in many varied calorimetries, who ... ok i stop, I will shock some believers...
Display MoreOK, so by the time of the summer of 2014 this IH, Rossi and Ampenergo agreement which contains the GPT was no more valid? And when JTVaughn writes in September 11, 2014, email this (214-25 - Exhibit 25):
------------------------------------
From: JTVaughn <--->
Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2014 6:06 PM
To: John Mazzarino; Tom Darden
Subject: 1H Timeline ——
please help fill—in / edit as necessary
[...]
2014
May - September: Rossi begins working on the 1 MW unit to prepare it to operate on a continuous basis for
350-days, per the terms of the agreement with IH. [...]
------------------------------------
he is talking about "the terms of the agreement with IH" which are different from the GPT agreement with IH, Rossi and Ampenergo?
There are no documents for this new agreement and its terms, but it could be a verbal agreement or oral contract having terms like Darden saying to Rossi: "The GPT isn't on anymore, but if you are successful with this 350-day stuff, we are willing to pay you something."?
The 'terms of the agreement' for the 1MW plant were proposed by Rossi himself. It is written up in the Term Sheet. (207-42) It was signed off by both parties. It is explicitly a Rental Agreement. It is definitely NOT a GPT agreement.
If there was any other signed agreement, don't you think Rossi would produce it as evidence to support his Motion for Summary Judgement?
Not doing so (if there really were such a written agreement) would be legal suicide or incompetence of the highest order.
At this late state in the Discovery phase (now completed) we can safely assume there is no other written agreement of any kind (signed or not). (Or do you have reference to one?)
At this late state in the Discovery phase (now completed) we can safely assume there is no other written agreement of any kind (signed or not). (Or do you have reference to one?)
OK, so it was just a Rental Agreement. Thanks for clarifying it. I don't have references to other documents, hence my question marks.
If that's all there is to this agreement stuff, it seems really silly of Rossi to demand payments per the GPT agreement.
If that's all there is to this agreement stuff, it seems really silly of Rossi to demand payments per the GPT agreement.
That is the inner mystery of this whole affair. What was his purpose in pulling off the Doral thing? Was he calculating that there was a good chance for estoppel? (It's not always easy to tell where the courts will take things, and there's always the possibility of a technicality.) Was he hoping through some kind of Hail Mary to apply pressure on IH to get out of the license agreement without having divulged his (in this scenario, working) IP and then move on to another business partner that was more malleable and willing to give him more favorable terms? Was he acting out of a nihilistic impulse or out of desperation? Etc.
There are no documents for this new agreement and its terms,
There is a written agreement / document for this new arrangement and terms.
Doc. 50 exhibit 17 is a written contract, signed by IH (JT Vaughn) and Rossi for the rental and sale of heat to JMP. The date on this contract is August, 13, 2014, which is before the Sept. 11, 2014 memo you presented above. So the memo and the contract seem matched without issue. GPT test contract (2nd Agreement) was void and a new contract for rental and sale of heat was in place on 8/13/14. Vaughn writes a memo a month later referring to the IH agreement that he personally signed a month before.
I see nothing out of place with Vaughn's memo. There is a lot to read and remember with this drama! I know I certainly do not have everything completely realized! 
