Rossi vs. Darden developments [CASE CLOSED]

@Jed,

Glad to you see you are taking a peek now and again.

I think neither IH nor Rossi want a do-over. Rossi apparently wants out of a (very bad) contract. And IH apparently wants to wash their hands of Rossi altogether. And I really think it is best for all parties that there be a break up anyway. This Humpty can never be put back together again.

Quote from IH Fanboy

Rossi apparently wants out of a (very bad) contract.

My guess is that Rossi wants out of the contract with IH without having to give back the 10.5 million dollars or incidental expenses incurred in Doral. I doubt that will get to settlement, but I could be wrong.

Quote from IH Fanboy

I think neither IH nor Rossi want a do-over. Rossi apparently wants out of a (very bad) contract. And IH apparently wants to wash their hands of Rossi altogether. And I really think it is best for all parties that there be a break up anyway. This Humpty can never be put back together again.

Yes, indeed, he want's out of a a contract that handed him $10.5 million for nothing; most sane con-men would take such money and run. But not Rossi, he is apparently so deluded in his mastery, and past history of success, of snake-oil-salesmanship as to belie that he can get away with not only the $10.5M, but fleece additional 10's of millions. Likely he overplayed his hand this time 'round.

It is simply a personal guess of mine, but I think Rossi wants out of the contract, period. If I had a Quark X technology, and it worked as claimed, I would gladly pay $10.5 to absolve myself of IH and that contract.

IHFB,

Mighty big "IF" there amigo.

Rossi wants out but clearly wants to keep the 10 million

Quote from Eric Walker

My guess is that Rossi wants out of the contract with IH without having to give back the 10.5 million dollars or incidental expenses incurred in Doral. I doubt that will get to settlement, but I could be wrong.

That's my guess too.

And I could imagine that this plan could bear fruits, wouldn't there be an internet community which keeps an close eye on this case - watching what Rossi does, and what IH does.

I am sure IH managers know that they have a the responsibility to protect their investors from beeing defrauded, and can not just use "others people money" to pay themself out of a bad deal.

If they would take the easy path and just pay (with the investors money) Rossi for his shenanigans, they would risk legal consequences.

Quote from IH Fanboy

I think neither IH nor Rossi want a do-over. Rossi apparently wants out of a (very bad) contract. And IH apparently wants to wash their hands of Rossi altogether. And I really think it is best for all parties that there be a break up anyway. This Humpty can never be put back together again.

If I had a Quark X technology, and it worked as claimed, I would gladly pay $10.5 to absolve myself of IH and that contract.

That is of course mostly true. As the transcript shows IH would be happy to run the plant under their control - just think how much more information they could get about which error modes appear! Rossi, it seems, not happy with that.

IH have learnt their lesson and certainly want nothing now to do with Rossi. From Rossi's POV IH have become one of the string of partners who are now snakes trying to cheat him, in a classic Rossi inversion of roles.

The idea that Rossi wants out from the contract because he has a new better working device is laughable. There is nothing to stop him commercialising that device on his own terms over half of the world. IH's only role is to help him secure the IP, and have first refusal on any deal - and no need for Rossi to offer anyone a deal that would allow them to sit on commercialisation, so no downside. Funny how Rossi invented a new, better, device at about the time IH found out that his e-cat did not work. We have now, according to Rossi's story, a string of e-cats (low temperature, HT1, HT2) abandoned apparently worth so little, in spite of being a revolutionary new power source independently tested to work very well, that no-one uses them for anything. The QuarkX is more expensive (if rumours of ruby are true, and in any case due to smaller power) and less effective at high power heat generation, than these earlier and now abandoned devices.

It makes no sense...

Unless you realise what is revolutionary about the QuarkX. Rossi has, as he described in the Gulstromm paper, gone to a whole new sophistication is his measurement of power out. He manages to overestimate this by a factor of around 1000, far in excess of anything previously achieved, and the IP for this new measurement is completely new, though you can see germs of the idea in his early work with alumina HT-2.

In HT-2 he was limited, using emissivity-based measurement, to COP of less than 10. For Rossi, higher COP is a goal, even though it might seem that in practical engineering terms COP 10 is absolutely as good as anything, given heat in and heat out, and in fact COP=2 could be turned into COP=10.

For Rossi, he has a devoted fan-base all valuing higher COP. the higher the better. So this matters. The outstanding results from QuarkX come from two clever innovations:

(1) Make the reactor body transparent

(2) Make the heat source fluorescent plasma

These two innovations help increase COP as follows:

The reactor body will stay cool, but can in Rossi-COP calculations be assumed the same temperature as the inner plasma. since the reactor body surface area can be much larger (maybe 10X) the plasma surface area this is an uplift of 10X.

The fluorescent plasma will emit radiation in one or more sharp spectral lines, unlike black bodies which emit over a broad spectrum. If we assume the plasma emits radiation as a black body we can estimate its temperature by finding the largest spectral line and assuming that corresponds to the peak of the planck curve. From that the temperature can be calculated. then, the total radiated power can be estimated as if it were a black body radiating.

The effect is to amplify the radiated power by a factor of perhaps 100, from the extra assumed Planck radiation which in the monochromatic fluorescent source is absent.

I feel this is truly Rossi's masterpiece (and I mean it). He has written it up with a PhD student who does not publicly quarrel with the write-up, so it clearly will work well for a new generation of independent testers.

As a great man once said:

"There should be a word for guessing that consistently vilefies.

...Guevilling?"

