Rossi vs. Darden developments [CASE CLOSED]

    Quote from Paradigmnoia

    And the "active" the pipes are insulated,

    Remember Para, some still believe there was "production" going on! =O

    "...loaded or charged with whatever was being putting in them for heat treatment..." :!:


    It will be extremely difficult to argue honestly with someone who has their mind made up with no evidence to support it and then accuse others of being closed minded! :rolleyes:


    It has become part of them and they will not be able to change views. As we have seen, with every release of documents, it is nothing but more damming evidence on Rossi. Rossi has never provided any solid evidence at all, supporting his case. Yet, with every release, certain posters wildly speculate, give ad homs and state their view is more reliable than sworn testimony from people that have actually been there.


    All we need to ask them is this.... if Rossi is real, why does he not provide the evidence in the court documents to counter these "evil presentations" by IH! Why does Rossi not show the flow meter? Why does Rossi not show photos of the heat exchanger? Whey does Rossi not defend his case? .....


    Because he cannot:!:

    Quote from SSC

    In fact the side of JMP was hidden to visitors for a reason.

    Yes it was hidden for a reason! Now there are photos showing the fake customers side. The reason it was hidden was that it was FAKE!

    The black box only held a length of "serpentine" pipe. there was nothing else there. No connections, electrical power, ability to move product in and out.


    For a endothermic process to "consume" 1MW of heat, it would take fork truck loads of product. There was only one small access door.


    Yes, there was a reason....:rolleyes:

    Quote from SSC

    if we can build devices and we

    ·6 can operate those devises.·

    Yes, SSC, Darden did make that testimony.


    Somehow you seem to pass over "if we can build devices and we can operate those devices":!:

    Rossi did not let IH operate the devices... he would not even let their engineer Murray in the building!

    They wanted to run the devices at their facility and Rossi made up the fake customer scenario in Doral to get it away from there. Rossi refused the NC location.


    So even IF this oral agreement was contractually valid, Rossi broke the contract because he did not let IH run the devices nor gave them the ability to manufacture the "secret sauce". Why? Because none of it really worked.

    Quote from WMartin

    sent to the ceiling at the E-cat side requiring a pressurized system. Same thing for return, you have to get the product to the top of the ceiling for the system to work.

    Quite correct...

    Some posters here, in their "not well thought out" defense of Rossi, only look at the issue in front of them and not how it would connect into the

    whole scenarios.


    It was stated along the lines that the most likely scenario was the 1MW heat when up those pipes, but where it was dissipated, who know? !


    Well that poster then does not account for the fact, as you have rightly stated, that if the steam was sent up to the ceiling level, significant pressure would be required. Which then would require significant more temperature to keep the phase change, which then makes the data wrong.... and on and on.


    One has to look at the entire circuit before making wild claims about "the most likely" case was the heat went up the pipes. AND then they accuse people of making not well though out statements! THH has done a fine job of solid math. These posters cannot counter with a critique of the math by posting where there is a mistake or an alternative mathematical answer. They simply throw mud at the person. Normal for those with no true defense. ?(


    But Rossi already taught IH/Cherokee how to build and operate E-Cats... in 2013


    Hkkev5U.png



    Since you seem knowledgeable on that affair, and don't mind sharing your thoughts, could you provide a theory explaining how Rossi, according to you, built non-working reactors to try and scam his partners, after having given them the knowledge to build working, Ni-H based reactors for themselves, back in 2013? :/

    Quote from IH Fanboy

    I need to see the evidence and weigh it.

    You have enough evidence to sink a container ship. You don't need more evidence. You need to wake up, face reality, and stop with the ridiculous evasions. You hit a new low the other day:


    "The date on Google photos is not the date taken.


    Okay, it is the date taken, but it might be wrong.


    Google might be lying about the date!


    It is not a meaningful date because it is missing the day of the month, so we should ignore it.


    Those white shapes reflected in the glass that look just like the clouds 180 degrees away? Oh, those aren't clouds. That's steam, even though Rossi claims the steam is not released."

    Quote from Roger

    Now, we see on the photographs of the court docs, that there was, on that "JMP" side, a long, big black box and piping going up to the first floor.

    That's a radiator! What does it look like? It has the serpentine pipes described by Rossi's people. It has an extra pump that only works with liquid, so there couldn't have been any vapor in it.


    There is no piping going up anywhere. There is no way there was any equipment on the mezzanine.

    Quote from Roger

    Since you seem knowledgeable on that affair, and don't mind sharing your thoughts, could you provide a theory explaining how Rossi, according to you, built non-working reactors to try and scam his partners, after having given them the knowledge to build working, Ni-H based reactors for themselves, back in 2013?

