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What is that beige box coming out the of the black JMP container and going through the wall (or maybe attached to the wall)? What are those four pipes running up the wall and across the ceiling?
Any thoughts anyone?
I don't see any insulated pipes from the box going up to a supposed heat exchanger. Where would the upstairs access be compared to these boxes?
Well, assuming the contraption works as it should, they would be filled with both. Water toward the bottom of the pipes collecting at the pump, and steam higher up filling the more elevated pipes.
Keep in mind, the pipes completely filled with water/condensate, don't contribute anymore to condensate any steam.
So it doesn't make any sense that a major part of the serpentines is filled with water.
Actually, if the purpose of the "serpentines" is a condenser, then you want to have as less as possible liquid water (and as much steam) in it, and you would want an as low as feasible condensate level inside (controlled by a steam trap - which was apparently missing in Doral)
And btw: The main miracle is still, where does all the heat dissipated from the "serpentines" go?
I am not sure but don't care to take the time, since you never took the time to answer about the window picture in 10.
Yes I did, here. You even "liked" my comment.
And btw: The main miracle is still, where does all the heat dissipated from the "serpentines" go?
Well, I would say a good candidate would be up those four pipes. Where from there, who knows?
Well, I would say a good candidate would be up those four pipes. Where from there, who knows?
Which four pipes?
And how can the heat dissipated from the "serpentine" pipes (to ambient air) get carried away by piping?
(Or do you mean/see a duct-work?)
Which four pipes?
See picture posted above.
QuoteAnd how can the heat dissipated from the "serpentine" pipes (to ambient air) get carried away by piping?
(Or do you mean/see a duct-work?)
Of course, I'm just speculating. But if the heat is dissipated, it would probably be sucked out by that relatively large beige box coming out of the JMP black container, which then appears to have openings for the four pipes (looks like pipe sections are missing in this photo). Alternatively, maybe those four pipes are the steam bypass pipes described by Rossi in his deposition, which I think is more likely. The JMP box probably uses some of the steam for its purposes, and the rest gets bypassed.
See picture posted above.
Of course, I'm just speculating. But if the heat is dissipated, it would probably be sucked out by that relatively large beige box coming out of the JMP black container, which then appears to have openings for the four pipes (looks like pipe sections are missing in this photo).
Oh, those "pipes"? 
(Most likely el. conduits)
Are you kidding me?
For today I'm not wasteing my time with this anymore - maybe another day again
I don't get how the water in the black box serpentine, which seems to end up at floor level, gets up high enough to be pumped by the little pump without first filling the serpentine almost 3/4 full of water.
Which four pipes?
And how can the heat dissipated from the "serpentine" pipes (to ambient air) get carried away by piping?
(Or do you mean/see a duct-work?)
These Pipes ...
This is getting ridiculous. Anyone remember when Rossi filed suit, and there were rumors of JMP being fake? I do, and those defending him pledged at the time, that if ever proven true, however unlikely that happening they argued, they would abandon him. Well, we are well past that, as it has been known for a while that JMP was a complete, in your face, disrespectful Rossi fabrication. Even PGluck seemed to finally, just today, take notice of that?
Yet, now, here we are 1 year later, and well into made-up heat exchanger systems, a hidden pump, rusty reactors, leaking pipes, and yet...they still argue for the guy. Had all this been known from the outset, when it was only speculation about JMP...would we still be debating this? Kind of reminds me of the frog being put in cold water, and slowly heated. He never notices as the heat increases gradually. Anyway, I am at a loss. This is not logical to me.
Thinking of it all, I keep thinking how a jury trial will play out when reading IHTB, and AF posts. Sharp guys. Suppose Rossi's lawyers were to hire them to counter the massive engineering, and common sense evidence to the contrary...well the jurors eyes will glaze over, and call it a draw, when it is nothing of the sort. So then it comes down to believability, and Rossi has that innocent, Italian accented English, skinny workaholic, David vs Goliath demeanor, and IH is a VC, which nowadays is a bad word.
Even with all this damning proof against Rossi, it is still a crap shoot/risky for IH allow this to go that far. They would probably still win, but even with a 5% chance, or less, of losing, they may unfortunately decide to settle, just to be safe. Unless of course, the court grants IH's motion to dismiss.
I am curious; can anyone here that still supports Rossi, with the professional background to do so, still, in good conscience, after all the evidence to date, go into a court of law, and defend him as you do here?
