If an e-cat is tested by a reputable independent entity in a transparent manner using their own methods, equipment, and protocols and the results verified by peer review, I would be convinced that it was the real deal. There is nothing remotely of the kind that has occurred to date.
Rossi vs. Darden developments [CASE CLOSED]
- barty
- Closed
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Levi's original test with no phase change is satisfactorily explained
I agree that Ferrara has stood up to the scrutiny so far. This far past the test though, no way to really dig any deeper into it. Barring Levi and team speaking up finally, that one will have to go down as a big ? mark. That is about as good as it gets for Rossi I am afraid. His LENR career is checkered with those ?'s , yet not one verifiable success, where the testers own up to their work, and face the music afterwards.
Also. the Ferrara COP was only 3...right? IH signed up for anything 4, or over. In addition, it had to be so reliable as to run 350 days out of 400 at that COP. So per the agreement, even were Rossi to have a little something...which many of us here believe, he is a few COP's short of what he promised IH. Close, but no cigar!
That reminds me of the "GPT". Don't you find it odd, that after Rossi saying for 6 years, that his Ecat ran at COP 6, and Levi and team concluded COP 3 for their 2 tests, then out of the blue his 1MW gets >COP 50 at Doral?
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If an e-cat is tested by a reputable independent entity in a transparent manner using their own methods, equipment, and protocols and the results verified by peer review, I would be convinced that it was the real deal. There is nothing remotely of the kind that has occurred to date.
MFMP is gearing up to do this with me356's device. Like I said above, this will cause ripples throughout the community, whether they confirm it or not. And the peer review will be by the crowd. You won't get peer review from the traditional scientific community because they simply refuse to do it.
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Parkhomov's experiments are replicated by another team.
Parkhomov's experiments were all flawed (the first set had water splashes observed, the second set had gap and weird photoshopped data). But a normal well-conducted experiment (say one that MFMP agreed was definite) with the same claimed results would convince me.
MFMP demonstrates that me356 has what he claims.
Yes, that would convince me. I'll bet anyone here able to spare the cash and happy to establish suitable terms $1000 it will not happen. I'd be happy to lose.
Gullström's collaboration with Rossi is shown to be non-farcical.
Something of a problem here. The description in the paper of how the output, and the input, power was calculated is farcical already. Any repetition using same method would overestimate COP by 3 or more OOMs. You need a completely different method of calorimetry. In any case what does it mean for the collaboration to be non-farcical? Sounds to me like the sort of flawed subjective confirmation bias that Rossi has relied on throughout this story.
Levi's original test with no phase change is replicated by another team.
Levi reported I think only 3 results from that test. Two temperatures and one flowrate. And the flowrate was unfeasibly large. Replication would be equally meaningless. However a careful similar check with reliable calorimetry, e.g. bucket and temperature, nothing difficult, and large enough temperature difference to make exact temperatures irrelevant (say 50C) would do the trick. Heck, that would be a lot easier, and require less equipment, then the test actually conducted.
Skeptics are easy to convince, because they want facts. IHFB in this case is impossible to convince, he requires a historical badly reported experiment conducted only be Levi and Rossi to be proven false? How is that going to work? Time machine?
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If an e-cat is tested by a reputable independent entity in a transparent manner using their own methods, equipment, and protocols and the results verified by peer review,
Let me suggest a modification. Not "their own methods" but rather they should use: industry standard methods spelled out the ASME and incorporated in Florida state regulations and the regulations of all other states. These methods, and the instruments, configurations and so on, were first developed and adapted as industry standards in 1880. They have been updated and improved since then. There is no doubt they work. They could easily prove any of the COPs that Rossi has claimed.
These are the kinds of methods Smith referred to in his deposition.
There different methods for hot water and steam, and for different sized boilers.
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I believe he is lying and that he is only admitting to the JMP situation because he has no choice. But twisting it by claiming that IH knew about it all along.
I guess you are right here - and if I'm not wrong with my suspicion that the this entry in the Plaintiff Exhibit list...
Quote5/22/2016
Blogging communications Dewey Weaver and Andrea Rossi to Rigel
refers to this comment ...
