Rossi vs. Darden developments [CASE CLOSED]

Rossi as a scammer is a propagandistic interpretation. I see a close parallel between the bisiness approach of POTUS and Rossi. Nobody can rightly say that POTUS is honest but he is recognized as a first class businessman. You cannot trust anything that comes out of POTUS's mouth but most people put their lives and fortunes into his trust, he has the power to end all life on this world. The people who follow Rossi are doing the same thing. I am sure that POTUS has skinned many if not most competitors and bank officers to the tune of billions of dollars. I am amazed at all the crap that the POTUS is getting away with. Truly we are living in a new age. What is different with Rossi? Rossi is small potatoes compared to POTUS. POTUS takes people to court at the drop of a hat, so does Rossi. We are entering a new age of business ethics where winning is all that matters. All those who are castigating Rossi for his bisiness methods are old fashioned fudiddies. Get with it, get modern.

Those who support Rossi want to win; they want to win so much that they want to get tired of winning, they need to get red ball caps with the saying emblazoned on the front: Make LENR great again.

Potus is leveraged to the hilt, his worth is known to be far less than which is claimed, real estate finance is very murky when analysed for actual worth, potus has also been bankrupt on more than one occasion and he wouldn't be afloat if it weren't for his inherited wealth , not to mention the fact his business practices have on occasion been downright illegal, unethical and cost his investors vast sums of money. Potus is not really a successful businessman by any stretch of the imagination, his moneymaking abilities are largely as a conman and showman. The wheels are also starting to fall off his wagon as he realises that you can't run a country on the shady tactics he has gotten away with using in real estate. He notoriously overpays for property and if it weren't for his inheritance he would have been utterly bankrupt some time ago. Trump not worth anything like he claims, lost libel suit that claimed he is worth only 150 million, and that's about the worth of his branding so without the media fuelling him, he ain't worth shit. Mans a conman

[Insulting post edited by moderator]

Trump promised: “We're going to win so much. You're going to get tired of winning. you’re going to say, ‘Please Mr. President, I have a headache. Please, don't win so much. This is getting terrible.’ And I'm going to say, ‘No, we have to make America great again.’ You're gonna say, ‘Please.’ I said, ‘Nope, nope. We're gonna keep winning.’

Trump: 'I can't be doing so badly, because I'm president and you're not'.

Quote from maryyugo

What was Bernie Madoff's?

What about you "Mary" ?

You define yourself a pseudo skeptic. In reality by many years you are filling up any blog, forum and corner of the net with your hate against LENR. You "elevated" a part of Science (that is not your field) to a kind of religion and simply go on with your mission.

Now during an trial that is still open and were many clues indicate that IH has lied on many point you come out again saying that you were 100% right.

You don't need a Court, a Judge or a Jury because you incarnate all of them and anybody that does not agree with you is guilty.

Quote from maryyugo

he is embroiled in a completely idiotic but very expensive law suit which he can not win,

I hope you are right about that. I know little about lawsuits so I cannot judge. There are gullible juries out there. In the news I occasionally read about lawsuits that seem unjust.

I know a lot about the facts of the matter here and I am sure Rossi deserves to lose. But, on this subject, let me say that you have to be cautious about judging lawsuits. There are cases in which it seems a judgement was unfair or frivolous, or the outcome was a miscarriage of justice. The mass media has sometimes played up such stories. In some cases, if you examine the facts closely, you find that is not true. A dramatic example was "The McDonald's Hot Coffee Case." This was widely distorted in the mass media, making the plaintiff look bad. The plaintiff, S. Leibeck, was nearly killed by severe burns from dangerously hot coffee, through no fault of her own. Leading mass media pundits accused her of driving while drinking coffee, which was not at all what happened. See:

https://www.caoc.org/?pg=facts

Quote from maryyugo

There is NO credible scenario in which Rossi's original ecats did what he said

Interesting "Mary" . So you say that the test that IH has done independently before signing the contract were invalid.

You say that nobody in IH had any scientific culture and none of them had ever searched about Rossi history.

Otherwise, that what you say,

Quote from maryyugo

Nobody, no matter how gullible, who has an ounce of scientific education and good sense can look at the *longitudinal* history of Rossi's scam *and* his background of the previous twenty years and come away with that conclusion.

[That Rossi could be right.]

Note that what you say automatically (by logic) extends also to all investors who gave money to IH.

All of them were just "candid, innocent and fragile" people deceived by the "so evil to be evident to any normal person" Rossi ?

All of them have not checked anything or used the common sense before investing million of dollars ?

I think not. Any normal bank now-day make a lot of investigations about any normal person before landing even few k$,

So for sure IH has done his investigations.

I presume that IH and its investors are skilled businessmen that just want to make profit and profit and try to obtain a technology for just part of the price and not candid, innocent and fragile people.

