Rossi vs. Darden developments [CASE CLOSED]

Quote from Alan Smith

Someone sent me a message about this- unverified by me as to provenance. "I just had a look at Exhibit 235-10 which clearly show all 42 reactors with 42 pumps..."

If correct, would that be the answer?

There are 7 BF (tiger) modules, 6 pumps in each, and each notionally producing 250kW (unless that is 4 BF modules + 18 separate units not used - there was a clear story about this in the depos which I can't remember). We have always been told - and I think it is in the depositions - that only 4 are used at any time. We know this from the 25% output reduction when only 3 are online. (If this data is faked of course that may not apply).

All 7 modules would be just enough to deliver the claimed flowrate (40*42 = 1680l/h, flowmeter gives 1500kg/h), but not produce the change shown when one was down. Also, the unused modules with pumps on would push unheated water into the output making the claimed temperature impossible. Basically, the idea that more than the active module pumps are used is no good, because of the unheated water. The idea that more than 4 modules are active is no good because of the 25% change on one module going down and much other evidence about how this thing worked.

Quote from Shane D.

I will say also, Jed thought TTH's theory that Rossi usually has some kind truth, deeply buried somewhere

I did indeed think that. Years ago there were times when he seemed to be spouting nonsense but other times when he said improbable things which I thought turned out to be true. Especially regarding the first Levi test, and the factory heater. Now, I no longer feel any confidence in anything he claims.

Quote from IHSupporter

How hot would it get in a room in Florida in the summer when it is 98F outside and humid with 10 kW heaters going constantly?

Not very hot. As I said before, a normal warehouse air conditioner should handle this. It is like having a stove with four burners turned on full all day long. It would get hot around the stove. If it was in an enclosed room, the room would get very hot, but the overall space should remain cool.

In a commercial kitchen, a stove or oven produces 20 to 35 kW, and a large restaurant will have several of them. By law, you must install a hood and blower over the stoves to keep the kitchen reasonably cool and smoke-free. Still, commercial kitchens are always hot.

Quote from THHuxleynew

There are 7 BF (tiger) modules, 6 pumps in each, and each notionally producing 250kW (unless that is 4 BF modules + 18 separate units not used

By the way, who uses 18 pumps to circulate water from a boiler?!? What a strange thing to do! It reminds me a Dornier Do X seaplane, with 12 engines, which is 8 too many.

Quote from LFH Sam

Mr Huxley,

I have noticed considerable changes in your grammar and writing so I would then like to know if you have ventured into an agreement where you are paid or if you have any other incentive for writing. The reason why I ask is because among various things I have noted that you started to use the connotation "we" a lot.

I would really appreciate if you answer these questions with yes / no / none of your business.

I, on the other hand, are here purely for my entertainment.

My day job is 6 fig.............

As a hobby, in the last two years, I took down the QEG web funding

(proof available if needed, TK, MD, M Yug and others know this).

I have recently shown that IHFB is either full of crap, or he doesn't own a kettle.

He becomes more sure by the day which says a lot about his kitchen.

Sadly, I came into this one too late (although I was following Pt 1),

and now, it is all too easy.

LFH, got anything tech that needs debunking ?

I found the ProMinent 2012 pump catalogue and specifications on the internet quite easily. With serial number breakdown, specs, cold vs normal operating temperature flow effects, etc. I posted a piece on ECW, just before I was blocked from posting, that showed the poly seals and therefore 50 C max operating temperature.

I have two manuals:

Operating instructions

Solenoid Metering Pump gamma/ L, GALa

and

Operating Instructions

Metering Pump ProMinent Gamma G/5a

Paradigmnoia, were you just blocked from ECW now, or was this some time back?

@ Eric it was a couple days ago. I was replying to E48.

I would like to complete one reply here, if I may...

(My apologies to Bologna for spelling that wrong in my haste)

How full is the condenser? No condensate pump:

Quote from JedRothwell

There is absolutely no doubt that Rossi fooled various people in the military, in some private companies, and some investors. That is not such a noteworthy accomplishment. Military organizations are large and you can always find a few people in them you can fool. There were many others in the U.S. military he did not fool. I have been in touch with them. They never believed a word he said.

His e-mails show that he fooled people about various things, such as the existence of his independent company, and the existence of the heat exchanger in the mezzanine. Evidently he fooled Dr. Wong about the heat exchanger. He has fooled dozens of people here and elsewhere on the internet about various things.

It is not difficult to fool some scientists, for a while anyway.

It isn't as if he fooled millions of people. He is a con man. Fooling people is what he does for a living. He is pretty good at it. This is not a particularly unusual or noteworthy accomplishment. He is not a world-class con man such as Bernie Madoff. Surely you are aware that con men are common, and many investors, military organizations and others are often swindled. You can read about such things in the newspaper any day of the week.

Defkalion also swindled investors. There have been many others in the so-called "over unity energy" field. Many of the lasted longer than 10 years. There have not been many in cold fusion until now, because cold fusion never attracted any funding, so it has not been a lucrative target for swindlers.

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I believe you've been in touch with some military who told you things, just like IH/Cherokee told you things. We're now seeing how those hearsays are unraveling.