Rigel - sorry that you got all riled up. Rossi and his attorney introduced a fake "customer" into the equation that didn't pass the smell test from the beginning. They had to sign contracts that accounted for their deception up front and will be held accountable. Maybe they were making nano-Ni sponges which don't need loading dock activity and used Rossi's robotic army. That is the only way to explain the lack of activity for JM Products during the 350 day test. Oh wait, there were no robots.... In addition, if Rossi's machine was working during that same time, do you wonder where all that extra heat went when nobody was working on the customer side? (which was most of the time based on information that is presently in the hands of the good guys).
then Rossi is grasping for straws, in case that he believes that a statement such as...
"didn't pass the smell test from the beginning"
... is sufficient to assert that IH knew from the first day on all about the JMP ruse, and accepted this situation.
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If an e-cat is tested by a reputable independent entity in a transparent manner using their own methods, equipment, and protocols and the results verified by peer review, I would be convinced that it was the real deal. There is nothing remotely of the kind that has occurred to date.
You will never see this kind of tests including the modification suggested by Jed. Seven years or more of flaw and fake tests are enough in order to realize that it doesn't work.
Now Rossi is too busy to chatter with his italian supporters about the red colour of QuarkX.
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If an e-cat is tested by a reputable independent entity in a transparent manner using their own methods, equipment, and protocols and the results verified by peer review,
I think that you would encounter at least 2 problems there. Firstly, who would be accepted as 'independent'? Someone inside the field already? Finding someone outside it might be difficult. And it seems that UL and the like won't work in the 'overunity' field. The other big problem is peer review. If you mean peer review and publication in (say) 'Nature'....forget it. If you mean something else, what would that be?
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Trollish lie along with the rest of your posts.
My was not a lie. I know and esteem Jed from a long long time and I appreciate his activity for LENR as a librarian.
But sometimes I find that some of post have not much sense.
And Who is a troll here ? Who gently and with some humor points out that a post is nonsense or who constantly insult others.
This place is full of people devoted to IH, or that confuse part of Science with a Religion, that diffuse only hate and false or distorded information.
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You will never see this kind of tests including the modification suggested by Jed. Seven years or more of flaw and fake tests are enough in order to realize that it doesn't work.
I esteem Jed but he is not a scientist.
Reading carefully among the papers (also the ones collected by Jed) I have realized that many of the critics to the test are ill formed and probably forged for the purpose to discredit Rossi.
The fact that Rossi is the only LENR experimenter that has developed a technology with commercial value is probably one good motivation.
Rossi has to fight not only with the usual "science Talibans" who fight a Holy War (like a Jihad) against LENR in general, but also a group of LENR businessmen, that have not collected any real result till now.
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Rossi has to fight not only with the usual "science Talibans" who fight a Holy War (like a Jihad) against LENR in general, but also a group of LENR businessmen, that have not collected any real result till now.
Rossi choiced them, like in past he selected the previous fake company Defkalion.
Anyway after a lot of years of chatter unreliable results can't be justified still invoking conspiracy theory. -
IH knew from the first day on all about the JMP ruse, and accepted this situation
Of course IH was aware of everything from the start. Companies also do make investigations.
In fact there was a long story pro but also against (see articles by Krivit and others ) Rossi in the net much before Darden met Rossi.
They can't say they were not knowing what they ware doing.
That why I'm convinced that they ware only wanting to rise founds and close the business telling the investors that the reactor was not working.
Rise about 250M$ ..... pay to Rossi about 11M$ close everything and you get a net cash of 239M$...... not bad, legal, and also probably without taxes.
So when Rossi demonstrated that the reactor was working (remember that IH have not rose any problem during the 1yr test when was rising money) that the reactor was working there was the big surprise.
Read also the story of Darden and how many start up business he has closed...... Probably it was not the first time he was trying the trick.
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Oh well, like many of us have said for the past year, the court system is a crap shoot. Rossi knew that going into this agreement with IH from the beginning, and planned accordingly. As disgusting as it is to accept, he may walk away with a settlement.