    In your posted email, please note that Vaughn very clearly states..

    "We believe we have good results, but there is a critical caveat. We are not fully confident in our method of measuring output energy." (emphasis mine)


    Some want to use the memo as proof that IH obtained excess heat, but skip this very important sentence. As some here have previously discussed and it seems in Darden's deposition, that the initial "positive tests" by IH turned out to be bad measurement. This is the same as seen in the Lugano test. It was initially seen as positive, but after much hashing and even testing by MFMP, it is seen to have serious flaws and not reliable for true confirmation.


    So my thoughts are that IH, wanting the eCat to work, worked very hard to confirm it. That they gave Rossi every leeway, providing facilities, technicians and $10.5 million dollars so he could clearly show them how to build and operate the devices. After much testing, they found that they did not in actuality work.


    So my understanding of IH's testimony is that they have never built a working reactor. They build reactors that initial test showed excess heat, but then later confirmation showed that the measuring techniques were faulty. This is common. Even MFMP have had "positive tests" with much fanfare from Mr. Greenyer that proved out to be false positive. Parkhamov had a very positive test, but has been unable to replicate that test himself, once he improved his measurement apparatus. So this is not unreasonable.


    Then "scam" all fits the known facts. IH wanted the test in NC, where they could closely monitor it. Rossi refused and setup a fake customer to get the plant out of IH's facility. He then setup the sale of heat and plant rental (actual contracts have been provided) and started the Doral event. Then he files a lawsuit stating the event was actually the GPT after the fact. The definition of this is a "scam". Fake customer, fake test, fake working plant. It did not work at all.


    If Rossi had a working plant and wanted his $89 million dollars, he could have set it up in NC, let IH run the tests and collected.

    He did not do this... there is a reason why....


    If he wanted to win this lawsuit, he could provide photos of heat exchangers, provide proof of the customer, provide photos of the flow meter, production, etc. etc. He would not have dismantled all the equipment at the Doral facility the night the test was over!


    He does not do this.... there is a reason why...


    The reason is it was a scam to begin with.

    not exactly. Even if you assume Rossi did so in NC, the system in Fl was a different system - "new and improved" version.

    And the date in 10 by the investigator is not to be believed since he was not sworn in..... (IHFB view)


    The bottom line is there was glass in the windows = admit it.


    Roger, you will perhaps remember that 2013 was at a time when Rossi's Lugano-style emissivity measuring error was being used and not understood. IH were given a beautiful Rossi demo which indeed showed significant excess energy when operated by them. That was probably before Rossi stormed out of a meeting with Darden claiming that an empty reactor that also showed significant excess heat must contain fuel - except when cut open it was still empty! You see, IH had the resources and honesty to go on checking and discover when given a rigged calorimetry setup!


    Rossi inhabits a very peculiar world in which things contrary to what Rossi thinks are known wrong, and people who don't agree with this are snakes. You, it seems, would get along with him fine. Perhaps you'd llike to invest?


    In order to process all this Rossi stuff you need to have a decent memory and remember that Rossi's stories have a limited shelf-life - till they actually get tested. At that point he parts company with whomever had the temerity to do independent testing and starts again, a new mark, a new story.


    I hear QuarkX's have got super-high COP, and at least one PhD seems to believe this...

    Some of the comments by Rick Smith are hilarious. Especially:


    Regarding entropy: ". . . energy systems always “roll downhill” when left to themselves. Thermal systems will always proceed from hot (higher energy) to cold (lower energy), left to themselves; they will never go from cold to hot unaided. The human body does not generally become stronger, healthier, or more agile as one ages. The author has personal experience with this."


    "In the vast majority of the cases, this cell content was 36000, not 35837, or 36714, but 36000 exactly. 27000 and 29000 were well represented also. This is undoubtedly the most uniform data collection which this author has seen in his forty plus years of engineering."


    "The Murray videos show a very marked temperature rise in the space, with temperatures approaching 373° K (absolute temperature), which is 100°C, which is 212°F. This is warm, even for Miami."


    Some droll understatements on p. 12:


    "Mr. Fabiani’s pressure and temperature data are reported to four decimal places. This would lead one to believe that the instrumentation used was capable of measuring pressure to 1/10,000 of a bar and temperature to 1/10,000 of a degree C. This is some serious research grade instrumentation. . . . On 07 Apr 2015, there was a day long power interruption. Here are graphs of Mr. Fabiani’s power input, pressure output, and temperature output data for 07 Apr 2015. . . . . Since there was a power interruption that day, one would expect to see a graph of the power input as a flat line at zero. However, the power is slowly and steadily increasing all day in a very linear fashion. . . ."