Quote from sigmoidal

Thank you for confirming. It's especially helpful given that you are native Italian. I had made this point earlier about Rossi. It was based on a Milan student I met with a Dottore Magistrale degree (from the 'old regulations' that were in place in 1975 when Rossi graduated under the Vecchio Ordinamento ) who told me that he never refers to his Italian degree as a Masters, because it's really more equivalent to a U.S. bachelor's degree (even though it's a five year degree with a thesis) in terms of the amount of work and rigor.

[...]

ditto, ditto...

[...]

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With that I must disagree. The new university system is now similar to the US with a bachelor and a master's degree in sequence. By no means the old system was less rigorous or easier. Universities now classify the previous degrees as a bachelor's or a master's equivalent based on their length and content. So if Rossi is a Dottore Magistrale you may well consider him a M.Sc.

Then in terms of quality and rigour one can have any opinion. When I studied engineering the American textbooks looked funny to me with lots of pictures and little theory. Italian texts in fundamental physics and maths were ugly and boring but much tougher. And when we wanted to challenge our skills with University colleagues we went to the Russian association library where books in physics and maths had the toughest exercises and problems ever...

On another note, to add to your list of dittos, one that amuses me is use of the (?) acronym AEG when referring to Ampenergo, just in order to impress whoever pays little attention with the resounding name of a historical German company (Allgemeine Elektricitats Gesellschaft) that -among else- built nuclear plants in Germany.

Quote from andrea.s

With that I must disagree. The new university system is now similar to the US with a bachelor and a master's degree in sequence. By no means the old system was less rigorous or easier. Universities now classify the previous degrees as a bachelor's or a master's equivalent based on their length and content. So if Rossi is a Dottore Magistrale you may well consider him a M.Sc.

Well, in Rossi's case, not a M.Sc in any case, because his course of study was philosophy (even if philosophy of science), so in the US, this would be a Master of Arts or M.A. degree (given the way we divide the Arts and Sciences - for example, Mathematics is an 'Art' as is Philosophy). M.Sc only applies to some applied sciences, though this is also variable. For example, a Masters in Engineering is usually M.Eng, but in some schools it's M.Sc.

In any case, nobody in the U.S. uses the term 'Master' for people who have Master's degrees when addressing them (and of course we don't address people with Bachelor's degrees as Bachelor's). There is no special word for addressing someone who has completed either degree.

So in your experience in Italy, is there any specific way of addressing a person who has completed at Dottore Magistrale degree, or is that not done?

Stated differently, do Italians ever use the term 'Dottore' in addressing a person with a Dottore Magistrale degree in philosophy?

Quote from Alan Smith

Not so. That's why Rossi is using Sapphire, and why Q-X only has a 10% duty cycle without forced cooling. Whether it works as claimed or not, your assumption about the surface temperature is (probably) a wrong guess..

No its not! This is Rossi - chance he would miss a X10 on COP that requires real effort to miss (like aligning absorption lines of container to emission lines of plasma) - about zero! Notice how no-one can tell how much of radiated energy is absorbed by the container. And Rossi does not do controls. Actually in this case a control is quite difficult. But - even if it were all absorbed - the container temperature would not be anything like the radiation fake-black-body temperature - because the effective temperature is so much lower.

Quote from sigmoidal

[...] in the US, this would be a Master of Arts or M.A. degree

[...]

In any case, nobody in the U.S. uses the term 'Master' for people who have Master's degrees when addressing them (and of course we don't address people with Bachelor's degrees as Bachelor's). There is no special word for addressing someone who has completed either degree.

So in your experience in Italy, is there any specific way of addressing a person who has completed at Dottore Magistrale degree, or is that not done?

Do you ever use the term 'Dottore' in addressing a person with a Dottore Magistrale degree in philosophy?

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Of course M.A. not M.Sc. , my mistake.

Yes it is common although old-styled to call Dottore, and address as Dr. Someone in writing, someone with whatever university degree.

That may explain why PhDs aren't that popular here. All those years and your title doesn't show up visibly to your neighbors and relatives unless you brag for it.

Italians are traditionally obsessed with titles, so we call people Avvocato (Lawyer) Ingegnere (Engineer) etc. which probably used to sound respectful a century ago.

I think I already mentioned a while ago that it is typical of illegal parking valets to call you Dottore in mocking reverence without caring to check your references. This applies to native Italians, whereas immigrants (the majority nowadays) use "capo" I.e. "boss" which is also pretty good for the ego.

Quote from Henry

Yes, two.

Two ? Really ? you should be a big boss in Science ! And still you have time and will to type here ?

Quote from Shane D.

I think IH would have written off the $10m and let him go his merry way, probably holding onto the IP rights...just in case.

Yes sure that is exactly what IH hoped, to take the IP for just 10% of the price.

They had had already done their tests and had all the partial report from Penon (without rising any problem) so why not try not to pay ?

A good question for them (IH) would be:

Where is all the money they collected from investors now ?

Quote from Wyttenbach

f the machine is real, Rossi has to do the test over from scratch with proper instruments and techniques . . .

@JED: That's the way to go!

But guess what? IH doesn't like this idea.

You are wrong about that. They would love to see that. It would be worth hundreds of billions of dollars to them. They spent years of effort and millions of dollars trying to make it work. You seem to believe some sort of wacky conspiracy theory that they spent all this money and time hoping it would not work. If they didn't want it work, they could have just left it alone and Rossi would soon disappear. No one else was going to fund him.