JMP seems like a ghetto-rigged backup plan put in place after Johnson Matthey didn't go forward with whatever agreement they had, and maybe IH/Cherokee took liberties with the IP, which might have pushed Rossi to not really care about complete transparency.

We don't know yet about the heat exchanger, whether it's real or not (but given what we know about the rest of the set-up and surroundings, there's no reason it couldn't have been where Rossy says, check ECW)

Do you realize how much ad hoc theories you have to create in order to come to the conclusion that it's not a banal business/IP dispute about an extraordinary invention, but an epic story of lies and deceit woven by a super crafty indomitable hypnotist playing tricks on the minds of way more than average people from scientific, military and private business (financial and industrial) backgrounds, over the course of 10+ years, and several continents?

Quote from Roger

I believe you've been in touch with some military who told you things, just like IH/Cherokee told you things. We're now seeing how those hearsays are unraveling.

JMP seems like a ghetto-rigged backup plan put in place after Johnson Matthey didn't go forward with whatever agreement they had, and maybe IH/Cherokee took liberties with the IP, which might have pushed Rossi to not really care about complete transparency.

We don't know yet about the heat exchanger, whether it's real or not (but given what we know about the rest of the set-up and surroundings, there's no reason it couldn't have been where Rossy says, check ECW)

Do you realize how much ad hoc theories you have to create in order to come to the conclusion that it's not a banal business/IP dispute about an extraordinary invention, but an epic story of lies and deceit woven by a super crafty indomitable hypnotist playing tricks on the minds of way more than average people from scientific, military and private business (financial and industrial) backgrounds, over the course of 10+ years, and several continents?

Quote from Jed Rothwell:

It isn't as if he fooled millions of people. He is a con man. Fooling
people is what he does for a living. He is pretty good at it. This is
not a particularly unusual or noteworthy accomplishment. He is not a
world-class con man such as Bernie Madoff. Surely you are aware that con
men are common, and many investors, military organizations and others
are often swindled. You can read about such things in the newspaper any
day of the week.

This might make a good movie, but some major enhancements/liberties would need to be taken by the scriptwriter for acceptance by an average moviegoer:

a) An immensely more credible and believable con-man persona and background than the real Rossi would need to be developed, improving his incoherent, disjointed, unverified, ramblings and “data”:, his basement skill-level aluminum-foil hairball “experimental apparatus” and Ebay used-and abused uncalibrated (or “re-uncalibrated” as it were) measurement equipment , deleting his very public history of prior exposed criminal cons, something more credible than his hand-waving exhortations of “..look, TRUST me, the hairball on the bench is producing 10x, 100x, the input power, but you cannot verify my measurements or test apparatus, or install an agreed upon one , and ignore all those heater elements and power going into the hairball!!..." .

b) “a” above would be required for the audience to believe that a group of supposedly intelligent, experienced investors (or one’s grandmother) would be naive, gullible, and cavalier with OPM (other people’s money) enough to fall for such a blatantly obvious con, to the tune of millions of dollars—that is indeed the biggest “mystery” of all .

This is entertaining and perplexing, all the people bantering about, pipe sizes, meter locations, open windows, thermocouple types, mystery home-depot heat-exchangers, what’s “behind the curtain/wall” that no one was allowed to see, etc.

As noted previously on many occasions, all this could be easily decided: setup a test with mutually agreed-upon and certified measurement methods and observers (of course, conman Rossi has not, and would never, agree to such a test, likely citing how everyone is out to steal his great invention, and defraud him (a rather pathetic and not credible excuse)), therefore he can never disclose all his “secrets”) and fire up any one of Rossi’s many “working” greatest inventions of the last hundred years (afterall, they’re easily constructed in the garage with rudimentary tools , skills and expertise) and start measuring/data-gathering.

Yet, Rossi’s supporters, insist on the impossible “logic” that the world must prove a negative to the countless stream-of-consciousness Rossi-world "output" --that Rossi is NOT lying, that the “data” is NOT fake, that the “customer” is NOT a fraud, huge excess energy did NOT exist, that huge ventilation fans did NOT exist, that pink flying unicorns do NOT exist—ad nauseam . The only explanation as to why Rossi and his cohorts will not agree to such a demonstration is that he is a total fraud--amazing that anyone would fall for it, much less pay millions. If I were an “investor”, I’d be suing IH to get my money back due to gross negligence.

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Quote from Paradigmnoia

I posted a piece on ECW, just before I was blocked from posting, that showed the poly seals and therefore 50 C max operating temperature.

It says "at max permissible counter pressure", do we have to assume that at lower counter pressures this too will be higher?

Quote from Roger

Do you realize how much ad hoc theories you have to create in order to come to the conclusion that it's not a banal business/IP dispute about an extraordinary invention, but an epic story of lies and deceit woven by a super crafty indomitable hypnotist playing tricks on the minds of way more than average people from scientific, military and private business (financial and industrial) backgrounds, over the course of 10+ years, and several continents?

Roger,

You are setting up extremes, perhaps that is how your mind works.

If you want to take on extraordinary, ad-hoc conspiracy theories go to ECW where everyone who disagrees with Rossi is a liar, or part of some conspiracy.