Quote from Jack Cole

He does indeed work very hard at putting on a show, while enlisting others to do the hard work of making the props (reactors). He also works hard at putting on the show of working hard. It gives the intended image and makes the reader think, "surely he wouldn't work so hard for nothing would he?" That was one thought it elicited in me in the past. Eventually, I realized these kinds of thoughts are coming from a rational doubt.

And the adrenaline/motivation knowing you're going to get unequivocally nailed, and maybe sent to jail, if you don't rip out "equipment" like a madman before being exposed, begets sudden bursts of "productivity".

Quote from maryyugo

What was Bernie Madoff's?

I think Madoff must have been somewhat crazy. He was wealthy by legitimate means. He was widely respected and influential with inside connections, which meant he had many opportunities to become more wealthy. Yet, at some point, he launched a Ponzi scheme. Such schemes always fail in the end. It seems like a crazy, self-destructive thing to do. He must have realized he would end up in prison.

Rossi also strikes me as somewhat crazy. It is hard to judge.

Quote from axil

Nobody can rightly say that POTUS is honest but he is recognized as a first class businessman.

Not by me! For as long as I have known about him from mass media accounts, I have considered him a con-man and a thief. He has a reputation for stealing from vendors and business partners. He lost money in the casino business, of all things. Running a casino is like having a license to print money.

I did not pay much attention to Trump before last year, but I never thought of him as a first class businessman.

Quote from JedRothwell

There are gullible juries out there. In the news I occasionally read about lawsuits that seem unjust.

"Gullible" Juries out there ?

Did you understand that you are insulting the US Justice system ?

You "occasionally read" and then you know more than all a Jury ?

And seems that now there is a new tactic of IH probably suggested by their PR agency.

Like "Samson said, "Let me die with the Philistines!""

if IH (who probably knows that is going to lose) will lose,wants to destroy Rossi with itself.

If IH will lose "it will not be because it was wrong" but because the Jury was "gullible".

But that tactic doesn't work in business world.

The Rossi technology I am interested is the special localized counter-gravity water that flows without a pump or pressure from the condensers in Bologna (in October 2012), down to ground level, and then back up to about 0.7 m above the ground level before making the replenishment of the water storage tank. Uniquely, the water level in the condensers must also not fill up to the same level as where it enters the tank ( if they are to function).

Another great discovery made by Rossi !!

Am I right ?

Quote from Alan Smith

We have been over this one loads of times. It is at term that is certainly used by European power plant engineers etc as a way of describing the continuous output rating of a system (or systems) as distinct from its peak power capability.

Yes, I know. But it seems a little odd to use this to describe a laboratory experiment, the way Arata does. Plus, he does not use it to describe a discrete set of events occurring over 1 day, or 1 week, which is what I think the power company people do.

Quote from THHuxleynew

Is he a talented physicist? This is where I'd expect differences of opinion. He gets things wrong, over trivial matters of practical physics and engineering like how to measure power.

Yes, I strongly agree with your post, which I hadn't read until after my long post about Rossi's crappy engineering 'skills'.

The thing I have observed among the Rossites here is that they then shift to say, well OK, but Rossi is an eccentric genius inventor, just like previous eccentric geniuses who weren't necessarily good engineers.

But that also fails, because eccentric geniuses have extraordinary theoretical skills. But Rossi has no demonstrated theoretical skills. He recruits Cook or Gullström or Focardi or whomever to do the theoretical heavy lifting, and he gets 'cred' by having his name on a technical paper (which he could never write and probably doesn't understand).

Instead, this shows that Rossi has extraordinary PR skills and good Plausible Deniability (PD) skills for promoting himself and his scams.

Marianne Macey, wife of major Rossi supporter (in and around 2011) Michael Melich, makes this clear here:

Quote

If there was one thing Andrea Rossi didn’t need, it was a public relations firm. He knew how to do it himself.

JoNP is a classic example. (It's not peer reviewed. It's not even a Journal). It's got a lot of sock puppets. But it makes for good PR/PD.

He claimed that National Instruments was partnering to build the first 1MW E-Cat. This makes for good PR/PD. But it turns out that not only was National Instruments not building it, they didn't 'instrument' it - Rossi never used NI instruments.

He claimed he was working with NASA. This makes for good PR/PD. But he actually wasn't, though he did an experiment for NASA that was dangerous.

He asked for a price quote for 1Kg of Platinum sponge from Johnson Mathey which quoted > $1Million. This makes for good PR/PD. He claimed to IH that JMP was a subsidiary partner of Johnson Mathey. (And Johnson Mathey might even be willing to call him some kind of 'partner' if he had actually purchased it).

But he never actually bought that > $1Million 1Kg of Platinum sponge from Johnson Mathey because Rossi said it was 'too expensive'. That didn't prevent him from calling this price quote an 'invoice' (even though it wasn't) which is good for PR/PD, and using this to confuse Bass into believing he had actually ordered Platinum sponge from Johnson Mathey.

