It seems this is most certainly glass with a reflection.
I think the window you took a snapshot of with the reflection in it was to the left/north of the Leonardo/JMC unit.
Rossi vs. Darden developments [CASE CLOSED]
- barty
- Closed
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Q. Let me just ask the question. Does Leonardo Corporation have a new partner in the development of E-Cat units?
MR. ANNESSER: Object to form.
THE WITNESS: No.
On JONP:
Customers ....Yes!
Sold units .... 13!
Factories...Yes! A magnificence!
Partners...Yes! Important even!
JMP... UK Based, independent, making production, making money, chief engineer!
Under court oath:
Customers.... No
Sold units... 1 to IH
Factories... No
Partners....No
JMP... I, Rossi am JMP
Edit:
And by the way... he trashed all the evidence after the test!
And the list could go on.
And how many pages here do some "unbiased" thinkers "searching for truth" discuss whether there are reflections in a window?
Those same accuse IH of lying, misdirection and subterfuge, while not being able to point to one proven case of such in the court proceedings! (Many in their unbiased minds, perhaps, but none in the court proceedings)
They move from one obscure event clinging to hope that the eCat is real while ignoring the mountains of evidence against Rossi that exposes his deceits!
They argue window glass when posted math shows that it does not matter. The described exchanger would not dissipate 1MW heat anyway! Instead of intelligently discussing the "provable" math, they argue endlessly about moot window panes! They do this because they cannot argue the math and the window panes are fodder. No, the only thing worth discussing in their minds, is how they can come up with some possible explanations to work around Rossi's lies and misdirection's and then try to blame IH at the same time! This is utterly fascinating
All under the false guise that they are only seeking truth, but all the while, they throw insults at IH or IH witnesses while never holding Rossi accountable. This is the most irritating point. Yes, only when called out on the subject, might the "unbiased one" make a very minor and soft wrist slap to Rossi, just to justify his words to himself! There is no real calling to accountability of Rossi....none!
No, the major lies and deceits that are proven under oath by Rossi's OWN confessions are fine and dandy with these supporters They are trivial and not worth consideration at all! A window glass pane warrants endless discussion, but they never give a paragraph on how they have come to believe Rossi in spite of his many grievous and blatant lies and misdirection's. How and why they hold such hope that he is telling the truth about the heat exchanger when he has lied about so much in the past is beyond me. You would think some would realize... fool me once, shame on you... fool me twice shame on me... fool me a dozen times.... well.....
When will some people admit the facts. If Rossi had ANYTHING, he would have presented the evidence by now! He is at major risk of summary judgement. He should be able to EASILY prove his case! He has shown no evidence supporting his case at all. Rossi has not provided ANY evidence except one witness who only testified as to what "Rossi says". NONE! Therefore his loyal followers then try to conjure up evidence from nothing, from obscure reflections, to provide what Rossi himself has not..... a defense that he is nothing but fraudulent.
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On the subject of windows, would this help?
* * *
Source: http://coldfusioncommunity.net…/01/0235.08_Exhibit_8.pdf
Page 160
box, not to allow the air to heat up too much.
Q. And the -- so the fans are drawing air from outside --
A. Yes.
Q. -- into the second story of the Doral warehouse and then they are going over these pipes, if I understand how the system works, because the pipes are warm, that air is getting warmed up and it has to be circulated back out of the second story?
A. Right.
Q. And it circulates back out of the second story through the windows?
A. Yes.
Q. So if you look at Exhibit A-1, when we look on -- we can see light coming through two openings here. Are those both windows or am I looking somehow at doors?
A. No, are both windows.
Q. Was the air being pushed out of both those windows or just one?
A. No, just one. The one with the two guys there because we were substituting the -- we were making substitution of -- of the glasses there. The second one has been the window that we used.
Q. Okay. So A-2, is that the -- is it your
Page 161testimony that's the window that was used to push the air out?
A. I think so, yes.
Q. Okay. And just so I understand --
A. I think so. Sorry to interrupt. I think so because, you know, I am not -- I don't remember exactly looking out of that window, if this is the panorama. In any case, yes, I think so. Because this window is equal to another -- there are three windows basically. Yes, three windows there are and we used for this purpose the central one.