Where Engineer48 is the resident expert and anyone who wants to take part in a technical discussion with him, such as Paradigmnoia or THH gets banned.

It is quite possible to run a fake invention over ten years and con people out of millions of dollars.

This has been done many times, the latest was Orbo it wasn’t even a very good con, “I’ve got a perpetual motion machine, who wants to give me money?”

Rossi is not a “super crafty indomitable hypnotist”.

Nor is he a genius with an extraordinary, world saving invention, he is just a very naughty boy

[ref Life of Brian].

Robot factories - fake.

JMP customer – fake.

Other customers he keeps mentioning over the years – fake.

Disappearing heat exchanger – fake.

Independent tests with Rossi not meddling – fake.

Wasn’t he promising the imminent opening of a factory in Sweden a few years ago, what happened to that?

Hmmm, could there possibly be a pattern here?

I think his Ecat is vaporware but without the vapor.

The 1MW test was rendered useless by Rossi. The data cannot be checked, raw data deleted by Rossi, emails deleted, and equipment removed Penon and Fabiani left the country. Hence all the ad-hoc theorizing.

So Roger either he is inept or he is hiding something, which do you think it is?

Quote from Roger

1. I believe you've been in touch with some military who told you things, just like IH/Cherokee told you things. We're now seeing how those hearsays are unraveling.

2. JMP seems like a ghetto-rigged backup plan put in place after Johnson Matthey didn't go forward with whatever agreement they had, and maybe IH/Cherokee took liberties with the IP, which might have pushed Rossi to not really care about complete transparency.

3. We don't know yet about the heat exchanger, whether it's real or not (but given what we know about the rest of the set-up and surroundings, there's no reason it couldn't have been where Rossy says, check ECW)

4. Do you realize how much ad hoc theories you have to create in order to come to the conclusion that it's not a banal business/IP dispute about an extraordinary invention, but an epic story of lies and deceit woven by a super crafty indomitable hypnotist playing tricks on the minds of way more than average people from scientific, military and private business (financial and industrial) backgrounds, over the course of 10+ years, and several continents?

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I think this post of Roger's about sums up the way Planet Rossi manages to do the White Queen thing.

The points made here are nearly all (1,2,4) subjective semblance and belief, not backed by any facts, and highly improbable given the totality of information about Rossi's deceit, conveniently omitted here.

The point that has more factual basis, and is potentially provable or disprovable, (3) is both wrong and irrelevant:

Wrong

The google maps window glass evidence makes a powerful argument for no heat exchanger there during the test, even if you disbelieve Smith (his evidence of no sign of its installation is more nebulous from our POV, because we are not quite sure how much evidence there would be - you in particular will believe any Rossi excuse for lack of evidence - but it is probably stronger)

Irrelevant

Because Rossi's heat exchanger, as detailed in the Wong Report and Rossi's sworn deposition, cannot dissipate more than 100kW. If the Penon report measurements are out by so much, they provide no evidence of any excess heat. Quite extraordinary, if Rossi has this, given how much he clearly wanted that $89M and the fact that he controlled the test.

There is no way Rossi could get rid of the 1MW. ECW have been very inventive but have given up trying to think of such. Rossi himself seems worried about it. On Jonp he vacillates - has given up the endothermic process since that did not run with the crowd, seems now less interested in the heat exchanger and is talking of venting heat through the roof. That would not help. You still have the 100kW limit unless Rossi has somehow made a better heat exchanger which he forgot to tell anyone about which works in parallel with the defective heat exchanger he told us about?

Another interesting example is Rossi telling us on his blog via DT alias that all 42 of the pumps were on, to account for the flow discrepancy. That shows, immediately, that this detail is something he worries about. His solution now contradicts much other info from him and the engineers on site about how the big frankies (so-called tiger modules) were used.

It remains of some interest how people can wall themselves off from these inconvenient facts.

I think it comes down to different epistemologies:

Group A (incl. nearly all scientists):

• Something cannot be taken to be empirically true unless you really do all of the groundwork needed to establish that it is.

Group B (incl. people distrustful of science):

• Variant 1: Something convenient (the E-Cat) cannot be taken to be false unless you can rule out all possible explanations for why it might be true.
• Variant 2: Something inconvenient (fracking causing earthquakes in the US state of Oklahoma) cannot be taken to be true unless you have no discernable dissensus among scientists.

Group C (incl. me):

• Most of the time Group A have it right. Every once in a while the sociology of the scientific enterprise gets in the way of the actual science, and you need to dig into the matter a little more to get a balanced picture (LENR).

Quote from ZenoOfElea

If you want to take on extraordinary, ad-hoc conspiracy theories go to ECW where everyone who disagrees with Rossi is a liar, or part of some conspiracy.

Where Engineer48 is the resident expert and anyone who wants to take part in a technical discussion with him, such as Paradigmnoia or THH gets banned

I'm sure neutral observers can read both Engineer48 at ECW and our resident experts here, then make up their own mind about what seem more rational/plausible

Roger, if there's any way that you can rope Engineer48 to come over here and support his claims, neutral observers will surely be grateful for this.