Rossi vs. Darden developments [CASE CLOSED]

Quote from JedRothwell

earn $89 million by taking people outside a building and pointing to some fans on the second floor, would you do it or not? If IHFB or Gluck come up with some preposterous excuse to say they would not, they are trolling, and not engaged in a serious discussion.

I think your persistent accusations of trolling is trolling. Once Rossi went down the JMP ruse path, it made it very difficult for him to switch things up mid-test and say "hey y'all come back here and see what we got 'cookin." The first part of the two-part blunder is that Rossi initiated the JMP ruse, probably after the disappointment with the actual Johnson Matthey. It was a fateful decision. The next part of the two-part blunder is that Darden hired the wrong experts, who understand little to nothing about LENR, and render clumsy reports. What other choice did Darden have at that point other than to believe his experts? At the point of filing the lawsuit, Rossi probably believed that JMP could escape unscathed by claiming trade secret, etc.

Just a whole bunch of exclude-murray-and-smith as experts (he-said,she-said). Plus a bit of Vaugn foo, where they told Fabiani to tell all or be a party.

Quote from IH Fanboy

I think your persistent accusations of trolling is trolling.

This is also/better known as 'The Lomax Paradox'.

Quote from IH Fanboy

Once Rossi went down the JMP ruse path, it made it very difficult for him to switch things up mid-test and say "hey y'all come back here and see what we got 'cookin."

No one was fooled by the fake customer site. They knew perfectly well that Rossi was committing fraud. They did not care. They would have paid him anyway if he had produced real heat.

Quote from IH Fanboy

he next part of the two-part blunder is that Darden hired the wrong experts, who understand little to nothing about LENR, and render clumsy reports.

They know way more about LENR than Rossi does! But this is not about LENR. This is about industrial scale calorimetry. Murray and Smith are experts on that subject. Murray is one of the best in the country. Their reports are not "clumsy." If you think they are, it is because you do not understand them, or you are not used to industrial engineering.

The 1-year test had nothing to do with LENR. It was fake, from start to finish.

Quote from IH Fanboy

I think your persistent accusations of trolling is trolling. Once Rossi went down the JMP ruse path, it made it very difficult for him to switch things up mid-test and say "hey y'all come back here and see what we got 'cookin." The first part of the two-part blunder is that Rossi initiated the JMP ruse, probably after the disappointment with the actual Johnson Matthey. It was a fateful decision. The next part of the two-part blunder is that Darden hired the wrong experts, who understand little to nothing about LENR, and render clumsy reports. What other choice did Darden have at that point other than to believe his experts? At the point of filing the lawsuit, Rossi probably believed that JMP could escape unscathed by claiming trade secret, etc.

IHFB, I sympathize with your hope that AR's deception ends at his having actually working technology. Given everything you know, do you have a reason to think that all his deception ends at having a fake customer, fake tests (admitted previously to get out of a license agreement), and fake patents (they don't work), fake comments on his blog and elsewhere? In other words, what makes you think he is being honest about the "test" and "data" when he has so clearly lied about so many other things? I understand motivations such as those of Mats Lewan and others which is that the risk is simply too high to dismiss his claims. However, I don't agree with this position as "clean" energy is now more affordable than the dirty alternatives. We don't have to have a working LENR technology, although it certainly would be nice.

@Jed,

And yet, it appears that Smith didn't even reference the user manual of the pumps, and therefore made false assumptions. It also appeared that he included a photo of the front of the building, and drew big red arrows at everything except the most important part: the two missing panes of the window. Murray claimed a DN40 pipe in Exhibit 5, and has lost all respect from me since it was revealed as pure bunk. I'm surprised you still have respect for him given that you were hung out to dry on that one.

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Murray claimed a DN40 pipe in Exhibit 5, and has lost all respect from me since it was revealed as pure bunk.

I give him a pass on that one : he was half right. Wasn't it DN40 from each big Frankie, merging with "something bigger" that he couldn't see, presumed DN80? His deposition makes all this clearer.

@Alan,

No, it was more sinister than that. Murray suggested that all of the flow (i.e., 1398 kg/h) was forced through a DN40 pipe. He then went on to state that the pressure differential required to overcome losses in the pipe would preclude it (which of course was true had it really been a DN40 pipe). This was a big deal back then. It was--at the time--one of the most prominent reasons why the IH camp was calling for heads to roll. It was an IH PR masterpiece. And Jed road that one all the way to the end.

Quote from IH Fanboy

And yet, it appears that Smith didn't even reference the user manual of the pumps, and therefore made false assumptions.

He read the capacity off the pumps. The face plate is usually more reliable than the manual. Take it from me: I used to write the manuals.

Quote from IH Fanboy

Murray claimed a DN40 pipe in Exhibit 5, and has lost all respect from me since it was revealed as pure bunk.

You are out of your ever-loving mind. He asked Penon what size it was. You make it sound like he committed a Federal Crime for asking the size of a pipe. For all you know it was DN40. More to the point -- and what you have ignored -- it would not make a damn bit of difference if the pipe were 1 foot in diameter. There are dozens of other reasons why we know there was no steam.