Q. So just so I understand that too, if you are walking into J.M. Products there is a window right above the door for J.M. Products?
A. Sorry, I do not understand what you are saying.
Q. Sure. When you walk into the J.M. Products building, the side of the Doral warehouse, there is a window above the door that you come in, correct?
A. Correct. And that is -- yes, correct.
Q. And then there is two -- if you are facing the building, to your left there is another set of second story windows?
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Great idea to get a view from Bing. But to me that looks like reflections in the right two panes and equipment behind a screen in the left two panes.
Edit: in fact based on how all of the other windows look in this shot, this just looks like equipment.
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Missing:
IH infra-red reports, alluded to by Jed.
There are partial (cropped) icons for several IR images visible on one of Murray's emails, somewhere in the recent batch of exhibits.
Edit: They are on the last page of 235-09. Perhaps they are from thermal modelling. There isn't enough text in the email to make explicit what they are.
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It seems this is most certainly glass with a reflection.
That is the wrong window. Your view is a window in a building section to the right of the Leonardo section.
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But there are now at least two from Google that do show a reflection.
Really just one (the special one). The second best one that I posted is not even close.
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So if you wanted to give Darden the benefit of the doubt, you could say that he took Woodford's money to use towards testing other LENR tech, even if he knew that Rossi was totally bogus.
Ironically, I actually sympathize more with Darden than either you or SSC. After reading his emails and depositions, I've come to the conclusion that Darden was largely acting rationally and for the most part is without guile. His biggest mistake was hiring the wrong experts (the second part in what will become the biggest blunder of this century), because he had no choice but to believe them (due to likely pressure from Woodford).
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Rules against doxxing prevent me from being explicit, but DT (from Russia with love) has signed off at least once with another pair of initials familiar to us.
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Rules against doxxing prevent me from being explicit, but DT (from Russia with love) has signed off at least once with another pair of initials familiar to us.
Do you believe any of the recent visitors to lenr-forum are socks? We have quite a few newbies here in just the last week or so.
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The possibility that Rossi had open window panes for ventilation is pretty absurd. I lived in S. Florida, within 25 miles of this location for 35 years. The rains in S. FL are hard (typically 1"+ and at a rate of 6"/hr), frequent in the summer (about every afternoon), and windy. Any open window is going to admit a lot of rain water to accumulate inside. Older homes had windows designed to open for ventilation (before the advent of refrigerated air conditioning), but they were also designed to be protected by 3' overhang and/or closed when it rained. These windows are not protected from the rain at all and would seem to have no mechanical provision for opening. Any missing pane would be quickly plugged with plastic or wood by the owner until the glass is replaced.
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Do you believe any of the recent visitors to lenr-forum are socks? We have quite a few newbies here in just the last week or so.
No comment.
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So there was this heat exchanger than no one apparently ever saw or heard (fans are quite loud, though I guess the rest of the system must have been loud too); Rossi had it installed by unknown contractors, has no proof he purchased any fans, pipes... He immediately repurposed all the materials (why can't he show those modified fans?), but somehow waited a whole year until Wong's visit to have the windows fixed?
IMO more likely IH finally got a "gotcha" that Rossi hadn't planned for and he had to come up with something. And that he removed the windows for Wong's visit.
I believe Rossi has already BSed in his deposition (claiming that when he told IH before the test that he was gonna "run the plant" he meant JMP); he BSed IH about the customer. Why would he not BS about a heat exchanger?
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Ok ― I think I've explored and participated in the window question enough to my own satisfaction. I will try to play my part in not detaining this thread in further fruitless ratiocination around it. I personally will be very interested to see what further concrete details @Alan, @P, can or others might dig up, as I suspect this particular question will be an important one if the lawsuit goes before a jury, if only because it is so straightforward and simple to take into account all of the relevant information. It is obviously just a sideshow to the much bigger issues that beset Rossi's stated position.
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So what narrative should we add to the big picture here. remember adding narrative to facts is story telling, other stories may well be the truth but let's try.
First let's list a few facts around the general picture.
