Rossi vs. Darden developments [CASE CLOSED]

Quote from THHuxleynew

Maybe you believe that IH are liars (on oath) and fools as well as greedy capitalists?

If they had excess heat (other than experimental error) ie something like what was claimed from Lugano we have the following logical sequence:

(1) IH hold (from the Rossi contract) IP and license to something of extraordinary value

(2) IH would want to commercialise this is fast as possible because the IP protection is flaky and first mover advantage matters

(3) IH would have large investments from Woodward funds etc easily available

Now, you I think believe that all these things hold, but for some reason IH choose to do nothing for 18 months stuck in a law suit with Rossi. Why?

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Because they're stuck in an IP-related lawsuit and cannot put this IP to use, as they're stuck in a lawsuit related to this IP, which they cannot reasonably put to use before the end of the lawsuit?

Are you claiming MFMP have tested IH's reactors, or Rossi's?

Quote from Roger

Because they're stuck in an IP-related lawsuit and cannot put this IP to use, as they're stuck in a lawsuit related to this IP, which they cannot reasonably put to use before the end of the lawsuit?

Are you claiming MFMP have tested IH's reactors, or Rossi's?

MFMP have tested the Lugano protocol, and noted the error they made in using IR cameras.

The issue is why IH did not just pay Rossi, in the case that his stuff works. You have to work out why they would choose not to do that.

Did MFMP test the reactors that IH built themselves, and the protocol they used to witness "significant excess heat", in their own words? Also, it seems that the Lugano team answered your questions about emissivity. But I'll hold my judgment, I really have no idea who I should trust, between a group of multinational scientists working in their field of knowledge, and an Internet Emissivity Expert!

I do like your logic though: "Because it's possible to make an error about X, you therefore have made this very error, even though I haven't been near X whatsoever and only worked on a vague model to come to this conclusion"

There are a a lot of good reasons to explain why IH did not pay Rossi, the most probable one having to do with the Quark-X, which may or may not have been covered by the IP agreement between Rossi and IH. But in doubt, it was only sensible for them not to pay.

Roger

I think some times the best thing to do is accept differing opinions

Good luck with yours

If you are correct the world will have e-cat based lenr very soon

There are a lot of known and technically feasible things that the (civil) world doesn't have, for a number of reasons

Once again I admire your logic: "if X works, then X will be built and commercialized, because there are no other factors weighing in on the commercialization of X apart from its feasibility"

Quote from Roger

Reality is evasive to intellect, mind and senses. Achilles bridges half the distance between him and the turtle, but there is always half the distance left to cover, then another half, then another half... Achilles never actually outpaces the turtle.

Rossi gives the know-how to build reactors to IH/Cherokee/etc, they build Ni-H based reactors, test them and witness significant excess heat (back in 2013) but there's always the Internet Emissivity Experts to convince... there never was any excess heat.

Rossi sets up some kind of system to use heat from the plant and transform whatever in a big black box, after falling out of a deal with Johnson Matthey... there never was any heat nor transformation of none product in that big black box which was really either 1) a small fan or 2) a radiator

Achilles and the turtle, yes I know, I am after all Zeno of Elea.

Here is my position.

On the technical parts we have Rossi's expert witness and IH's expert disagreeing.

I read qualified people on this board, such as Para and Huxley telling me that the pipe circuit cannot work as Rossi claims.

On ECat World there are other qualified people such as Engineer48 who claim it does.

So basically on the technical side, I an not able to make a judgement and I will watch from the sidelines.

On the customer side, well that is settled, Rossi lied and it was a fake setup. If you do not accept that then I am not going to waste time going over basic issues that are in fact settled.

There are 89 million reasons for Rossi to finally prove that he has what he says he has, and yet he doesn't, I think that is because he cannot. That is my opinion.

Around 5 hours ago you posted the letter from J T Vaughan. This has also been gone over repeatedly so I am not sure why you are dragging basic things up.

IH said initially they had some promising results, later they changed their minds. So according to your view that must make them dishonest.

I guess that puts you in a difficult position. You think Rossi is genuine, that puts you in a diminishing group as myself and others change our minds in light of the new evidence. But according to you if someone gets new information and changes their mind that makes them dishonest.

So why are you here?

What are you hoping for?

I read a lot of today's responses and a lot of the exhibits. Didn't notice anything really new, except for 236-7, Darden's (I think) hand-written notes, including sending a unit to Boeing without Rossi's knowledge.

Engineer48 actually seems to work in a field related to large quantities of steam production and manipulation. Paradigmania and Huxley, nobody knows, but boy do they like writing on the Internet.