This has become a fetish with you, like the imaginary window-without-glass. Of course there was glass! Of course there was no heat exchanger. Rossi would have been paid $89 million if there had been one. No one who visited the place could possibly have missed seeing and hearing such a thing. He could not possibly have dissembled the whole thing in one day, patched up the holes, removed all the electric wires, and hid every trace of it. More to the point, why would he do that?!? It would mean he does not get the $89 million and it probably means he loses the lawsuit. In return for what? Do you seriously believe he needed those pipes so badly for some other project he threw away $89 million to use them? The guy is still a multimillionaire. He can afford to buy some pipes.

I am astounded that you or anyone else believes this outrageous cock and bull story of the heat exchanger. I am astounded you do not see the flow and pressure data is a complete fabrication. When you turn off half the reactors, do you seriously believe the daily flow rate falls exactly half and then goes back? 36,000 18,000 36,000. Does that look plausible to you?

Quote from Bob

It seems that only one person can see these missing panes, . . .

Actually, I tested this with a young child, under the age of 8, who quickly identified the two missing panes versus the glassed panes. So that makes at least two.

Quote from Bob

Sadly, the "biggest invention" of the century now rests on vague photos determining if there is a reflection in a window. It seems that only one person can see these missing panes, but that is surely enough to make the eCat true, even if solid math shows the imagined heat exchanger could not dissipate 1MW through the window anyway. Instead of proving the math, he argues reflections! Truly convincing

Exactly. It is a tower of cards.

Quote from IH Fanboy

Actually, I tested this with a young child, under the age of 8, who quickly identified the two missing panes versus the glassed panes. So that makes at least two.

It is an OPTICAL ILLUSION. A trick of light. It goes away when you look at the window from another angle. It would only fool a child or someone blinded by wishful thinking.

Quote from JedRothwell

It is an OPTICAL ILLUSION. A trick of light. It goes away when you look at the window from another angle.

No it doesn't.

Quote from JedRothwell

You make it sound like he committed a Federal Crime for asking the size of a pipe.

Fetish, cock, out of your ever-loving mind. Your very language reveals the doubt that you harbor. And no, he didn't ask whether it was a DN40. He stated it as if it were a fact, and once having built his straw man, he proceeded to topple it. And the lenr-forum erupted in adulation.

windows, flowrates, customers, heat exchangers, signatures, destruction of physical evidence, site visits a year late, destruction of data.......

Remember that Rossi must prove his case against IH not the other way around.

Will some R supporter give their "proof" that the events in Fl were an approved GPT, and that the heat was of levels required without a doubt?

Quote from IH Fanboy

It was--at the time--one of the most prominent reasons why the IH camp was calling for heads to roll.

No, it was not the most prominent reason. Not by a long shot. You have made this a fetish, but I and others hardly noticed it. There are many other reasons more compelling, such as the fact that the data is fabricated and impossible; there has to be some back pressure so the temperature of 103 deg C means there was no steam; and the flow meter was the wrong kind, incorrectly installed. There are more reasons. You will never address them, but they are there.

The heat exchanger is the living end. The most absurd nonsense yet. You seriously, honestly believe the heat exchanger was real, yet no one could see it, no one saw the pipes, and Rossi he casually threw away $89 million just to reuse some old pipes. He didn't even bother to take photos of the equipment. He worked overnight to hide every trace of the machine, and remove the electric wires. You're good with that, right? You really, sincerely, believe that?

Quote from JedRothwell

No, it was not the most prominent reason. Not by a long shot. You have made this a fetish, but I and others hardly noticed it. There are many other reasons more compelling, such as the fact that the data is fabricated and impossible; there has to be some back pressure so the temperature of 103 deg C means there was no steam; and the flow meter was the wrong kind, incorrectly installed. There are more reasons. You will never address them, but they are there.

Data: I see little evidence that it was fabricated or impossible.

Pressure/temperature: this has been answered countless (dozens?) of times, so need to grace this one again any time soon.

Flow meter: it was calibrated by an outside professional entity at the same flow rate used in the actual plant. When that evidence was presented to Murray, he balked.

Quote

The heat exchanger is the living end. The most absurd nonsense yet. You seriously, honestly believe the heat exchanger was real, yet no one could see it, no one saw the pipes, and Rossi he casually threw away $89 million just to reuse some old pipes. He didn't even bother to take photos of the equipment. He worked overnight to hide every trace of the machine, and remove the electric wires. You're good with that, right? You really, sincerely, believe that?

The heat exchanger is your last best hope. I honestly don't know how this one will play out. But I'll be right here to dispel the FUD until the end.

Quote from IH Fanboy

Fetish, cock,

Cock-and-bull. Not the obscene kind. Do not accuse me of obscenity or vulgarity.

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/cock-and-bull-story

Quote from IH Fanboy

Your very language reveals the doubt that you harbor.

Oh give us a break.

Quote from IH Fanboy

And no, he didn't ask whether it was a DN40. He stated it as if it were a fact, and once having built his straw man, he proceeded to topple it. And the lenr-forum erupted in adulation.

Penon told him it was DN40. Murray said, "The steam pressure was reported (for the entire period) to be 0 kPaG and the piping is DN40." Reported by Penon. Who else?

I expect it was DN40, but as I said, it makes no difference to the outcome.

You and Gluck erupted, maybe. You slew an imaginary dragon.

@Jed

No, as pointed out numerous times here, the "was reported" does not modify the last affirmative phrase "the piping is DN40." Basic grammar.