1. Rossi may believes the effect but in stead of modifying and improve the test setup a 1MW test is run, when IH does not believe him he still don't work harder to
improve what he got but in stead sue them.
2. The first thing, very quickly proofs of the workings is removed
3. Also very quickly a lawsuit against IH was filed.
4. IH counter suited but those court cases will be done after Rossi's case
5. 1MW heat is mysteriously gone with a couple of fans and out through the window. Rossi mentioned
this at one time and just stated that there was an open window indicating natural convection as I remembered.
6. I've been working in huge spaces with natural convection and electrical equipment reaching say 300kW. The
concerns about the heat is very real.
7. under metering.
Now to the narratives:
1) Rossi tried to scam IH. Realizes that it won't fly and decides to remove enough evidences so that no proofs will be against him with certainty. In order to
see the cards that IH has he chooses to file suit first and learn from that in case IH sue him later for fraud.
2) Rossi make bad mistakes and really believes in what he is doing - sort of, but stressed of the forthcoming time in court he removes evidences and file suit first
maybe because we all have heard it is better to strike first than the opposite.
3) Rossi thinks that he has something good, get angry by the questioning and claims from IH of non working devices, get's suspicious by the other involvements IH has
and decides to try get rid of them at least keeping the IP. He is not interesting in showing the technology for them, pull a 1MW show and simply destroys most evidences
and file suit to make sure to get the IP at least and in case IH hold him to court with fraud he hopes to create enough uncertainty to get free. Maybe he's been working intensively
with next big thing under all this time and spend less time in the container than indicated.
How would you set up the narrative?
Have fun
Stefan
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Maybe we could stop this endless speculation if some one would pay a visit to High Service Glass -office and zip cup of coffee there. Shouldn't take long to find someone who has been doing some window work in Rossis factory. I'm pretty sure that window job is not under NDA.
Anyone living close by?
https://www.google.fi/maps/pla…d25.8912175!4d-80.3252291 -
Maybe we could stop this endless speculation if some one would pay a visit to High Service Glass -office and zip cup of coffee there. Shouldn't take long to find someone who has been doing some window work in Rossis factory. I'm pretty sure that window job is not under NDA.
Anyone living close by?
https://www.google.fi/maps/pla…d25.8912175!4d-80.3252291Yes, and go by the landlord of the industrial site and ask them what construction is allowed in their rentals and if they inspected the alterations. All the industrial rental sites I know require approval for even tinting the glass much less taking out windows and putting up walls. They also normally do walk bys to check on things and most have security/ janitorial workers that check on things.
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Maybe we could stop this endless speculation if some one would pay a visit to High Service Glass -office and zip cup of coffee there. Shouldn't take long to find someone who has been doing some window work in Rossis factory. I'm pretty sure that window job is not under NDA.
Anyone living close by?
https://www.google.fi/maps/pla…d25.8912175!4d-80.3252291What can they say that would change anything. Even if they say that they removed the panes the day before Wongs visit. Do you really think it would change anything to the people still believing in Rossi. I very much doubt it would change anything. They will just say that the glases can have been removed and replaced before.
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I bet there is some service that mows the yards, waters the plants, or cleans the parking lot that would notice if there was a window blowing out 1MW of heat at 20mph during the summer.
Who owns the buildings?
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Ok ― I think I've explored and participated in the window question enough to my own satisfaction. I will try to play my part in not detaining this thread in further fruitless ratiocination around it. I personally will be very interested to see what further concrete details @Alan, @P, can or others might dig up, as I suspect this particular question will be an important one if the lawsuit goes before a jury, if only because it is so straightforward and simple to take into account all of the relevant information. It is obviously just a sideshow to the much bigger issues that beset Rossi's stated position.
To clarify, it's not that I have an active interest in proving that Rossi is a fraud (although I hope this ends soon either way), but for different reasons I recently went through the effort of reorganizing excerpts from his deposition from the exhibits in the Court docket into a more coherent and convenient to use format, so I have a more or less complete general picture of what he (and Bass) said. See the attached document below.
Please disregard the emphasis I added (I removed most of it before uploading the document on LENR-Forum, but some remained).