He bought some platinum covered filters instead and attempted to recover a tiny amount of Platinum from them, which is good for PR/PD because he can honestly say that he worked with Platinum 'catalysts' and endothermic reactions. But that tiny amount of Platinum could never actually be involved in an 'endothermic reaction' that could explain more than a few Watts, let alone 1MW continuous.

More recently he demanded that Bass find him tiny 5 MegaVolt transformers, and that he wanted a quote for 100,000 of them. This is good for PR/PD. This idea most likely involves using tiny (pencil sized?) Tesla coils to create exciting Quark X illusions (as Tesla himself was famous for). But alas, there is no known transformers with dielectric strength to achieve 5MV, so no supplier/no purchase.

And the Public Relations/Plausible Deniability (PR/PD) charade goes on and on and on and on....

Quote from guest111

And the adrenaline/motivation knowing you're going to get unequivocally nailed, and maybe sent to jail, if you don't rip out "equipment" like a madman before being exposed, begets sudden bursts of "productivity".

Or perhaps the adrenaline/motivation knowing you're going to get unequivocally exposed if you don't take all of your ongoing replication reactor experiments, shut them down, box them up, and close up shop like a madman before being exposed, begets sudden bursts of "productivity."

In my view, IH were no worse than hopelessly technologically naive, and the effects of that were compounded by an equally hopeless optimism. They should certainly have engaged more and better experts earlier - surely they must have wondered why LENR has always been so controversial.

I do a fair amount of technological evaluations for grant-giving organisations. Whilst I have never come across an out-and-out scammer, I have certainly come across a few peddling technologies that have already failed, or will never succeed. On occasion, I have been the only evaluator on the job with the specific specialised knowledge to be able to spot the flaws. OTOH, I would probably have missed other non-technical flaws in the proposals

The lesson to be learned is - ask the right blokes. BEFORE you hand out any money

Quote from sigmoidal

Yes, I strongly agree with your post, which I hadn't read until after my long post about Rossi's crappy engineering 'skills'.

The thing I have observed among the Rossites here is that they then shift to say, well OK, but Rossi is an eccentric genius inventor, just like previous eccentric geniuses who weren't necessarily good engineers.

But that also fails, because eccentric geniuses have extraordinary theoretical skills. But Rossi has no demonstrated theoretical skills. He recruits Cook or Gullström or Focardi or whomever to do the theoretical heavy lifting, and he gets 'cred' by having his name on a technical paper (which he could never write and probably doesn't understand).

Instead, this shows that Rossi has extraordinary PR skills and good Plausible Deniability (PD) skills for promoting himself and his scams.

Marianne Macey makes this clear here:

JoNP is a classic example. (It's not peer reviewed. It's not even a Journal). It's got a lot of sock puppets. But it makes for good PR/PD.

He claimed that National Instruments was partnering to build the first 1MW E-Cat. This makes for good PR/PD. But it turns out that not only was National Instruments not building it, they didn't 'instrument' it - Rossi never used NI instruments.

He claimed he was working with NASA. This makes for good PR/PD. But he actually wasn't, though he did an experiment for NASA that was dangerous.

He asked for a price quote for 1Kg of Platinum sponge from Johnson Mathey which quoted > $1Million. This makes for good PR/PD. He claimed to IH that JMP was a subsidiary partner of Johnson Mathey. (And Johnson Mathey might even be willing to call him some kind of 'partner' if he had actually purchased it).

But he never actually bought that > $1Million 1Kg of Platinum sponge from Johnson Mathey because Rossi said it was 'too expensive'. That didn't prevent him from calling this price quote an 'invoice' (even though it wasn't) which is good for PR/PD, and using this to confuse Bass into believing he had actually ordered Platinum sponge from Johnson Mathey.

He bought some platinum covered filters instead and attempted to recover a tiny amount of Platinum from them, which is good for PR/PD because he can honestly say that he worked with Platinum 'catalysts' and endothermic reactions. But that tiny amount of Platinum could never actually be involved in an 'endothermic reaction' that could explain more than a few Watts, let alone 1MW continuous.

More recently he demanded that Bass find him tiny 5 MegaVolt transformers, and that he wanted a quote for 100,000 of them. This is good for PR/PD. This idea most likely involves using tiny (pencil sized?) Tesla coils to create exciting Quark X illusions (as Tesla himself was famous for). But alas, there is no known transformers with dielectric strength to achieve 5MV, so no supplier/no purchase.

And the Public Relations/Plausible Deniability (PR/PD) charade goes on and on and on and on....

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And the graphene. Don't forget the graphene. Very scientific and cutting edge, is graphene

Quote from IH Fanboy

Or perhaps the adrenaline/motivation knowing you're going to get unequivocally exposed if you don't take all of your ongoing replication reactor experiments, shut them down, box them up, and close up shop like a madman before being exposed, begets sudden bursts of "productivity."

I bet that IH knows where the boxes are, what is in them, and can show them to the Court if neccesary. Gosh, they probably even have photos and videos featuring the contents, and gigabytes of data from the various reactor experiments.