So....let me try to understand your thought..... Do you really think that Rossi began such an expensive legal fight to pursue a plan conceived when he met IH for the first time (or soon after) and that this plan was founded on the certainty that the American court system is populated by idiots? You really have a diabolic mind..... such an incredible fantasy, wasted for a simple forum!
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276-05 is an interesting breakdown of IH's corporate structure and holdings spanning 2012-2014, just prior to Woodford's investment. Page 21 of 54 is a breakdown of investments until that point, showing that by 2014, they had invested $332,000 in "New Heat" which is the company they set up to own their investments in Brillouin. So basically this shows that by the end of 2014, they had invested $332,000 in Brillouin. Now we know what stake they have (or had as of a few years ago) in Brillouin.
A huge amount indeed..... I bet that this investment has been accompanied by the passage of many information that IH has taken directly from Rossi's technology.
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So they were in this difficult position, where they had suspicions on one hand, but they also had the Swedes and the possibility that Rossi was holding back, on the other. With what they felt was their call to duty to get to the bottom of this for the good of the planet, they chose the only option they thought best, and that was to ride it out, and let Rossi be Rossi. That may cost them dearly.
Oh my God..... Do you really think that VC people could move even just a finger "for the good of the planet"? They didn't tell explicitly and in a timely manner that they did not consider the Doral test as the GPT because they did not want Rossi to stop the test before the result was clear but they had never been inclined to pay him.
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Lots of comments on my criteria for being convinced about the e-cat.
To Jed: by "their own methods", I meant not using some ridiculous measurement forced on them by Rossi. Of course a reputable entity would use standard, well-accepted methodologies.
To Alan: my idea of a reputable, independent entity would be something like NREL, NIST, or comparable European laboratories. You know, someplace respected as an authority in measurements. Who knows? Maybe even someone who knows about nuclear science and calorimetry? And if Rossi's device (which his worshippers believe is striking terror in the hearts of all energy executives worldwide) were offered up for testing to one of these places, you had better believe that somebody would do it. You really think nobody would volunteer? After all, all it takes is one of the 18,000 scientists at NASA to say something positive about LENR and fans run around the Internet claiming "NASA believes in LENR". Furthermore, if there was a high-profile test of Rossi's gadget at a prestigious laboratory by renowned scientists (as opposed to coffee-brewing experts who teach computer programming), peer review would be a no-brainer.
The time has long since passed for making lame excuses and entertaining conspiracy theories for why this thing hasn't been proven to work. Occam's Razor should be used liberally here: the e-cat hasn't been proven to work because it doesn't work. Whether LENR in general is real or not is not a pertinent question.
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Maybe even someone who knows about nuclear science and calorimetry?
Just a small point. Knowledge of nuclear science would have absolutely no utility here. The testing procedure is for a black box that has electricity in and more heat than expected out. Measurement of ionising radiation generated etc is pointless, since none is in practice ever seen beyond normal experimental issues, and irrelevant since whether or not there is ionising radiation does not change the operation (or non-operation) of this box.
In any case if there is any nuclear physics involved in such a box it is not standard nuclear physics and thus I can't see a nuclear physicist would be of any help...
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THH, point taken. Unless the thing works - i.e., it produces energy in a way that is not commensurate with known devices - then it doesn't much matter what is going on in the black box. On the other hand, if it did actually work, I would imagine that there would be a great deal of interest in whether there is radiation of any kind and so forth. In any case, we can do just fine with a calorimetry expert who doesn't know a boson from a bozo.
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There's another thing that would be interesting, although not necessarily in the me356 blackbox test: if nuclear activity could be reliably called up on demand, even if there was no overunity heat, this would be remarkable as well. Assessing this would require expertise in experimental physics rather than calorimetry, of course.
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This is an old excuse Alan, yes NIST or equivalent European laboratories of Metrology are completely adequate like it happens for many other industry measurement.
As TTH said nothing of nuclear is required, just calorimetry at black box level but I suspect that as usual the problem is the Rossi's fear to be exposed with hand in the cookie jar, not the place where to do the test.