    "Very linear" indeed! This is an example of the fake data I described earlier, where we know the equipment was turned off but the Penon report shows it was working.


    From Exhibit 235-10:


    "The only access to the mezzanine is a rickety wooden stairs, which the attorneys made this author climb first (load test) before they would use it."


    This statement is not funny. It is the key point:


    "The point is that the E-Cat 'system' could just as easily have been flowing water as steam. With the installed instrumentation, there is absolutely no way of knowing. Determining and establishing the whether the system was flowing steam would have been easy to do, if the person establishing the test plan was interested in knowing that data. If the E-Cat was in fact flowing water, and the output was not measured, but rather was only calculated, based on the assumption that the flow was steam, the calculated (not the actual) E-Cat thermal output would be exaggerated by at least a factor of five."

    Ha, so for 2 whole years we have a company + investors and their scientific teams doing due diligence on the discoveries of Rossi, and not noticing measurements problems... until a couple of internet residents finally understand how the whole affair is a scam, because "emissivity"


    Notwithstanding the whole "emissivity" issue has not reached consensus amongst the knowledgeable people on this forum.



    Concerning the Dewey/Rothwell alleged "small fan and radiator" on the "JMP" side, what I see on the picture clearly doesn't resemble neither radiator nor fan. What I see is a big black box and piping going to the upper floor.


    Maybe there are "emissivity" issues on that photograph, which make me see things that aren't there?

    Quote from Roger

    Concerning the Dewey/Rothwell alleged "small fan and radiator" on the "JMP" side, what I see on the picture clearly doesn't resemble neither radiator nor fan. What I see is a big black box and piping going to the upper floor.

    1. That is a radiator. Rossi said it was serpentine radiator!

    2. There is no piping going up from the pretend customer site anywhere. Not to the mezzanine or anywhere else. The pipes you see are not connect to the customer site.

    3. There are no electric outlets on the upper floor capable of running a fan.

    4. There is no trace that any equipment was installed on the upper floor. Quoting Smith:


    "There was no lighting, other than the windows, no electrical power (save two small junction boxes and some small conduit), no holes or patches where conduit and power boxes would have been mounted, no holes or patches where piping would have been supported, no hole patches in the floor or the drywall wall – in short, nothing. The only access to the mezzanine is a rickety wooden stairs, which the attorneys made this author climb first (load test) before they would use it."


    5. Rossi has not provided a shred of evidence there was anything in the mezzanine.


    Give It Up already!

    Quote from Roger

    Ha, so for 2 whole years we have a company + investors and their scientific teams doing due diligence on the discoveries of Rossi, and not noticing measurements problems... until a couple of internet residents finally understand how the whole affair is a scam, because "emissivity"


    If you look at the released documents you will notice that IH were cautious from the start, but greatly impressed by the fact that 6 clever profs had written a detailed and seemingly careful report showing positive results. They then spent a long time not understanding why Rossi's tests were positive when there own (different) tests were negative. The fact that profs like Levi can go on getting this wrong just shows that measurements can be tricky. And the fact that IH took so long to be sure it was wrong shows that they were determined (as Murray in 153-11 said see my ref above) to go on testing positively if there was even 1% chance of LENR. One test showing COP = 3 or more, another showing nothing, is an anomaly that they would stick with until understood.


    I guess they might have worked it out sooner had they not paid attention to Levi?


    Quote

    Notwithstanding the whole "emissivity" issue has not reached consensus amongst the knowledgeable people on this forum.


    Which knowledgeable person here has no consensus? MFMP, Bob H, P, Jed, me, anyone else who has bothered to look at the experimental or theoretical corrections says the same thing.


    I'm only aware of rb0/ele/... If you look at the threads in which they actually have a proper technical discussion instead of making assertions you will see their position depends on an unsustainable assertion that an IR sensitive camera will accurately determine temperature based only on total emissivity when the radiation it receives depends on IR band emissivity.


    And Wyttenbach - who has a bee in his bonnet but refuses to look at the experimental evidence - and claims that Optris cameras get grey-body temperatures wrong by a very large amount.

    Exhibit 10 is a big step up for IH's case. I guess it took a while for them to be able to bring an outside expert to Doral.


    Now waiting for a response on the Rossi side that doesn't involve contractors and repurposed material.



    In my fantasy world, Rossi would bring some outside experts in (how about Rick Smith) and run an independent e-cat test for a day. Not gonna happen obviously.

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