Rossi sets up some kind of system to use heat from the plant and transform whatever in a big black box, after falling out of a deal with Johnson Matthey: according to you this falling out of a deal means that Rossi had nothing going on, for Leonardo's own puprposes, in that big black box, even though there is a court doc picture of the inside, with pipes - not the same ones as the supposed heat exchanger on the floor above -

There are 89 million reasons for IH not to pay for a perhaps already commercially obsolete IP, and more than that for Rossi to sue them, and get full control back over his IP, which he evolved the Quark-X out of.

IH said they had results, then 2+ years later, after having worked on the tech with no recorded issues, after having got investors on board (who probably checked out the tech themselves), they decide there never was any excess heat... but only after Rossi sued them.

What you call "new information" is probably "legal-ready rewriting of history to keep hold of a valuable IP", but what do I know, I only look at a timeline of facts and statements.

Quote from Roger

Engineer48 actually seems to work in a field related to large quantities of steam production and manipulation. Paradigmania and Huxley, nobody knows, but boy do they like writing on the Internet.

OMG, you are talking about that guy, who drawed this sketch...
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/…9b4d622fe92e3258e99d9.png

I am "impressed" by how in his sketch the 1MW steam magically condenses in a couple of pipe loops.
How does the heat dissapear?

And he is another guy who apparently doesn't know what NPSHr means.

Quote from Roger

...Rossi sets up some kind of system....

...and transform whatever.....

...but what do I know, I only look at a timeline of facts and statements.

Are the above examples of "facts" or "statements"

Thx

Pete

Quote from Forty-Two

OMG, you are talking about that guy, who drawed this sketch...
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/…9b4d622fe92e3258e99d9.png

OMG, that's the "FUD" I was talking about that ele was upset about!

Quote from Forty-Two

OMG, you are talking about that guy, who drawed this sketch...
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/…9b4d622fe92e3258e99d9.png

I think you pointed to the wrong image. I am curious to see the right one.

Quote from Roger

they decide there never was any excess heat... but only after Rossi sued them.

Perhaps you have not read the uploaded documents. They decided this long before Rossi sued them. Anyone can confirm that. Your statement is flat-out wrong. You are making of fool of yourself. Why? What is the point of saying things that anyone can see are factually wrong?

Quote from JedRothwell

Perhaps you have not read the uploaded documents. They decided this long before Rossi sued them. Anyone can confirm that. Your statement is flat-out wrong. You are making of fool of yourself. Why? What is the point of saying things that anyone can see are factually wrong?

I'm interested to check out those documents. Are you saying they date back to before the lawsuit, and unequivocally state that IH/Cherokee had come to the conclusion -before lawsuit- that the gadget produced no excess heat? Please give me the references, I'll be happy to read them.

Quote from JedRothwell

I think you pointed to the wrong image. I am curious to see the right one.

This is, so far, my favorite from the last batch of Exhibits:

(238-28)

Quote from Alan Fletcher

I read a lot of today's responses and a lot of the exhibits. Didn't notice anything really new, except for 236-7, Darden's (I think) hand-written notes, including sending a unit to Boeing without Rossi's knowledge.

236-14 is Leonardo Corp Tax Return for 2012 and 2013.
Just browsed quickly through it, and noticed for instance (on page 64) that Rossi got compensated with $250.000 - but there is nothing in the line "Salaries and wages", and also no "Charitable contribuitions".
Didn't Rossi once say he has a team of 65 something?

And no donation to support "children with cancer"?

Doc 238-12 page 4 lets you know what Penon's fee as ERV at the 24hours (or was it 48 hours) test in Ferrara was.

Roger

Rossi vs IH.

I may be wrong, but as I understand it if Rossi wins, that presumably means the test is valid and IH pays him $89m (perhaps with damages) but I do not think that means that IH lose the IP which they have paid for.

IH vs Rossi

Again IMHO for IH to win their case they have to demonstrate that Rossi did not deliver what they paid him for, in fact he delivered nothing.

This whole case can be blown up into the air simply by Rossi demonstrating that he has what he says.

Very simple for Rossi to do this.

But no, with Rossi it is always secrecy and duplicity.

Why go through the court route and all the other shenanigans when there is a simple way for him to prove what he has.

Do you think he is going to pull out a Big Frankie in front of the judge?

Quote from Forty-Two

I am "impressed" by how in his sketch the 1MW steam magically condenses in a couple of pipe loops.
How does the heat dissapear?

Oh, I see what you mean. Engineer48 drew the lines on the photo on the left. They indicate that 1 MW of steam condensed in a couple of tubes. Hmmm . . .

Yes, that does seem improbable.

I thought you meant a schematic.

As I recall, Engineer48 confidently predicted that Rossi had a superb set of instruments to measure steam quality, and a steam trap. The equipment normally used to measure the enthalpy in steam. I wonder if he has looked at Penon's report and expressed any doubts.