Thinking of it all, I keep thinking how a jury trial will play out when reading IHTB, and AF posts. Sharp guys.
That's IHFB to you, Mr.
But hey, thanks for the complement. I actually find you to be quite sharp yourself. Although I do miss your fence-sitting days.
Listen, I don't excuse Rossi for the JMP ruse. It was stupid and he probably knows it by now. I think it will not play out well with the jury, and might be the linchpin for the jury to side with IH (in fact, I consider that to be the probable outcome). And if the heat exchanger never existed, and IH can prove that, then it is a done deal. IH wins.
In the meanwhile, we ought not to view the world through exclusively mutual constructions. Just because JMP was a ruse does not automatically mean that there was no excess heat. The more I point out flaws in IH's case (e.g., no photo of flow meter setup and Smith didn't even attack that aspect), the more IH fans like to shift the discussion back to the JMP ruse. I get it: that works for most, and will cause many to throw up their hands and dismiss the whole thing. I see the world in much more nuanced terms.
IHFB,
Hey, you suggested we should call you IHTrollB...remember? 
Seriously, like I said, you are very sharp, as all here are, and until last night, you fought the good fight with very little to work with. Very impressive, and everyone gave you your due. But from here on out, I am sorry to say, I will pay little attention to your thoughts.
The evidence is simply too overwhelming against, to react otherwise. Were I to compromise my principals for something so ridiculous as this has become, no one would trust my word ever again. You might think of that for coming debates, whether they be far removed, or related, topics. If your judgement can not be trusted on one, it will NEVER be trusted on any other.
That said, as far as I am concerned, this debate is over. Rossi is a crook, and should be jailed, and reviled.
The more I point out flaws in IH's case (e.g., no photo of flow meter setup and Smith didn't even attack that aspect),
How do you know there is no photo? Who told you this? Stop making things up.
Oh fubar this 'with the I am out stuff' from many of you today. We all know regardless of sides we are in it to the end. Just that we have burned out on discussing how Rossi did his deed and his outcome.
Rigels prediction--- No one is going anywhere. We just have exhausted the data. Tomorrow or the next day or the next we will have more data.
It's just we have nothing more to argue about. And Dewey could have provided bread crumbs, but cannot well... now. Why? Because he took it personal and got his ass banned for 2 weeks. Sheesh...
You all can come back later this mess, I will still be here. Do not even consider leaving me here to clean it up. This is a court case not a Rossi is full of BS case.
We are mostly all in agreement on this. SMH
How do you know there is no photo? Who told you this? Stop making things up.
You know what I meant. There is no photo available to us. You say there is a photo. Fine, please point to it. Unlike your comrades here who prejudge sight unseen, I need to see the evidence and weigh it.
Rigels prediction--- No one is going anywhere.
I agree. But not because we have exhausted the data (we have truly only scratched the surface of what is available to us), but rather, it is because most participants here don't like to have their preconceived notions challenged. So they sign off in a huff, and say they are out of here. But rest assured, they will be back, if only as a lurker.
Example: THH signed off in a huff, said he was done, and then was back in a few minutes.
I don't get how the water in the black box serpentine, which seems to end up at floor level, gets up high enough to be pumped by the little pump without first filling the serpentine almost 3/4 full of water.
@Para,
I think Smith's schematic is missing key elements and has added non-existent elements. It doesn't match what I see in the partial photographs provided in his report. For example, if you look at the lowest brown serpentine pipes in the JMP container, you can see that it looks like it is going some place else altogether, near ground level. But the photo is cut off so we can't see where it goes. There are other parts of his schematic that look like guesses, such as the return pipe being connected to the steam riser, and the steam riser being connected to the internal condensate tank (no photos provided to substantiate these connections).
That's what I meant. There are pipes winding their way all the way to the floor.
After a long look, it seems that the serpentine is cut short (somehow) and goes to the pump/bypass arrangement, pretty much as Smith drew it.
So... hardly any surface area to dissipate the heat, not to mention that the box is sealed up and insulated.
And the "active" the pipes are insulated, which is not what you want if you are trying to cool the steam down (if that is what was going on) into water.
Weird.
I think the "active" insulated pipes are supposedly loaded or charged with whatever was being putting in them for heat treatment. Looking at the serpentine brown uninsulated pipe, it runs at nearly ground level right out of the picture. It doesn't even look like it loops back to the pump. If it is does, I don't see it in the provided pictures.
